Campaign- battles are always 1 vs Many enemies

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

I don't know what I am doing wrong, or how it works, but...

Even if I put 4 ships on each port, all the battles are like: (Germany: 1 Battleship, GB: 8 ships)

I don't really know what to do, I try to group them so that they stick together but they are always facing enemy fleets alone... am I missing something, or this is random?

[akd]

I think if you put ships on Sea Control they are much more likely to go out raiding or patrolling on their own.  I only put fast CLs and CAs on sea control and have not had this happen to me, although I've had several 1 enemy vs. many of mine battles.

[Drenzul]

Do you only have BBs? 

If so they are going to get ambushed by torp-boats more often. 
I assume this is the 'ambush' scenario where the 8 attackers are destroyers, in which case its kinda
expected if the enemy have a lot of TB/destroyers and you have mostly BBs.

[Littorio]

56 minutes ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

I don't know what I am doing wrong, or how it works, but...

Even if I put 4 ships on each port, all the battles are like: (Germany: 1 Battleship, GB: 8 ships)

I don't really know what to do, I try to group them so that they stick together but they are always facing enemy fleets alone... am I missing something, or this is random?

More ships on Sea Control, and check your ports often. The game shuffles your ships around (especially as Germany) and often moves them on returning from a battle. So they don't always go back to where you had them. Thus you might think they are going back to say, Emden, when in reality they go back to Pillau. I can't wait for this to be changed in an update.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Littorio

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

13 hours ago, Littorio said:

More ships on Sea Control, and check your ports often. The game shuffles your ships around (especially as Germany) and often moves them on returning from a battle. So they don't always go back to where you had them. Thus you might think they are going back to say, Emden, when in reality they go back to Pillau. I can't wait for this to be changed in an update.

 

I've done this...

It's got to a point where I have had 10 ships, distributed in two ports (5 and 5), all in sea control... and the battles are still 1 ship of mine VS 10 enemy ships... it's driving me crazy!

 

14 hours ago, Drenzul said:

Do you only have BBs? 

If so they are going to get ambushed by torp-boats more often. 
I assume this is the 'ambush' scenario where the 8 attackers are destroyers, in which case its kinda
expected if the enemy have a lot of TB/destroyers and you have mostly BBs.

 

Yeah, the weight limit for lighter vessels is basically bugged... for example Light Cruisers have a 2,500 ton limit yet it weights 2,700 ton by default xD So I am trying to just make multi-purpose Battleships... which would fare better if they didn't have to fight 10 ships alone for some reason...

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

This is what I mean.

 

ALL my ships in sea control in the same port... yet I keep getting into battles with just one ship.

 

[akd]

5 minutes ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

ALL my ships in sea control in the same port... yet I keep getting into battles with just one ship.

I don't think Sea Control is a task for BB fleets in game terms.  You are probably telling all your BBs to go out and raid or patrol individually.

Edited December 30, 2021 by akd

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

24 minutes ago, akd said:

I don't think Sea Control is a task for BB fleets in game terms.  You are probably telling all your BBs to go out and raid or patrol individually.

 

Why individually? I thought you could make squadrons by grouping them in ports... yet it doesn't seem to matter... also, I only set them in Sea Control now as someone above recommended it, but nothing has really changed...

 

I have, at last, got a battle where, instead of just 1 ship, I had 2.. I ALMOST won, my Battleships broke havoc. That's why I wanted to group them in squadrons of 3; because I know 3 of my Battleships would fare well enough against anything thrown at them... but if I can't control the fleets and the number of ships I launch into battle is random and mostly 1, it's a pointless effort.

 

[akd]

3 minutes ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

 I only set them in Sea Control now as someone above recommended it, but nothing has really changed...

Do you think, maybe, they were wrong?

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Just now, akd said:

Do you think, maybe, they were wrong?

 

All I know is that, no matter if they are in Sea Control or not, nothing really changes

[akd]

Then likely the issue is only having BBs.  This probably pulls a BB where normally it would pull a cruiser.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

1 minute ago, akd said:

Then likely the issue is only having BBs.  This probably pulls a BB where normally it would pull a cruiser.

 

But why aren't the BBs sticking together? How can I set them in the same squadron...? Ports don't seem to do the job.

 

I just got another match with 2 BBs, and they are doing their job pretty well... but I would really like to set the squadrons and for it not to be completely random generated. I am sure with 3 of these BBs per squadron I would never lose...

[akd]

Likely because fleet-type battles are "rolled" relatively rarely, and groups of BBs are not suitable for the more common mission types that are generated.  If you are saying that if you only build BBs then you should only get full fleet battles, well I'm not sure that makes sense.  You really should immediately lose the campaign do to inability to properly project power and protect own coasts.

Edited December 30, 2021 by akd

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

I think I now understand how matches are set up; by tonnage

 

So perhaps my fleet is adapted in tonnage to the enemy's fleet, and, as I am only building Battleships, only the right amount go into battle before surpassing the enemy's tonnage. Is it possible?

 

For example: if the enemy fleet is 12,000 tons, and each of my ships is 9,000 tons, I will only have one ship in the battle, as otherwise itwould be 18,000 tons vs 12,000 tons. And that's why I should have smaller ships too to "fill" those voids.

 

I just had a really nice match: 3 of my BBs against 2 BBs, 1 CA and 2 CLs... now THAT was a fun battle!

Edited December 30, 2021 by SPANISH_AVENGER

[Littorio]

2 hours ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

 

Why individually? I thought you could make squadrons by grouping them in ports... yet it doesn't seem to matter... also, I only set them in Sea Control now as someone above recommended it, but nothing has really changed...

 

I have, at last, got a battle where, instead of just 1 ship, I had 2.. I ALMOST won, my Battleships broke havoc. That's why I wanted to group them in squadrons of 3; because I know 3 of my Battleships would fare well enough against anything thrown at them... but if I can't control the fleets and the number of ships I launch into battle is random and mostly 1, it's a pointless effort.

 

 

There's your problem, all BBs.

 

2 hours ago, akd said:

Do you think, maybe, they were wrong?

 

I didn't know he had only BBs and assumed a balanced fleet.

 

2 hours ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

I think I now understand how matches are set up; by tonnage

 

So perhaps my fleet is adapted in tonnage to the enemy's fleet, and, as I am only building Battleships, only the right amount go into battle before surpassing the enemy's tonnage. Is it possible?

 

For example: if the enemy fleet is 12,000 tons, and each of my ships is 9,000 tons, I will only have one ship in the battle, as otherwise itwould be 18,000 tons vs 12,000 tons. And that's why I should have smaller ships too to "fill" those voids.

 

I just had a really nice match: 3 of my BBs against 2 BBs, 1 CA and 2 CLs... now THAT was a fun battle!

 

I don't know if it's even that complex. Right now fleet encounters are pretty barebones, and the logic behind it is opaque. Bottom line - field a mixed bunch of ships of varying classes until they get around to making things more visible and allow you to assign patrol sectors and create actual task forces that operate together.

[Drenzul]

14 hours ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

 

But why aren't the BBs sticking together? How can I set them in the same squadron...? Ports don't seem to do the job.

 

I just got another match with 2 BBs, and they are doing their job pretty well... but I would really like to set the squadrons and for it not to be completely random generated. I am sure with 3 of these BBs per squadron I would never lose...

They can't stick together. 

You basically have so few ships cos they are all BBs, they having to split up to try and cover your transports.

 

14 hours ago, SPANISH_AVENGER said:

I think I now understand how matches are set up; by tonnage

 

So perhaps my fleet is adapted in tonnage to the enemy's fleet, and, as I am only building Battleships, only the right amount go into battle before surpassing the enemy's tonnage. Is it possible?

 

For example: if the enemy fleet is 12,000 tons, and each of my ships is 9,000 tons, I will only have one ship in the battle, as otherwise itwould be 18,000 tons vs 12,000 tons. And that's why I should have smaller ships too to "fill" those voids.

 

I just had a really nice match: 3 of my BBs against 2 BBs, 1 CA and 2 CLs... now THAT was a fun battle!

You see the AI is likely trying to generate battles for you. 
As you have only BBs it has only 3 choices:
Battle
Duel
Ambush

I'd imagine as the enemy has much faster TBs than your BBs, the game is basically saying well you are getting ambushed a lot due to lack of small ships to scout/protect your BBs. Match ups seems to be by ship class regardless of the ship's tonnage.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

21 hours ago, Drenzul said:

They can't stick together. 

You basically have so few ships cos they are all BBs, they having to split up to try and cover your transports.

 

You see the AI is likely trying to generate battles for you. 
As you have only BBs it has only 3 choices:
Battle
Duel
Ambush

I'd imagine as the enemy has much faster TBs than your BBs, the game is basically saying well you are getting ambushed a lot due to lack of small ships to scout/protect your BBs. Match ups seems to be by ship class regardless of the ship's tonnage.

 

Ever since I started doing Armored and Heavy Cruisers, I'm getting more battles where I have more than 1 ship on my side, and the tonnage is always similar to the enemy fleet one, so I am now 90% sure it's done by tonnage.

 

But the enemy fleets are still mostly composed of Torpedo Boats... every time... the campaign feels more like Ultimate Admiral: Torpedo Boats than anything else xD

 

That being said, I am still loving the campaign, even with all the flaws expected from its current early state (specially regarding how extremely difficult it is to win, even if you win every battle, and some AI issues).

Edited January 1, 2022 by SPANISH_AVENGER

[Bishop120]

So the battle generator basically takes your fleet and tries to match it up to something comparable on the opponents side and against one of the Naval Academy type missions.  If you make fleets of only battleships it will do ambush missions where you are ambushed by the destroyers/torpedo boats.  You need a mix of ships inorder to get a mix of battles.  Does it make sense?  No.. unfortunately its where the game is at right now.  I used to try to do something similar to you and make my own ships for the campaign.. I could absolutely dominate with a ton of CA ships as they were thrown into a ton of different mission types.  Just had to hope that you got the battles quickly or the enemy would out produce me and then blockade me with their superior numbers.  Also.. how to avoid blockade.. it appears that power projection takes the range of your ships into account.. longer ranges adds more power projection.  Anyways.. mix up your fleet with a few more ship sizes and you will get different missions/battles.

[Kraut]

My thoughts on the matter judging by my experience of some campaigns as Germany from 1890-1940 with mixed and single-typ fleets:

Im also inclined to say that Battles are set up by tonnage with a margin. Wich is a bit stupid, cause the British Fleet cant play out its numerical advantage in battles as it would ( and did in reality).

The Only Difference between "In Beeing" and "Sea Control" seems to me that ships with "in beeing" dont hunt down enemy convoys. Every other Mission will also trigger for "In Beeing" Ships.... Wich is kinda odd... Since "in Beeing" means the Fleet stays at home and waits for an oppurtinity for a decisive battle or when it has to defend... its Ports! for example.

So an Ambush or a 1vs1 battle in the middle of nowhere should be out of question for "in beeing" ships, but thats not the case atm.

For Ambushes im pretty sure that the speed of the ship plays an important role. Since the the Spanisch_Avanger was or is playing a 1890 campaign, his BBs are much slower than the enemy´s TBs, wich results in BBs caught of guard.

I finished a 1910 campaign(wich surprisingly lasted 1-2 years instead of some month) recently with playing BC/CL only, and my BCs were never caught in an Ambush, only during the new "Defend ur Coast against a larger Group of Enemies" Mission. My Ships had a maxium speed of 28 Knots and their DDs were not really faster than that, if at all.

Same goes for my current campaign i started especially to get data for the questions of this thread. 

I have choosen the 1930 start and im playing BBs only. All my BBs ( i have 3 types) can do a max speed of 30.3 Knots. The British Destroyer design is also limited to 30 Knots.

The fastest thing in the Royal Navy are their BC with ridiculously high 41 Knots... but thats another issue. Anyway, not far into the campaign while im writing here, but so far no Ambushes.

An easy negative-test of my setup would be a 1930 start with only slow BBs, so even the stupid AI can come up with a DD that is actually faster than a BB.

Maybe i just cant remember ambushes from my previous campaigns with BBs/BCs only, but its not hard to test, so we will soon know for .. pretty sure.

The Number of ships could or probably will come into play for the Number of transports sunk without Battles per Month, so having only a few BBs / ships could lead to a higher loss of Transports during a campaign. But apart from that u dont need mixed up fleets at all.

Every Campaign is winneable because of the Battle Creator with BBs / BCs only,  the later available Large Cruiser is very strong. Even the 1890 one, also it is the hardest since the hulls are and look like shit and the BBs are so slow compared to all other ships.

Why? Cause the Battle Creator, so it seems to me, tries to create... balanced fleets! who could have thought! Within a Tonnage Limit that is defined per Mission Type and what not. So, since the AI always has mixed up fleets, they will always spawn mixed fleets, resulting in having maximum of 1 or 2 capital ships per battle, while u, with ur Fleet consisting only of BBs/BCs, will fill up ur Tonnage with ... said BBs only ! Eh Voila, u have the decisive advantage in capital ship numbers in almost every battle. apart from those 1vs1.

[Kraut]

sorry for the double post. but im not sure if ppl, who might be interested, get notified, when im just editing my previous post.

So, my experiments regarding the ambush mission are kinda done.

In my mentioned 1930 BB only campaign with 30.3 Knots of maximum Speed (enemy DDs 30 Knots too)  i encountered only one (1 !!!) Ambush mission in .. 3-4 Years. 

I started another 1930 BB only campaign, with two different types of BBs. One type with 22.2 Knots top speed and the other with 36 Knots.

After 6 Month ( i had 2 of each type on sea control) one of the slow BBs got ambushed, and i was like : yes, thats it!  

Well, only a few Month later one the fast BB got ambushed too.... and that although the british DDs could only make 34 Knots at max.... 😕

During that campaign i had later 6 out of 8 BBs on Sea Control and thx to those very annoying and frequent "Ambush defenses" and .."defend ur borders / ports" missions the brits had only 7 DDS left or so. No further Ambushes occured until the campaign ended after 3-4 years of most of the time nothing happening. ( wich made me a bit happy!)

So, long shory stort; Ambushes cant be prevent, but they maybe can be reduced by having enough speed and enough ships out on sea control at the same time corresponding to the numbers of DDs available to the enemy.

 

Oh yeah, and i wanted to add for the Spanisch Avanger. Sending ur ships out on Sea Control increases their chance to be part of missions and to create missions of a certain type.. well, atleast i speculate that. But the only time, when im on the offensive to attack an enemies Port, is when almost all my ships are out there ... doing stuff... and on those port attack missions, my fleet was usually much bigger in terms of tonnage than what was sitting there from the brits.

U might also wanna use the "delay"-button more often, when those alarms and whatnots happen at ur coast. My experience so far is, that my chances of getting more ships into the fray are usually higher than those of the enemy fleet.

So long, back to BB/BC / CB only shipping.

[akd]

The ambush locations are often hilarious.  Just ambushed a German battleship and armoured cruiser in the Irish Sea northeast of the Isle of Man in Solway Firth.  Those guys were seriously lost!  Also started at 2km from them in clear, morning conditions.  They were clearly too busy trying to figure out where the hell they were to notice 12x coal-burning destroyers approaching at high speed.

[Kraut]

maybe they were busy creating some new holes for the maryport golf club ☺️ 😇