so... what now?

[SiWi]

Hi,

After the release of the campaign and a fairly regular update schedule for it, I'm wondering what will come next to the game and waht you guys think should be next.

 

Originally the plan was:

Quote

• Core patch 1 - Core of campaign including Custom Battle saves 
• Core patch 2 - Crew and officers
• Core patch 3 - R&D and Tech Progression 
• Core patch 4 - New nations and map expansion

Now I suspect that we won't get officers this year or another major update.

But going of on this, let say we get the update on officers. How will the show go on?

Adding more nations or add features like diplomacy or peace negotiation (which right now don't seem to matter)

 

Which nations should be added in first, how the map expanded? 

 

Personally, I think it could make to add 2 more in the next major update: Russia and France.

Why those two? Well there next to the existing UK&Germany and could help to balance then the campaign.

If we add only 1 nation then it could easily be a disadvantage for one of the two existing. Assuming we don't Lock the nation diplomatic of course.

If we just add France for example it could be either a big disadvantage for the UK (with a potential enemy just below their coast) or a disaster for Germany, having to fight 2 enemies at once. Russia here could be the counter balance, since it would be a thread to germany.

 

But those are major nations, what do you think about minors? Should the Dev's add Sweden, Denmark, Belgium ect. so the player has room to expand against none major navies or should they be the last to come?

[T_the_ferret]

In my opinion, every expansion plan for the campaign should be thrown out for now, and the entire dev team should focus fully on polishing the gameplay and the current system 

[SiWi]

So damage system (flooding is suppose to get a rework next update), ship designer ect?

 

On the campaign itself as in the duel between UK&Germany (aka balancing the campaigns and starts) I wouldn't spend to much time on, since it is a provisional and will be ultimately in vain. Unlike the other systems. 

[T_the_ferret]

Damage system, ship designer, combat mechanics, combat itself, lots of stuff needs a priority pass before we get any expansion. No sense getting more when the core's not right

[llib]

I think it's safe to assume these things are going mostly in order/schedule of the devs and trying to organize it for them is pretty futile. Also apart from bugs and maybe torpedoes sometimes seeming to operate proximity fuze (for bad and for good, works for and against ai) don't see anything obviously wrong/not working as intended to be honest.

[T_the_ferret]

Trying to provide any feedback that isn't about bugs is futile, but hell the community's nothing but persistent at least.

[Skeksis]

9 hours ago, SiWi said:

Which nations should be added in first, how the map expanded? 

My guess is regional movement is the next biggest development for the world map/game. If Dev’s step that then any region that’s bordering North Europe could be up for expansion, so most likely the Mediterranean, with an outside chance of South Africa (South Africa has no nations but would be good for regional movement testing). Mediterranean has the nations Italy, Hungary & Spain, probably would include France, since they’re North Europe too. But Russia would have ports in the Asian Sea's, so maybe it might not make it into the first expansion. 

Then a fully waring campaign AI and peace time could be in that EA/testing too.

Guessing again, I think there’s enough ships ready for all those nations but they would be probably mostly waiting on map art.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Skeksis

[SiWi]

7 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

My guess is regional movement is the next biggest development for the world map/game. If Dev’s step that then any region that’s bordering North Europe could be up for expansion, so most likely the Mediterranean, with an outside chance of South Africa. Mediterranean has the nations Italy, Hungary & Spain, probably would include France, since they’re North Europe too. But Russia would have ports in the Asian Sea's, so maybe it might not make it into the first expansion. 

Then a fully waring campaign AI and peace time could be in that EA/testing too.

Guessing again, I think there’s enough ships ready for all those nations but they would be probably mostly waiting on map art.

well technically both germany and uk have ports in Africa and asia too. (which btw would turn the german campaign into a whole different beast)

 

So when I say "France and Russia" I kinda assume that Russia would be mainly baltic sea thou you maybe could add black sea fleet, since in theory france also could fight them there.

[Skeksis]

5 minutes ago, SiWi said:

well technically both germany and uk have ports in Africa and asia too. (which btw would turn the german campaign into a whole different beast)

 

So when I say "France and Russia" I kinda assume that Russia would be mainly baltic sea thou you maybe could add black sea fleet, since in theory france also could fight them there.

Yeah in the full campaign/map all nations would have ports everywhere but I’m mostly thinking along the lines for where ships can actually move to, i.e. connecting regions.

[SiWi]

thats what I mean when I say that Russia would be mainly baltic and not "full Russia".

Instead off adding Russia as a whole you would add the ports which are almost already on the map (just a bit to the east).

If you then feel "adventures" you could add the black sea and for France the Mediterranean, where then Italy, Austria and Spain can follow.

Edited December 6, 2021 by SiWi

[Littorio]

10 hours ago, T_the_ferret said:

In my opinion, every expansion plan for the campaign should be thrown out for now, and the entire dev team should focus fully on polishing the gameplay and the current system 

Yes, you don't want to build anything more complicated on a shaky foundation. This just leads to bigger problems down the road when your later systems start to interact with the earlier issues in unforeseen ways causing a cascade of failures. While I wouldn't really say the entire game is on a shaky foundation, certain elements are, anmely as well have said multiple times: missions being generated that the AI retreats from immediately, in-battle spotting, weather/time of day/sea state graphics (which will help get a handle on the previous two issues), and the merchant system.

 

10 hours ago, SiWi said:

So damage system (flooding is suppose to get a rework next update), ship designer ect?

 

On the campaign itself as in the duel between UK&Germany (aka balancing the campaigns and starts) I wouldn't spend to much time on, since it is a provisional and will be ultimately in vain. Unlike the other systems. 

Well here I think you are viewing the point of this initial campaign wrong. Yes, it is "provisional" and will change. Obviously once more countries are added, the UK vs. Germany dynamic becomes much less important. But this current campaign serves as a testbed for all later mechanics and changes. If Britain vs. just Germany can't be balanced, what happens when the Royal Navy needs to be in the Med against Italy at the same time, or against France for that matter? Will ships magically leave Malta and Alexandria and pop up in one turn in Scapa Flow? What about France? It will have to have Atlantic and Mediterranean fleets. The campaign dynamic needs to optimized now before it is expanded to other areas.

 

7 hours ago, llib said:

I think it's safe to assume these things are going mostly in order/schedule of the devs and trying to organize it for them is pretty futile. Also apart from bugs and maybe torpedoes sometimes seeming to operate proximity fuze (for bad and for good, works for and against ai) don't see anything obviously wrong/not working as intended to be honest.

If you don't see anything else wrong then I suggest you poke around the forums more. From port shuffling among ships, to nonsensical missions generated with no obvious strategic value or sense, to lack of intelligence on fleet disposition. Though i do agree the torpedo hits can seem a bit magnetic at time, well before such detonators existed.

 

51 minutes ago, SiWi said:

thats what I mean when I say that Russia would be mainly baltic and not "full Russia".

Instead off adding Russia as a whole you would add the ports which are almost already on the map (just a bit to the east).

If you then feel "adventures" you could add the black sea and for France the Mediterranean, where then Italy, Austria and Spain can follow.

Agreed, Baltic Russia is a good start. Full Russia will only come into play when they get around to China and Japan and want to do the whole Russo-Japanese War thing (which I am looking forward too)

Edited December 6, 2021 by Littorio

[ReefKip]

16 hours ago, SiWi said:

Hi,

After the release of the campaign and a fairly regular update schedule for it, I'm wondering what will come next to the game and waht you guys think should be next.

 

Originally the plan was:

Now I suspect that we won't get officers this year or another major update.

But going of on this, let say we get the update on officers. How will the show go on?

Adding more nations or add features like diplomacy or peace negotiation (which right now don't seem to matter)

 

Which nations should be added in first, how the map expanded? 

 

Personally, I think it could make to add 2 more in the next major update: Russia and France.

Why those two? Well there next to the existing UK&Germany and could help to balance then the campaign.

If we add only 1 nation then it could easily be a disadvantage for one of the two existing. Assuming we don't Lock the nation diplomatic of course.

If we just add France for example it could be either a big disadvantage for the UK (with a potential enemy just below their coast) or a disaster for Germany, having to fight 2 enemies at once. Russia here could be the counter balance, since it would be a thread to germany.

 

But those are major nations, what do you think about minors? Should the Dev's add Sweden, Denmark, Belgium ect. so the player has room to expand against none major navies or should they be the last to come?

While Russia and France seem to be the more logical choice to be added to the campaign, If you look at how much content they have in the form of hulls and other equipment it seems not likely that they are ready to be added yet. They really need to add more hulls to make those nations feel unique and not just a half assed copy of birtish and german hulls with a few unique hulls mixed in. which is what they are currently.

I personally hope that they are going to focus more on fleshing out and balancing the fundamental mechanics like spotting,the damage model and the weather system before they proceed in adding more content.

[Littorio]

24 minutes ago, ReefKip said:

I personally hope that they are going to focus more on fleshing out and balancing the fundamental mechanics like spotting,the damage model and the weather system before they proceed in adding more content.

^ This

[SiWi]

6 hours ago, Littorio said:

Well here I think you are viewing the point of this initial campaign wrong. Yes, it is "provisional" and will change. Obviously once more countries are added, the UK vs. Germany dynamic becomes much less important. But this current campaign serves as a testbed for all later mechanics and changes. If Britain vs. just Germany can't be balanced, what happens when the Royal Navy needs to be in the Med against Italy at the same time, or against France for that matter? Will ships magically leave Malta and Alexandria and pop up in one turn in Scapa Flow? What about France? It will have to have Atlantic and Mediterranean fleets. The campaign dynamic needs to optimized now before it is expanded to other areas.

the thing, lets say you have perfectly balance UK vs Germany in "war and nothing else" mode.

What good does it actually do you when you add France? Or Russia or Spain or the US or whatever?

What if you add diplomacy (which I think they want to have if there is more then one nation)?

What about getting new provinces through peace deals?

The shifts in dynamic are so drastic in my opinion, that the "perfect balance" of the UKvsGermany campaign is no use to you and you basically start again from zero (and I'm talking here the balancing of the faction here).

Also I don't see the problem with movement right now. Granted it takes one turn right now but then again the ports are relative close to each other. And deciding how straits work, can be done independently from introducing new nations or not. In fact if there is a complex perfectly working movement system in case, you wouldn't notice, because there are basically no distances to cross. For that you would need to add at least more space. Which of course would also an option: make the map bigger but don't add new nations.

Thou in cause of this set up I feel Germany would then be chance less. Its territories are pretty far away and with the RN having nothing to do but take care of them I don't think Germany would have a chance to defend anything but their home territory.

[Littorio]

1 hour ago, SiWi said:

the thing, lets say you have perfectly balance UK vs Germany in "war and nothing else" mode.

What good does it actually do you when you add France? Or Russia or Spain or the US or whatever?

What if you add diplomacy (which I think they want to have if there is more then one nation)?

What about getting new provinces through peace deals?

The shifts in dynamic are so drastic in my opinion, that the "perfect balance" of the UKvsGermany campaign is no use to you and you basically start again from zero (and I'm talking here the balancing of the faction here).

Also I don't see the problem with movement right now. Granted it takes one turn right now but then again the ports are relative close to each other. And deciding how straits work, can be done independently from introducing new nations or not. In fact if there is a complex perfectly working movement system in case, you wouldn't notice, because there are basically no distances to cross. For that you would need to add at least more space. Which of course would also an option: make the map bigger but don't add new nations.

Thou in cause of this set up I feel Germany would then be chance less. Its territories are pretty far away and with the RN having nothing to do but take care of them I don't think Germany would have a chance to defend anything but their home territory.

It does the good of knowing how a 1v1 nation fight should be balanced. Obviously every nation will be a little bit different in terms of budget, economic power, ports, etc, but if this first attempt at a campaign can't be balanced, simple as it is, how can you add to the complexity with 2-4 more nations? Now, I am not saying you spend a year optimizing every last little detail of Britain vs. Germany, but I think it's a bit early to talk about expanding to more countries given this has only been out what...two weeks?

Diplomacy will be key, but again it adds to the complexity. We need to make sure all the systems that will be built on: transport convoys, port usage, proper budgeting, manpower, etc. all work on the smallest scale possible in a war. Once we know what works in war, we will know how to structure the peacetime, because let's be honest, the point of the game is to be at war and fight. There isn't any other use for all your ships.

The issue with movement is it's instantaneous effect when returning from a battle, and the fact the AI sends you ships to other ports than that which you assigned them. Every turn I am moving the same few ships back from the Baltic to the North Sea. And it is a little ridiculous how far they can go in a turn. One movement they are near Gotland, and next turn in the Bay of Biscay, the same ships? There needs to be better control of where your ships are and get sent, or if not, at least explain WHY certain ships are being moved by the AI. Players don't like things that aren't under their control, and this is a perfect example.

[SiWi]

7 hours ago, Littorio said:

It does the good of knowing how a 1v1 nation fight should be balanced. Obviously every nation will be a little bit different in terms of budget, economic power, ports, etc, but if this first attempt at a campaign can't be balanced, simple as it is, how can you add to the complexity with 2-4 more nations? Now, I am not saying you spend a year optimizing every last little detail of Britain vs. Germany, but I think it's a bit early to talk about expanding to more countries given this has only been out what...two weeks?

except it really doesn't. Because of the duel like quantities of the set up, any balance around this will fall apart the moment you add another player. If the two team up, be it by coincidence, then making each nation roughly equally strong, which is what you do in a duel, would be a disaster. Hence the reasoning to add not one nations but two btw.

And I'm not say "add them tomorrow" but rather the general big next patch. The big next step.

Quote

Diplomacy will be key, but again it adds to the complexity. We need to make sure all the systems that will be built on: transport convoys, port usage, proper budgeting, manpower, etc. all work on the smallest scale possible in a war. Once we know what works in war, we will know how to structure the peacetime, because let's be honest, the point of the game is to be at war and fight. There isn't any other use for all your ships.

What exactly would need to work differently in peace time in terms of budget then war? The only difference I would think I that one would spend less money on training and more on research. Also the point of the game would kinda be the Peace build up to war, which especially in navy strategy is very important key.

Besides what are your complains about budget and manpower? The only thing I would think off that it doesn't matter in which port your ship is and it always gets resupplied. Given that right now we have only "homelands" and no colonies, I think thats alright.

Quote

The issue with movement is it's instantaneous effect when returning from a battle, and the fact the AI sends you ships to other ports than that which you assigned them. Every turn I am moving the same few ships back from the Baltic to the North Sea. And it is a little ridiculous how far they can go in a turn. One movement they are near Gotland, and next turn in the Bay of Biscay, the same ships? There needs to be better control of where your ships are and get sent, or if not, at least explain WHY certain ships are being moved by the AI. Players don't like things that aren't under their control, and this is a perfect example.

Nick has explain this in a post, saying that the ships return to the "nearst port" and don't go into ports if they are overloaded. Granted that still seem buggy, given that then ships end up in east Prussia, and how ships end up in Bremen and not all in Emden when fighting in the Nord sea. I however see a very easy solution for this: always send ships pack to their starting port.

Now granted there are many UI features that I miss to make life easier:

Show me a map when I place ships in ports, show me a indication where a ship can reach base on its current base and so on.

Nothing that can't be work on parallel to expand the map.

 

[DougToss]

I think there is a lot of work that needs to be done still for fire control, gunnery, floatation and damage.

[T_the_ferret]

Let's be honest... we can wish as much as we want, they won't listen. Game's going out this week, plan is already to expand the campaign.

[Danelin Aruna]

dont forget spotting needs to be solved as the current system is really really bad

[RedParadize]

First thing that I would like to see is a balancing pass on part and perk. Then a map extention and finally a fine tuning of combat mechanic.

Edit:
Oh, do anyones know if we will get a 1890-1940 campaign?

Edited December 7, 2021 by RedParadize

[SiWi]

in theory the 1890 campaign would go to 1940 but because you win or lose before that we don't have that in the moment.

[Littorio]

6 hours ago, SiWi said:

What exactly would need to work differently in peace time in terms of budget then war? The only difference I would think I that one would spend less money on training and more on research. Also the point of the game would kinda be the Peace build up to war, which especially in navy strategy is very important key.

Besides what are your complains about budget and manpower? The only thing I would think off that it doesn't matter in which port your ship is and it always gets resupplied. Given that right now we have only "homelands" and no colonies, I think thats alright.

Nick has explain this in a post, saying that the ships return to the "nearst port" and don't go into ports if they are overloaded. Granted that still seem buggy, given that then ships end up in east Prussia, and how ships end up in Bremen and not all in Emden when fighting in the Nord sea. I however see a very easy solution for this: always send ships pack to their starting port.

Well for starters your ships won't be on patrol at sea so their budgetary requirements will be cut in half. If you're not in a war for a long period it may leave you with tons of cash, transports, etc. All things to consider for long-term balance, especially given research. Exactly how manpower and training works is still a bit opaque to me. The crews can get up to "trained" while sitting in port if your budget is high enough, but can you slack off on the monthly $$$ once they are at that level? Will it regress if so? As it stands, most of the systems in game are not very transparent for the players and are either confusing or just completely hidden.

Of course, this is without even going into INTELLIGENCE. I'm not even talking operational intelligence - aka where ships are deployed and what they are doing on patrol. I mean strategic intelligence - such as what kind of classes they have and what their armament and armor is. This is a CRUCIAL aspect of the wider gameplay because you need to at least have estimates on this so that you know what to build...and building ships is the backbone of this game. They SHOULD be testing out the first version for their intel system now in small campaign, rather than complicate their work on map expansion. The same goes for submarines and mines. God only knows what kind of balancing this will require...

As I have said, of course I want a large, full game, with many nations - eventually. There are still too many missing, confusing, or just incomplete mechanics that aren't fully realized just yet to be able to safely expand. It isn't wise, regardless of how much you might just want the fun of a bigger map. But as others have said, they said they are going to Steam this week so it is already probably too late.....

Edited December 7, 2021 by Littorio

[The_Real_Hawkeye]

1 hour ago, RedParadize said:

Oh, do anyones know if we will get a 1890-1940 campaign?

If UA:D is anything like RTW2 (which was an inspiration for it), then absolutely.

I mean, sure, you might have won the first German-Russian war but that doesn't mean you will now live happily ever after, now does it?

There are still those pesky French on your other side and those Brits across the North Sea don't seem to accept your dominance in Europe either - and let's not forget those upstart Japanese in Asia; oh, and don't you remember how those Americans were shipping weapons and supplies to the Russians during your war?

Yeah, plenty of other nations to put in their place   

[RedParadize]

 

9 hours ago, The_Real_Hawkeye said:

If UA:D is anything like RTW2 (which was an inspiration for it), then absolutely.

I do not think there was any clear statement on that. I certainly hope so.

[arkhangelsk]

On 12/7/2021 at 10:47 AM, Littorio said:

One movement they are near Gotland, and next turn in the Bay of Biscay, the same ships?

Please remember that a month passes with each turn. In that time, a ship can go to New York and return.