>>>Core Patch 1.0 Feedback<<<

[Nick Thomadis]

6 minutes ago, o Barão said:

- Are we supposed to unlock other campaigns just by losing the current one? 

Campaigns should unlock by winning. If this does not work, we will fix. We will gradually allow more decades in next updates.

6 minutes ago, o Barão said:

- Can we expect a fix for the torpedoes range? They are already to much OP in the 1890 campaign and this issue makes them much worse to deal with them.

With the new accuracy it should become riskier to approach too near a heavily armed ships of the 1890s. But not sure if this is optimized yet, so this is why I ask for more feedback.

[T_the_ferret]

The main problem in campaign (and to a limited extent in custom) is that coincidence rangefinders, while close to being researched in both nation campaigns, cannot be retrofitted onto ships as they do not have that option, so most of your ships for the entirety of the campaign (as most ships take very long to be commissioned and put to work) still have in my opinion immense trouble hitting targets like torpedo boats, while bigger targets like heavy cruisers or battleships with underwater torpedo tubes can easily close the gaps by rushing you and throwing a torpedo out that you have little chance of dodging.

Most self defense guns (102 and under) have extremely low base chance to hit even at 1km, to the extent of 15 to 10 percent base. Combine this with no rangefinders, guns with high caliber that do have a chance to hit having low muzzle velocity and low RoF as well as all of your crews at start being cadets and thus having significant disadvantage to damage control means its a base problem inherent to the game's gunnery design.

[o Barão]

39 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Campaigns should unlock by winning. If this does not work, we will fix. We will gradually allow more decades in next updates.

With the new accuracy it should become riskier to approach too near a heavily armed ships of the 1890s. But not sure if this is optimized yet, so this is why I ask for more feedback.

The issue in detail is:

 

- ATM to unlock later campaigns , the player needs to do nothing. Don't build anything , don't spend money in nothing. Let the time pass and just accept the peace treaty. The game will probably refuse the 1st time but will accept the next one. Usually takes around 14 months +/-. The player loses the campaign but will unlock the next one. Is only 2 minutes. 

 

- About the torpedoes the issue is they can have 0.9 km range, however this is not true. That 0.9km range is what is needed to be used against a target , but after they are launched they will go on for many kilometers. Maybe they have unlimited range after they are launched? 

Why is this a big problem? Well if we are using destroyers to screen the fleet , they will bait the AI to use them , however because they have unlimited range ( maybe?) Is not unusual to see them go all the way and hit the capital ships far away.  This issue is very easy to notice on late academy missions in big fleet engagements.

Here as an example:

- My torpedo have 0.9km range,

- The white dot show where it is atm.

- Was launched by my CL on screen.

- It continued to go on for how long? I have no idea really. But clear that torpedo does not have 0.9km range, And this happens to all of them.

- The AI ships on the left screen are still trying to avoid my torpedo that shouldn't be there is the 1st place.

Edited November 27, 2021 by o Barão

[T_the_ferret]

Not to mention all ship for some reason suffer from a torpedo vulnerability modifier on top of its base design, to the tune of 20% additional damage received from torpedoes (light cruisers) to 2% additional damage (heavy battleships)

[Nick Thomadis]

14 minutes ago, o Barão said:

- About the torpedoes the issue is they can have 0.9 km range, however this is not true. That 0.9km range is what is needed to be used against a target , but after they are launched they will go on for many kilometers. Maybe they have unlimited range after they are launched? 

No this is not true, the torps have a specific range. 

The torp in the image seems to have been launched by another angle. Not clear if you were at the edge of its range +/-. In any case torps have a specific range and should not be exceeded, at least in a big margin.

[o Barão]

1 minute ago, Nick Thomadis said:

No this is not true, the torps have a specific range. 

If they do, is not related to the range displayed in the weapon info. Is much greater. How much? I have no idea.

i can run more tests and take more prints just to show this issue in game.

About the campaign unlock;

Major defeat, but doens't matter.

[Nick Thomadis]

3 minutes ago, o Barão said:

If they do, is not related to the range displayed in the weapon info. Is much greater. How much? I have no idea.

i can run more tests and take more prints just to show this issue in game.

About the campaign unlock;

Major defeat, but doens't matter.

Indeed, this happens, we will fix it, thank you.

[T_the_ferret]

What about the base accuracy issue?

[Nick Thomadis]

4 minutes ago, T_the_ferret said:

What about the base accuracy issue?

Still under testing, we do not want the opposite effect, make accuracy annoyingly high, and ending all battles in hasty fast forward.

[T_the_ferret]

The main thing i would suggest is fixing the modules (or their tooltips) that affect range and accuracy, because the tooltip is very misleading. Right now tooltip implies accuracy is increased while range is decreased, but range is the paramount statistics in accuracy and as such those modules that reduce range but increase base accuracy simply decrease overall accuracy by sometime a significant amount 

Edited November 27, 2021 by T_the_ferret

[arkhangelsk]

Can you add a Save button for Campaign Battles? Or at least Auto-save the Battle when you Leave Battle? Not many people can sit for six hours in a stretch, and time compression isn't a solution because for one thing the compression is less in a big battle. For another thing, every time you use time compression you risk losing control and your ship drives into torpedo range. In fact, you might want to go less than (on average) 1:1 in large battles, with frequent pauses just so you can check out each ship. To do this right you need to be able to Save.

[Mutsu]

So playing as the Bri'ish have gotten through the 1890 and 1900 campaigns. Lots of good potential here and will be nice to have economic growth added since I find your funds get more and more limited as the campaign goes on. When economic growth is added and this campaign turns out in anyways like RTW2's, the USA will be extremely overpowered xD

[Defaultface]

It is also possible to "skip" the early year campaigns by just letting the AI build the fleet and skipping through turns. If you manage the budget to not go bust and maybe build a few ships here and there eventually it seems like you win more often than not in 1890 & 1900. In one case the british even started just scrapping their whole fleet for no reason at some point so I won.

 

I would agree with the others as far as the budget for 1910 though. At least when playing as the germans its difficult to make any useable amount of decent ships, while the AI gets lots of high quality ships to start and continues to build more and more. An auto generated fleet gives you 6 BBs worth 11 million plus numerous other ships, but if you choose to design your own you only get 68 million for the entire navy to work with.

It would also be helpful to have some sort of explanation as for how to better prevent losing transports. Does it have to do with how many ships with what ranges I have based in what ports? Is it to do with total tonnage/naval dominance vs the enemy in some area? I find it difficult to prevent losing transports, and it seems I lose huge amounts of them at random on some turns whereas the AI doesnt. I like the idea behind the mechanic but without some way of assigning my fleet to protect my convoys or raiding the enemy convoys it feels like RNG.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Defaultface

[o Barão]

@Nick Thomadis

So about the torpedoes real range.

Here the 0.9km range torpedo travel around 2km +/- it seems. My ship continued to moving forward after the launch.

Anyway in the next test i used a 3.3km torpedo, this time moving in a tight circle to make it easier to know exactly what is the distance travelled.

6.8 km for a 3.3 km range torpedo. Make sense?

And last, how far will go the best torpedo in game?

Note that my ship will be in the exact same spot running in circles to make the calculation the more correct was possible.

Around 35.6km +/-.  Not bad for a 22.3 km range torpedo right?

This needs to be fixed. I know this situation happens since i run the big fleet engagements in the academy missions. I was always looking to the enemy torpedo stats to see if my capital ships where safe , but the AI would use them against my destroyers, cruisers that are screening for the big boys , but because the torpedo have in reality insane ranges that are not displayed in the stats they would continue to go until they reach the BBs in the back.

 

With all respect , Nick. If a torpedo have X range, it needs to have that range. Not more, not less.

Edited November 27, 2021 by o Barão

[arkhangelsk]

May I suggest the Auto-Resol ver needs work (had to use it b/c I can't sit through a six hour battle, more considering how much I'll have to pause to do it right)? I had more battleships and light cruisers. OK, maybe the British ships were somewhat superior individually, but what is this loss ratio?

Though it's kind of gamey, perhaps what is needed is a display like the gunnery display, with the factors the game will consider in its Auto-Resolve on the screen and the range of likely results. That way, people can make an informed decision on whether to push the button.

 

[akd]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

- ATM to unlock later campaigns , the player needs to do nothing. Don't build anything , don't spend money in nothing. Let the time pass and just accept the peace treaty. The game will probably refuse the 1st time but will accept the next one. Usually takes around 14 months +/-. The player loses the campaign but will unlock the next one. Is only 2 minutes. 

The whole idea that unlocking choices is good gameplay design is erroneous.

[RedParadize]

While waiting for a 1920 campaign I jumped over custom battle to see what I would do. I think I know why it isn't there yet, a huge balancing pass is needed.

Beside that, there is absolutely no point building shipyard or researching over a 10 year period, specially since you win or lose within the first two year. You set the slider in finance tab only once, then the only reason to go there is to look how much crew is available.

[Verdant]

1 hour ago, o Barão said:

With all respect , Nick. If a torpedo have X range, it needs to have that range. Not more, not less.

I think the issue you're having with this is that you are expecting the range itself to be the hard limit, when I think how it is implemented is the maximum targetable range. Think of it as "effective range" instead of "maximum range". I'm okay with how this operates, as there are situations in war when you're not thinking about what is behind your target and accidentally hit your own ships.

This actually happened, at the very least where the IJN Mogami was covering landings at Sunda Strait, then fired six torpedoes at the Americans and Australians; five of those torpedoes hit, but not in the way they were hoping. Instead, the IJN Mogami had struck the the IJN minesweeper W-2, IJA landing ship Ryujo Maru, and the IJA transports Sakura Maru, Tatsuno Maru, and Horai Maru. All were sunk, but the Japanese forces were able to raise some of the transports and landing ship. 

The IJN type 93 torpedo has an effective firing range of 22,000 meters (24,000 yards) at 89–93 km/h (48–50 knots), and a maximum firing range of 40,400 meters (44,200 yards) at 63–67 km/h (34–36 knots). You can see how something like this is able to happen if you're caught up in the moment and focused solely on the threat at hand.

I'm sure there's more precedent for this, but it's a good mechanic to have so you're aware of your surroundings and tactical situation, and are punished if you move your ships in a reckless manner and give them aggressive orders.. 

[Cpt.Hissy]

^^^
Umm no.
These 900 meters were actual maximum range for self propelled mines of the period, after that they ran out of whatever "fuel" and sank.
Any torpedo can potentially be aimed at it's maximum range, even if it makes almost no sense for latest ones.
More so, more advanced torpedoes have a safety mechanism, that scuttles them soon after in case of miss, specifically to avoid above mentioned scenarios.

Miss a close target and hit whatever behind is one thing. Defy the laws of physics and engineering just because is another.

[Verdant]

17 minutes ago, Cpt.Hissy said:

^^^
Umm no.
These 900 meters were actual maximum range for self propelled mines of the period, after that they ran out of whatever "fuel" and sank.
Any torpedo can potentially be aimed at it's maximum range, even if it makes almost no sense for latest ones.
More so, more advanced torpedoes have a safety mechanism, that scuttles them soon after in case of miss, specifically to avoid above mentioned scenarios.

Miss a close target and hit whatever behind is one thing. Defy the laws of physics and engineering just because is another.

Please note that in their post, that they brought up torpedoes of all ages in the game. So I was addressing that, not just the 0.9km for the starting campaign era.

I am perfectly fine with the range set in the game being an "effective range" or "maximum targetable range" as opposed to a maximum range of travel. 

[TAKTCOM]

About mighty and powerful torpedoes.

СА 3500, starter ship, base technology 1890

ВВ 9000-1100, base technology 1890

Also, in 1890, four inches decimates my 200 ton 27-knot torpedo boats.

Edited November 27, 2021 by TAKTCOM
WAR FOR IMPROVEMENT

[SpardaSon21]

1 hour ago, Verdant said:

Please note that in their post, that they brought up torpedoes of all ages in the game. So I was addressing that, not just the 0.9km for the starting campaign era.

I am perfectly fine with the range set in the game being an "effective range" or "maximum targetable range" as opposed to a maximum range of travel. 

Unfortunately the current performance of torpedoes is well beyond IRL torpedo performance.  Right now the 1890 torpedoes have the range and speed of the German 17.7" torpedoes, not 15" ones.  Things only get worse the bigger you get, sadly, with only IRL US post-war peroxide-fueled torpedoes and the Type 93 Long Lance getting equivalent performance to the 1940 tech ones in-game.

Edited November 27, 2021 by SpardaSon21

[Saliddry]

ok THX FOR THE CAMPAIGN... i waited long enoug for it hehehehhe

 

 

but a few fixes are realy needed...... i think the torps are ok  ...read real battle reports of the clashes between german and british fleets ...read the german ww1 uboots killing battleship with an single torp.....cause at that time  flooding was an completly underrated problem

 

the problem i have is the battle outcomes....

i installed it around 3 hours ago made a few campaign battle ....

just now before this post i again raided an british convoy this time with 2 light cruisers...

 badly this time i lost an ship for an badly CRAZY lucky shoot of an 4" gun from an freighter blowing up the ammo magazine of my lead cruiser!!!!!!

 

ok ok lucky shoots happen ....

 

i fullfiled the mission killed all 8 transports and made an escape   as end battle poped up...

cause the brits still had 2 light cruisers and an torp boat around....

 

battle end screen said VICTORY !!!! ...but i got 0 and the brits got 564 victory points????????

8 transports sunk 1 light cruiser badly damaged torp boat light damage....

 

i lost 1 cruiser.....

 

i find sinking convoys should get some rewards..... otherwise doing this mission is useless since you only risk losing your raiders to escorts..

 

[ReefKip]

Does the technology system work for anyone in the campaign? Because for me it  barely does  and seems very broken. I unlocked rangefinder upgrade  in a 1900 campaign but i cannot equip them on any of my ships if i try to design a new one.

The only technology that worked for me was the range upgrade for torpedoes. which actually did show up on the Torpedo stats. 

Without the  technology  system working properly you cannot evolve designs at all. This is a very big issue for the gameplay.

Edited November 27, 2021 by ReefKip

[Verdant]

1 minute ago, ReefKip said:

Does the technology system work for anyone in the campaign? Because for me it  barely does  and seems very broken. I unlocked rangefinder upgrade  in a 1900 campaign but i cannot equip them on any of my ships if i try to design a new one.

The only technology that worked for me was the range upgrade for torpedoes. which actually did show up on the Torpedo stats. 

Without the  technology  system working properly you cannot evolve designs at all. This is a very big issue for the gameplay.

I honestly think there needs to be a refit system. I shouldn't have to build a whole new class of ships just to change the shell propellent.

Regarding rangefinders, once I unlocked them in my 1890 campaign, they showed up once I put guns down on a design.