Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

>>>Core Patch 0.5 Feedback Hotfix v90<<<


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, DougToss said:

It’s not about the designs, it’s about the underlying systems. 

what has the displacement to do with "underlying systems"?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 887
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Greetings Admirals, The next major patch for Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts has just become available! This large update is the precursor of the first campaign version of the game. We decided to rel

Hello all, We understand your anticipation for the campaign and it is welcome. The last patch which you all play has revealed very few remaining issues that we already sort out to fix in the

Hello all, Tomorrow a new hotfix patch will become available. It will include the following: *Hotfix v90* (30/9/2021) - Refactoring of the Auto-Design code, addressing various issues that coul

Posted Images

7 hours ago, SiWi said:

what has the displacement to do with "underlying systems"?

Large displacements mask the problems with the weight, distribution, efficiency and effectiveness of machinery, protection, firepower and fire control.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, DougToss said:

Large displacements mask the problems with the weight, distribution, efficiency and effectiveness of machinery, protection, firepower and fire control.

so you are against designs that were though of but not put into reality in the name of "realism" in a sandbox "build your own ship" game?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/19/2021 at 4:41 PM, SiWi said:

so you are against designs that were though of but not put into reality in the name of "realism" in a sandbox "build your own ship" game?

He is against designs that could exist on paper but were physicly impossible in reality you genius.

But thats not even his main point, he is against focusing on paper super battleships when core mechanics clearly don't represent reality properly which is especially visible on more historical designs that don't work as intended. 

Edited by Microscop
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SiWi said:

so you are against designs that were though of but not put into reality in the name of "realism" in a sandbox "build your own ship" game? 🤪

 

53 minutes ago, Microscop said:

He is against designs that could exist on paper but were physicly impossible in reality you genius.

But thats not even his main point, he is against focusing on paper super battleships were core mechanics clearly don't represent reality properly which is especially visible on more historical designs that don't work as intended. 

Thank you.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skeksis said:

To increase your anticipation 😊, here’s a passage from the official site….

Unpredictable and challenging AI

All the above mentioned features are also utilized by your AI opponent. First of all, the AI will maneuver realistically, maintaining a protective screen around its flagship and sending light ships, such as Destroyers and Torpedo Boats, far ahead to engage nearby threats with torpedoes.

Unlike in most games, the AI is able to make estimations of the optimal firing distance, and will not simply fire at anything visible regardless of range, wasting ammo prematurely. Instead, it is going to evaluate what is the most effective engage range and will start firing when it approaches close enough.

Furthermore, the AI makes estimations on the damage potential between its ships and the player's. So it will try to keep every ship in its own “immunity zone” depending on the armor and firepower of the engaging ships. If the AI becomes overwhelmed by player numbers or sustains significant damage, it will try to evade until it regains superiority, or will withdraw from combat by retreating.

The AI does not know everything, so if the player's ships are not visible, it will try to estimate their position in a logical manner. When visibility is limited or there is harsh weather, all AI estimations and tactical choices are adjusted accordingly. For example, during night the AI will attempt to engage closer to the player, exploiting any advantage it has in guns and torpedoes, while in clear weather it will keep a safer distance, against a player fleet with superior firepower.

The AI also does not see the player's torpedoes until they are detected by spotting or sensors. When torpedoes are sighted, the AI will try to evade them intelligently, as a human player would. 

The dynamic AI behaviour is going to be enriched with AI personalities, that make the AI more defensive or aggressive depending on nation fleet.

We believe that the AI in Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts should have a realistic behaviour, so that player is not only challenged but also immersed from the combat interaction.

 

Just a few Dev’s AI goals. 

Good luck to them, AI tends to be one if not the hardest things to get right and do well in. atm it seems the AI knows where the player is and tends to ironically engage as soon as it sees the enemy (or rather as long as its in sight). The rest well that will come later.

Obviously its still somewhat early days, but the AI is still fairly basic and gets quite a bit wrong regardless, it does well with 1-2 ship types in formation, but struggles afterwards to stop ships from slamming into each other.

Obviously these are long term goals, but still good luck to them regardless.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cptbarney said:

Good luck to them, AI tends to be one if not the hardest things to get right and do well in. atm it seems the AI knows where the player is and tends to ironically engage as soon as it sees the enemy (or rather as long as its in sight). The rest well that will come later.

Obviously its still somewhat early days, but the AI is still fairly basic and gets quite a bit wrong regardless, it does well with 1-2 ship types in formation, but struggles afterwards to stop ships from slamming into each other.

Obviously these are long term goals, but still good luck to them regardless.

Games can still be fun even if the A.I is not the best (remembers Battle station Pacific days). As long as the A.I gives a good challenge while being fair and not repetitive (cough cough constantly fighting weird Super Battleships). While we still have a long way to go I still have hope for an DECENT A.I. Now get out of my sight before I vertically integrate your pet.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/18/2021 at 3:08 AM, Draco said:

No, but such "a-historical" details (they do actually have historical precedence, look up the H-class designs) can be fixed by hyper-realists in mods once the game is launched.

Oh, I'm somewhat familiar with them, but they were purely paper concepts even less realistic than the American Maximum Battleship plans submitted at the request of Sen. Tillman since those at least had some restrictions on their size as a result of the Panamax limits.  As far as I'm concerned the H-class designs are the naval equivalent of the Ratte, and should be treated with as much seriousness.

A preliminary design (no.4) for an 80,000 ton battleship based upon the proposal of Senator Benjamin Tillman. It was a mixture of the best designs in armor and firepower, paying for this in increased displacement and slower speed.

Tillman_IV-2.jpg

But hey, why not go all the way and let the USA lay down 80,000 ton hulls with six-gun turrets in 1917 if the Germans get to build the H-44?  Same reasoning, right?

 

EDIT:  Apologies for the sarcasm, but I'm just tired of seeing ridiculous super-ships in custom battles more likely to collapse under their own weight than enemy gunfire.  You're right about the campaign focus, though, but I doubt we're getting proper mod tools if their other games are anything to go by.

Edited by SpardaSon21
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SpardaSon21 said:

EDIT:  Apologies for the sarcasm, but I'm just tired of seeing ridiculous super-ships in custom battles more likely to collapse under their own weight than enemy gunfire.  You're right about the campaign focus, though, but I doubt we're getting proper mod tools if their other games are anything to go by.

No no don't be, I mostly agree. I don't mind having the ability to build 100.000t+ designs as long as the infrastructure required to keep such vessels running far outway their individual utility in a campaign setting... but that is A: really hard to judge until campaign actually comes out and B: not a very comforting thought when you face your third H-class/Tillman in a row while trying to test a more reasonable design.

We'll just have to wait and see.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Ahh that one was glorious! I always wondered why no game came close to it even though we have MUCH better technology available now!

I think because that was the last effort by a major publisher, wasn’t it? 
 

It took sub sims by smaller devs a long time to catch up to where Silent Hunter was when Ubisoft dropped the title. I think the revival of Microprose will go a long way towards changing that. Their slate of games now may not have been possible by indie studios on their own.

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Skeksis said:

To increase your anticipation 😊, here’s a passage from the official site….

Unpredictable and challenging AI

All the above mentioned features are also utilized by your AI opponent. First of all, the AI will maneuver realistically, maintaining a protective screen around its flagship and sending light ships, such as Destroyers and Torpedo Boats, far ahead to engage nearby threats with torpedoes.

Unlike in most games, the AI is able to make estimations of the optimal firing distance, and will not simply fire at anything visible regardless of range, wasting ammo prematurely. Instead, it is going to evaluate what is the most effective engage range and will start firing when it approaches close enough.

Furthermore, the AI makes estimations on the damage potential between its ships and the player's. So it will try to keep every ship in its own “immunity zone” depending on the armor and firepower of the engaging ships. If the AI becomes overwhelmed by player numbers or sustains significant damage, it will try to evade until it regains superiority, or will withdraw from combat by retreating.

The AI does not know everything, so if the player's ships are not visible, it will try to estimate their position in a logical manner. When visibility is limited or there is harsh weather, all AI estimations and tactical choices are adjusted accordingly. For example, during night the AI will attempt to engage closer to the player, exploiting any advantage it has in guns and torpedoes, while in clear weather it will keep a safer distance, against a player fleet with superior firepower.

The AI also does not see the player's torpedoes until they are detected by spotting or sensors. When torpedoes are sighted, the AI will try to evade them intelligently, as a human player would. 

The dynamic AI behaviour is going to be enriched with AI personalities, that make the AI more defensive or aggressive depending on nation fleet.

We believe that the AI in Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnoughts should have a realistic behaviour, so that player is not only challenged but also immersed from the combat interaction.

 

Just a few Dev’s AI goals. 

18 hours ago, Skeksis said:

@Orange aren’t you looking forwards to the campaign, you’re sad for the campaign? Or are you sad for the AI development?

Reading the development goals for the AI just makes me fear that the team has to drop some of those to finish the game in a reasonable time. It seems right now the ai does mostly the opposite of what it should. To give credit to the devs, many things like topedo awareness are fixed in our current build and I can see the AI actually reaching a state close to that described earlier. This will however take time and effort, and combined with the work on campaign mode it is possible that the ship designer will not get the attention it needs.

That does not mean that I am not exited for the campaign, improvements to the AI or anything to make UAD feel more fleshed out. But currently the one thing that makes me pick up the game every now and then is the designer, even though the gameplay after the ship design process is still lacking.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyways, guess we will be in this for the long haul, so might as well strap ourselves in and give the devs the feedback they need and push the game into the right direction.

Too be fair i would rather have a slow and steady development than something like the disasters of fallout 76, young blood, fifa, madden etc.

Just need to remember the current issues and unify on them as much as possible.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Normally I lurk, as I find these forums to border on toxic with lot's of 'naval-splaining'.

However, after taking a couple months from the game and returning, I do have a rather strong opinion on this latest build.

Plainly put, "dumpster fire".

Notable regressions:

  • The drydock/designer is now laggy and slow.
     
  • The number of hulls/super structures which are useless is VERY high. 
    • Hulls you can't place the superstructure on at all.
    • Hulls where the allowable super structure locations would make for a useless ship design with dire balance issues.
    • Super structures you can't snap ANY of the allowed funnels into.
    • Inconsistent lax'ness in enforcing barbette locations.
    • Crazy stupid Roll penalties for casemate guns, where a similar turreted design with turrets literally on the edge not having the same penalties.
       
  • Broken firing arcs.   Wow... 
    • Many cases of snapping the lightest gun fixture where there is _ZERO_ fire arc.
    • Main super structure mounts where a historically sized main gun has a tiny firing arc.... leaving no choice but to slap a large secondary into.
       
  • We're back to unkillable Light Cruisers.   Case in point 69 7" hits at ~8000 yards against 3" of armor (I was so pissed off I didn't bother to check if was just the conning tower or actual belt)

Still boggling over design choices:

  • The torpedo meta is real.  Want to win? go hard on torpedos.
    • Torpedos don't have duds
    • Torpedos don't have fuses which require contact (no ricochets)
    • Torpedos don't have wild fires (go in circles, run deep, run shallow, etc)
    • Torpedos don't have hang-fires.
    • No controls for spread and ripple firing.
    • 95% of ships which carried deck launchers did not have reloads... yet in this game, deck launchers can be reload in minutes, even if it means moving them from the port placement to starboard.   (Seriously... for the love of Mike, remove reloads unless you pay serious tonnage and deck space for reloading facilities/storage)
    • There's NO fear to carrying your torpedos into fire.  No 'do I risk another 2 minutes of fire before firing?' questions asked.
  • The AI ship designer is just stupid.
    • Clown ships are one thing... 38,000t monster BB's in 1915... wtf?
    • No controls over how stupid the AI designer is allowed to be when sitting down to do a battle.
    • Why is there AI ship designer to begin with?   It's such a broken feature which could EASILY be replaced by picking up a couple history books, designing a few lists of year appropriate/treaty appropriate designs.   At least for me... it'd be far more enjoyable as I could play my 'what if' scenarios without having to worry about the AI Designer goes "small stupid" or "big stupid".
      • Give the player the ability to augment the pre-canned designs, either to add missed variants or add their own head-canon.
         
  • Why isn't it easier to see your own actual speed?  (as opposed to where you have the throttle set?)
     
  • Ditto an enemy ship...
     
  • If indeed, the plan is to model through 1940, why are there no notions of DP or QF guns?   Notably guns like the US 5inch DP...   where's the smothering fire and ability to wreck almost any sized ship with HE?  (it might still be floating, but it's not fighting)
     
  • Striking colours.   A critical hit on a BC that causes 4 of their 5 turrets to shoot into orbit, but they stay in line and even more maddingly, keep fighting?   Unlikely.
     

All tolled, I'm really disappointed.   I'd have given almost any amount of money for an expanded Civil War Edition (you guys got it just right), I'm regretting supporting this game with a AAA price buy-in (you are messing up).

-joel

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Nick Thomadis locked, unlocked, locked and unpinned this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...