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After some quick searching around on the net for details on what Cordite actually was, it was a replacement for Black Powder,which is fair enough. However it's characteristics in game are pretty tremendously bad, and is basically a more expensive mostly worse version of Lyddite. A majority of players would agree that Lyddite is just an objectively better shell option compared to Cordite, if only because of the raw damage effects of HE versus Cordite.

Considering Cordite itself is more expensive to use than Lyddite with the only apparent benefit in game being that it's more stable than Lyddite and slightly less worse penetration at the cost of projectile range and, well cost.

It should be tweaked a bit because the preceding White Powder seems to be a much better choice in most metrics people will care about, less volatile, more range, and more flat damage for cheaper and lighter assuming no access to TNT which is fantastic, but also crazy expensive for ammunition.

Perhaps Cordite I can be moved to be unlocked after Lyddite II at the current cost of white powder and have Cordite II come after White Powder with some tweaks.

When I was reading about Cordite (mostly by following wikipedia sources), I distinctly remember that one of the evolutions of the explosive, at least by WWII, besides reformulating the powder to corrode the gun barrels less, was the fact that it was also used to reduce muzzle flash of the weapons firing it. Perhaps this powder type could reduce target signature of the firing ship to represent this? The easily accessible  historical information on this is sparse, so I don't really know what is a good buff for this explosive which won't throw other balance out of whack.

Either way, Cordite is bad, and really shouldn't be more expensive to use versus White Powder at minimum considering White Powder has both Cordites beat in every single way except "flash fire spreading chance" it seems. Even the "obsolete" powders like Guncotton and Ballistie are better and safer to use than Cordite.

Edited by AdmiralObvious
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21 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

In the upcoming build the respective component will be separated to Shell Charge / Propellant, so Cordite and other propellants/charges will get their realistic impact.

Awesome!

Thought I hope design saving also comes...

Edited by Stormnet
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33 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

In the upcoming build the respective component will be separated to Shell Charge / Propellant, so Cordite and other propellants/charges will get their realistic impact.

To be honest, it seems like a pretty large number of things are being added to the upcoming build. This, the campaign, presumably design saving, and so on and so forth. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lot of smaller updates rather than singular massive ones. Obviously, though, I'm not a developer on the game, or in general, so there may be behind-the-scenes considerations as well.

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11 minutes ago, Intrepid_Arty said:

To be honest, it seems like a pretty large number of things are being added to the upcoming build. This, the campaign, presumably design saving, and so on and so forth. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a lot of smaller updates rather than singular massive ones. Obviously, though, I'm not a developer on the game, or in general, so there may be behind-the-scenes considerations as well.

Too be fair, if they can push all of that at once then they can bug fix it all and find issues in one go, obviously campaign will take priority, but the core patches are meant to be pretty big patches, as they will change the game for good once released.

Once we reach core alpha patch 3 and 4 it should get smaller especially around 4 and afterwards they might do another batch of core alphas from 5-8.

Too be fair i can't wait, but still want them to take their time.

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Does this mean that ballistics are getting a re-work and will finally approximate the firing tables this community has been digging up for almost two years now? Ballistics: Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition, Third Edition provides the relevant information on propellents and bursting charges and of course Naval Firepower : Battleship Guns and Gunnery in the Dreadnought Era is the definite source. 

@Nick Thomadis at this point if you don't have a copy of Friedman's book, I will happily buy it for you. So many of the community's concerns could be rectified because nearly anything you would need to know or model in game is covered in exhausting detail. 

Still, this is a welcome change and on a personal note I'm glad you're active on the boards again. I hope you know we're all behind you on this and our criticism is coming from a place of appreciation for what you've set out to do here. 

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Is there any chance the US Navy's Explosive D will be added and properly represented with the powder/filler updates?  Reduced damage since it was weak as far as fillers go (roughly 0.95x of TNT), but exceptionally stable for greater pen and reduced detonation and fire chances.

Poudre B should also appear quite early in the tech trees as an ~1890 invention!

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On 7/17/2021 at 2:46 PM, Nick Thomadis said:

In the upcoming build the respective component will be separated to Shell Charge / Propellant, so Cordite and other propellants/charges will get their realistic impact.

That sounds interesting 

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My quick review of explosives:

  • Black Powder: It's the starting choice, not much can be expected.
  • Guncotton: The selling point is that it's not Black Powder. Getting rid of that 2% Hull Weight is well worth it, especially given that early hulls tend to have a high hull weight percentage.
  • Ballistite: The Disc-One Nuke of explosives. Due to the effect of range on accuracy, I rate each 1% range modifier as being worth between 1.5% damage or perhaps a bit more, so we're already sitting at a net of around +13%. Too bad this goes obsolete in 1906.
  • Lyddite I: Great against the AI who tends to use less than optimal armor on their designs, you can just blast your way through the enemy's structure points from any angle. Though I don't think it would work well if PvP were a thing, thick armor is OP right now but that's another story. Too bad this goes obsolete in 1914, but at least you get TNT in exchange.
  • Lyddite II: Pointless. If I'm going in on HE, I'm going all in with Lyddite I.
  • White Powder: Similar to Ballistite, except over twice as expensive. Someone in procurement must be getting kickbacks. At least the stats are good.
  • Cordite I: Absolutely horrible. If it weren't for the hull weight penalty, even Black Powder would give this a run for its money. I can't believe we gave up Ballistite for this.
  • Cordite II: Also horrible.
  • Tube Powder: Seems best for AP brawling at close range. Not terrible, but I'd probably stick with White Powder in most cases as it's cheaper and more versatile.
  • TNT: Finally a real upgrade from Ballistite. While expensive, the Hull Weight benefit is a nice cherry on top.
  • High TNT: Paying more for better HE; the AP is about a wash compared to regular TNT. IMO the choice comes down to budget.
Edited by Evil4Zerggin
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Posted (edited)

I just now realized this is what Ink on Discord probably meant about "super high explosive shells" to handle torpedo boats better than now with the current mechanics of full overpen.

Edited by AdmiralObvious
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