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Map View is needed or some kind of wargame zoom out feature


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5 hours ago, Skeksis said:

I do. No one will have an ability to keep multiple ships in formation for the very first time they play UAD, therefore it must be something that players learns, a skill.

In large battles, if you don't keep track of your ships they will spread out to 20-30km plus, just as Evil4Zerggin added, even in small to medium sized battles your ships can get out-off position very quickly, I agree with everybody on that, but that where it ends. 

The game and its players should have skills to learn, i.e. to manage ships in 3D and git gudda at it. 

Clicking any division or ship icon will send the camera on its way, no need for an extra 2D map to do the same thing.

Im gonna make a numbers argument instead.

If a map isnt needed, then why do the vast majority of RTS games (naval or on land) feature one? War on the Sea has a map, Rule the Waves is the map, so many naval RTS games either have a map or a minimap. What makes UA:D so special that I doesnt need one? Most of these games also dont usually pass the 40 ships mark, but they have a map.

 

"Feedback so far hasn’t being conclusive or evidential enough to show how that everybody obstacles will be resolve without decreasing 3D command content/volume with a 2D map. 3D interaction is this game content, to command over a battlefield in 3D, you can’t take that away for QOL, not in this case. QOL has to be balanced so as not to diminish actual game content."

And no. This isnt gonna reduce the 3D interation, all the orders and such will still be sent from "3D mode". The reason we bought a 3D Rule the Waves is to have nice looking 3D graphics. Im not gonna spend the entire battle on map mode. I wanna watch explosions and such. But we need a minimap/map to see how is the overall battle.

 

I need to know where the known enemy ships are overall to plan for. Where to reunite my forces, what weakspots on the enemy battlelines, what ships they have (that I know of) and where, and doing that by panning is not by skill, its just boring. As it was said above, admirals had dedicated staff working on gathering data from radars, lookouts, other ships, radio transmissions, and so on and then using that data to present a map of the overall battle that the Admiral could use to make decisions on. Right now we have to both scout, mentaly piece the map togheder, and make decisions on that. While we do have a god-ability at scouting, mentally piecing the positions of potentially 40 ships and their classes is a nightmare.

And yes, Im not going to only recon stuff by a map. Panning will still be perfectly okay for most situations. But there are gonna be those 10-20% of large number battles that simply need a map for coordination. 

 

We need something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/9-Ov-j1RPIU?enablejsapi=1

 

See this game? The numbers and "playground" size are much smaller than those of UA:D. But it has a map.

Do you see any reduction on 3D interaction? Does he only stare at the map? 

NO!

3D interation like you said is never detrimented. The ships are still commanded in 3D, most of the recon is done by panning. The game mode even has time control. But he does pull up the map when he needs a quick look at the overall fleet status.

 

 

Maybe you are a hardcore gamer that wants an challenge, and that's fine if you dont want features to be dumbed down. But lacking a basic feature that pretty much any game in the genre has is not a challenge, its just either an imcomplete game or a show of poor game design.

Edited by Stormnet
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Those who argue against having some form of mini-map are arguing against historical immersion because a fleet admiral would have a map on the bridge with plots on it to make decisions during battle. 

The map could easily be made toggle off for those with an absurd opposition to this feature.

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9 hours ago, Skeksis said:

I do. No one will have an ability to keep multiple ships in formation for the very first time they play UAD, therefore it must be something that players learns, a skill.

In large battles, if you don't keep track of your ships they will spread out to 20-30km plus, just as Evil4Zerggin added, even in small to medium sized battles your ships can get out-off position very quickly, I agree with everybody on that, but that where it ends. 

The game and its players should have skills to learn, i.e. to manage ships in 3D and git gudda at it. 

Clicking any division or ship icon will send the camera on its way, no need for an extra 2D map to do the same thing.

I... sure?

I'd much rather formations just hello kitty up on their own to simulate poor signals and the player deal with that as they see fit, with diminishing chances of formation snafus as technology progresses. It'd also be a nice way to make radios and crew training more important.

I'm not going to drag you for or argue over an opinion, it just feels like an artificial hurdle to me. My assumption is that skill you're seeking will come from designing your fleet to do a thing and then figuring out how to successfully fight it according to the strengths of that thing. As long as any given thing can more or less successfully counter another thing with player intervention, there will always be a skill threshold to overcome.

Edit: "hello kitty up?" LOL, now that's a creative profanity filter. 😄

Edited by killjoy1941
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Right now, there is almost no use for the radio techs in the game. Perhaps one could unlock a mini-map or something similar if they decide to equip a radio module like radio telegraph or RDF on one of their capital ships (BB and BC). Therefore, those who would like a mini-map could get it through radio techs, those who don't can just not equip a radio, and the radio techs would then have a useful purpose considering they add a lot of weight (15 or 25 percent increase in superstructure weight).

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