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Sorting divisions pre-battle


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Only read if RTW2 is still the inspiration.

Checkout TortugaPower video at 21:34, see his fleet sorter...

Rule the Waves 2 | Austria-Hungary - 03 - To War! - YouTube

We could do with one, similar but at pre-battle screen. If he felt the need for such a feature then UAD would probably need one too. It makes sense for us to have such a feature, to adjust the divisions after automation and before the battle starts. Sometimes dispatching at the start of your battle can muck up your start e.g. multiple collisions and avoidance manoeuvring, this can put ships into bad tactical positions for situations when the enemy is already in range.

Edited by Skeksis
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Posted (edited)

There’s something else in this video that’s very very very important…

Saving during battles.

For CCs, 30 minute videos seems about a good mark for uploading and stopping video’s. While they can cut an original longer version, this doesn’t seem to be the practice for most. They’re actually playing multiple games and recording each in episodic stages.

For us it’s day to day interruptions that causes us to stop playing (like sleep!) and we have to save our progress. And given the fire rate of early weapons, those early all-in battles are going to take quite some time to finish, actually any battle with 100 ships, even with time compression. And I suspect that we’ll be playing like TortugaPower (as in the video) and micromanaging most ships to win with best results, making battles comprehensive, time consuming.

Saving during battles must be as paramount as saving campaigns. 

Edited by Skeksis
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I would hope that the new mechanics mention also include something like a "deployment phase" or something like that.

 

Because I frankly would avoid placing the same formation on both side of another one like the plague.

It only leads to chaos in the fleet.

 

If we can deploy our fleet, this issue can be resolve at least for the player.

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Posted (edited)

I've been replaying TortugaPower's fleet battle from the video above but there is an annoying issue...

In the height of battle division icons can be accidentally dragged into another, messing up your whole fleet organization... and battle plan along with it, it happen more that once!

So I suggest a toggle 'lock button' to lock division ships into there division...  

cwh95pA.png

 

PS, If anyone is interested in recreating TortugaPower battle too, here's the spec's... 

Scenario: Part 2 - Austria vs Italy Fleet Battle September 1903

Fleet battle.
Difficulty: Normal.

Design Instructions and Order of Battle:

  • Design year:              1903, for both sides.
  • Design Class:            Any
  • Design Range:           Short min.
  • Starting distance:      21000m.

Your fleet - Austria-Hungary Empire.

  • 5 BBs, 3 CAs, 3 CLs, 7 DDs, 6 TRs. Plus allies (optional), 4 CLs, 6 DDs.

Enemy - Italy.

  • 6 BBs, 1 CA, 1 CL, 4 DDs, 11 TRs.

Victory Conditions:

  • Sink 80% enemy BBs
  • Keep 100% BBs alive.
  • Keep 100% CAs alive.
  • Keep 75% CLs alive.
  • Keep 50% DDs alive.
Edited by Skeksis
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Posted (edited)

TortugaPower playthrough recreation.

 

Scenario: Part 1 - Austria vs Italy First Campaign Battle July 1903.

Cruiser battle.
Difficulty: Novice.  

Design Instructions and Order of Battle:

  • Design year:          1903.
  • Design Class:         CL.
  • Design Range:       Short min.
  • Starting distance:  10000.

Your fleet - Austria-Hungary Empire.

  • 2 CLs.

Enemy - Italy.

  • 1 CL, 4 DDs, 13 TRs.

Victory Conditions:

  • Sink 100% enemy CL.
  • Sink 10% enemy TRs.
  • Keep 100% CLs alive. 

Notes.

TortugaPower Austro Hungary playthrough, to see how an UAD campaign might fair.
Difficulty levels: Novice, Normal, Challenging. 
AUXs, TLs represented as TRs.

KEs represented as DDs.
Tip: Retreat damage ships.
Campaign ends upon aircraft intro.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part 2 in post above.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario: Part 3 – Austria vs Italy Convoy Raid April 1905.

Convoy Raid.
Difficulty: Novice.  

Design Instructions and Order of Battle:

  • Design year:          1905.
  • Design Class:         Any
  • Design Range:       Short min.
  • Starting distance:  15000.

Your fleet - Austria-Hungary Empire.

  • 3 CAs, 3 CLs, 5 DDs, 6 TRs.

Enemy - Italy.

  • 2 CLs, 4 DDs, 14 TRs.

Victory Conditions:

  • Sink 25% enemy TRs.
  • Keep 100% CAs alive. 
  • Keep 100% CLs alive. 
  • Keep 80%  DDs alive. 
  • Keep 100% TRs alive. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario: Part 4 – Austria vs Italy Cruiser Battle May 1905.

Cruiser Battle.
Difficulty:
Normal.  

Design Instructions and Order of Battle:

  • Design year:          1905.
  • Design Class:         Any
  • Design Range:       Short min.
  • Starting distance:  15000.

Your fleet - Austria-Hungary Empire.

  • 2 CAs, 4 DDs, 6 TRs.

Enemy - Italy.

  • 2 CAs, 6 DDs, 11 TRs.

Victory Conditions:

  • Sink 50% enemy CAs.
  • Sink 50% enemy DDs.
  • Keep 100% CAs alive. 
  • Keep 100% DDs alive. 
  • Keep 100% TRs alive. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario: Part 5 – Austria vs Russian Cruiser Battle May 1912.

Cruiser Battle.
Difficulty: Normal.  

Design Instructions and Order of Battle:

  • Design year:          1912.
  • Design Class:         CA
  • Design Range:       Medium min.
  • Starting distance:  21000m.

Your fleet - Austria-Hungary Empire.

  • 1 CA, 3 DDs, 4 TRs.

Enemy - Russian.

  • 1 CA, 3 CLs, 2 DDs, 10 TRs.

Victory Conditions:

  • Sink 66% of CLs.
  • Keep 100% alive. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scenario: Part 6 (5a) – Austria vs Russian Cruiser Battle July 1912.

Cruiser Battle.
Difficulty: Novice.  

Design Instructions and Order of Battle:

  • Design year:          1912.
  • Design Class:         CA
  • Design Range:       Medium min.
  • Starting distance:  21000m.

Your fleet - Austria-Hungary Empire.

  • 1 CA, 11 TRs.

Enemy - Russian.

  • 1 CA, 10 TRs.

Victory Conditions:

  • Sink 100% of CAs.
  • Keep 100% alive. 
Edited by Skeksis
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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2021 at 9:00 PM, Skeksis said:

There’s something else in this video that’s very very very important…

Saving during battles.

For CCs, 30 minute videos seems about a good mark for uploading and stopping video’s. While they can cut an original longer version, this doesn’t seem to be the practice for most. They’re actually playing multiple games and recording each in episodic stages.

For us it’s day to day interruptions that causes us to stop playing (like sleep!) and we have to save our progress. And given the fire rate of early weapons, those early all-in battles are going to take quite some time to finish, actually any battle with 100 ships, even with time compression. And I suspect that we’ll be playing like TortugaPower (as in the video) and micromanaging most ships to win with best results, making battles comprehensive, time consuming.

Saving during battles must be as paramount as saving campaigns. 

Yeah, that is a problem on big fleet battles.

The AI cowardice doesnt help either. I've had a fleet vs fleet pre-dreadnought battle where both fleets have 1 Pre-Dread, 3 Armored Cruisers, and 7/8 CLs. The problem was, the AI just sends 2/3 grunts at a time. Combined with pre-dread innacuracy and slow speed, you have a long battle, and the fleet is not even that large.

Edited by Stormnet
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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Added this topic to this thread cause it’s kinda related to the reenactment scenarios above since they are based on keeping ships alive.

Keep Alive Topic.

I’ve been doing some battle simulations that might occur in the campaign (mostly the ones above except part 1) but I’m finding it very hard to keep alive Light Cruisers and Destroyers. I’m working on the premise of that there should be ship retention in the campaign and that the game isn’t going to be based on throwaway ships. Custom Battles is a throwaway ship module but we can still replicate battles to give us a general perception of things to come.

These simulations are for the timeframe before radar, 1890-1926.

If you use heavy armored units, capital ships only, the enemy will spot you first and blind fire, including torpedo’s, without you marking a target, so therefore you need scouts to find and spot the enemy, preferably stealthy DDs etc.

So then as soon as your DD spots the enemy (and more often than not they spot you first) the whole enemy fleet fires upon your DD (probably by radio tech advantages) and destroys it. Even if I purposely build stealthy DDs it doesn’t make any difference, one hit and DDs is done for soon after. They simply don't have the resilience to retreat in time. At least in the timeframe specified and especially pre 1914 DDs & CLs.

So if stealth, capital ships only and armored DDs can’t be strategies for ship retention, what can?

I know UAD is a different game and will have a different meta but surely the budget system isn’t going to be based on throwaway ship methodology – all in shoot-em-up meta. All games have a winning aspect to them and part of that is keeping your gear (even grinding to get it, the same thing). If you notice in RTW2 you don't actually lose too many ships, don't know this was purposed but ship retention is a thing and it's part of the winning formula i.e. human emotion.

At this point I can see us building hundreds of throwaway ships to support heavier units i.e. kamikaze scouts. But on the other hand Dev’s would have worked out the battle methodology and so I put my faith in that, I'll have to wait to see what actually is the meta.

These are just my thoughts so far on keeping ships alive.

Edited by Skeksis
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