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>>>2021 Development plans<<<


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4 hours ago, Skeksis said:

Because crews worked really well, if it didn't feedback would have been plentifully, i.e. nothing really to complain about (just alittle bit of the unknown too, of how crews will work within the campaign). 

And I like to think the current auto-design work wasn't coincidental but a result of feedback, pushed ahead of the campaign. 0.5 uncovered a few issues, most got fixed, probably got an extra week out of the team on fixes too, but overall clearing up a few issues first, per update, is still probably better than dropping the whole lot at once. Better to stabilize some things first (or get more stable!) before the full campaign, even stepping the campaign through limited drafts first. 

The campaign draft will up the ante on feedback anyway, feedback Dev's can use. 

Honestly, I'd decide we can all stuff it. The smaller the team, the more likely I'd be to ignore public pressure. It do be like that.

 

1 hour ago, T_the_ferret said:

Who would have thought a frustrated community getting no info and only being asked things or talked to when it specifically caters to the devs vision and for nothing else would not be willing to provide tons of useful feedback

It boggles the mind that an unhealthy community nurtured by the devs attitude would not help said devs

We're all, every single one, venture capitalists. Have you played the game enough to justify your $60 investment? I'm talking 1:1 here. Every single person on this forum gave Nick and his tiny-ass team money hoping he'd pull off a miracle in an ambitious attempt to make some kind of dreadnaught game.

 

There has never been a single guarantee of success.

 

I got my money's worth. Did you? Did you get a minimum of 60 hours of time out of this demo? I'm guessing that's a likely "yes" as things go. Did you have fun? You're a almost certainly a liar if you say no.

You get to demand nothing. You deserve nothing. In terms of usefulness, you are nothing.

Have fun demanding game changes.

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24 minutes ago, killjoy1941 said:

Honestly, I'd decide we can all stuff it. The smaller the team, the more likely I'd be to ignore public pressure. It do be like that.

 

We're all, every single one, venture capitalists. Have you played the game enough to justify your $60 investment? I'm talking 1:1 here. Every single person on this forum gave Nick and his tiny-ass team money hoping he'd pull off a miracle in an ambitious attempt to make some kind of dreadnaught game.

 

There has never been a single guarantee of success.

 

I got my money's worth. Did you? Did you get a minimum of 60 hours of time out of this demo? I'm guessing that's a likely "yes" as things go. Did you have fun? You're a almost certainly a liar if you say no.

You get to demand nothing. You deserve nothing. In terms of usefulness, you are nothing.

Have fun demanding game changes.

Well, no guarantee except every single expectation, deadline and roadmap set by the devs themselves on the forums and on Steam, which is precisely why a lot of people are talking about it. Nobody would care if the game just dropped out of radar with nothing done on it and they'd just assume its abandoned then move on. The problem are the constant broken promises, delays, cancelled deadlines and roadmaps as well as lack of communication

I like how you talk about the game like its a total fool's errand, and we're stupid for having given them money, and if you didn't get your money's worth in enjoyment by now its never gonna come and we're all dumb for rightfully asking how the game is going and why there has been so many delays

Its this toxic attitude of "take it or leave it, you paid anyway already, so hello kitty you and have fun being ignored" that made the game industry the mess it is today. As paying customers we are owed communication on a product we spent our money on and that was promised to be updated and taken care of

But tell you what, let's say you're right, then in return the game devs deserve nothing, and they get to demand nothing. They cannot ask of us useful feedback, more money or good publicity. Word of mouth can make or break games, and just like apparently we don't deserve communication and a polished product, they don't deserve to not have word of mouth spread about the disappointment that is this game and loss of sales that stem from it

You can treat your playerbase like shit on the assumption they already gave you money so there's nothing else they can do, it'll be given right back in the reviews, forums and everytime the game's talked about.

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27 minutes ago, T_the_ferret said:

Well, no guarantee except every single expectation, deadline and roadmap set by the devs themselves on the forums and on Steam, which is precisely why a lot of people are talking about it. Nobody would care if the game just dropped out of radar with nothing done on it and they'd just assume its abandoned then move on. The problem are the constant broken promises, delays, cancelled deadlines and roadmaps as well as lack of communication

I like how you talk about the game like its a total fool's errand, and we're stupid for having given them money, and if you didn't get your money's worth in enjoyment by now its never gonna come and we're all dumb for rightfully asking how the game is going and why there has been so many delays

Its this toxic attitude of "take it or leave it, you paid anyway already, so hello kitty you and have fun being ignored" that made the game industry the mess it is today. As paying customers we are owed communication on a product we spent our money on and that was promised to be updated and taken care of

But tell you what, let's say you're right, then in return the game devs deserve nothing, and they get to demand nothing. They cannot ask of us useful feedback, more money or good publicity. Word of mouth can make or break games, and just like apparently we don't deserve communication and a polished product, they don't deserve to not have word of mouth spread about the disappointment that is this game and loss of sales that stem from it

You can treat your playerbase like shit on the assumption they already gave you money so there's nothing else they can do, it'll be given right back in the reviews, forums and everytime the game's talked about.

Those "roadmaps" are dev-hopeful statements in a pre-alpha environment. Kindly source your "Constant broken promises, delays, canceled deadlines as well as lack of communication." and prove it's malicious.

I never once cited any such requirement for enjoyment, for anyone. You did, just now. Fill it yourself with documentation. I said we're all venture capitalists, which we are, and that we should govern our expectations, which we should. Go on, prove me wrong.

Nick and his team don't owe you jack or shit. You think they do because you spent money. They're not your slaves. Labor = money, and go suck yourself if you think otherwise. I 1,000,000% guarantee you they've spent ten times the work on the things you don't see v. the work you see. If you think being a software dev guarantees you a fair wage, you're a shitbag beyond compare. That absolutely, 100% extends to app development. Especially to game dev, since most people seem to think game dev means millionaires funding talented people at millions. Hint: You're wrong.

 Again, point me to more than half a dozen player criticisms of the crew systems. No? They don't exist? And the devs actually asked the players to submit that? Oh, I wonder why we have the standoff that currently exists!

Go on, be more of an idiot. Please. 🙄

Yes! Precisely! Go tell everyone you know how much of an ignorant team base they are!

It works both ways. If the player base treats the devs like trash, they'll stop talking.

That's shit, the industry is shit, people are shit, and a few of us make dozens of dollars per commission. Go challenge that, I double, triple dare you.

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I never said those were malicious, but if you want sources for those delays, broken promises and roadmaps you can just look at the news of the game, such as the steam release being delayed 2-3 times, 2 roadmaps being put out with the current one on track to be scrapped, and everytime devs gave us a release date for something that ended up being false

We govern our expectations depending on the little communication we get from the team. The team said the steam release would be 2019, so we expect it to be so. Then 2020, we expect it to be so, then 2021, we expect it to be so. The devs promise 4 core update in 2021, we expect it to be so. We govern our expectations exactly to what the devs promise us and say the roadmap/release date is, and nothing more.

Concerning criticism, it clearly doesn't come from "half a dozen people" as i am myself proof. I've never posted before and just quietly followed news about the game, and i kept seeing more and more warning signs. Look to the steam forums, filled with way more than half a dozen people being hopeless in development and critizing it. Look to this forum and see more than half a dozen people critizing the cycle.

You can make your messages as aggressive as you want, all it does is end up making it look like you have no hope in either side and insult the devs as much as the community. After all its our own fault for trusting them

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Miracle?

They just had to make RTW 2 3D. This was not uncharted territory. There have been generations of successful naval sims - Jutland Pro comes to mind - so it’s not like they were pioneers who had to figure out how to model naval gunnery and terminal ballistics. 
 

You’ve overstated the innovation. Lots of work? Of course, but nothing particularly on the cutting edge.

 

What the hello kitty is up with the little soapbox display of Ayn Rand?

”hello kitty you, pay me” Is not going to cut it in this, or any industry, and going to bat for them out of some weird ideological drive just makes you look like a weirdo.

Edited by DougToss
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Please, we're all paying customers and legally, we deserve and also expect what the developers say they're trying to achieve. (Especially for 40 POUNDS!) 

For example, you buy a fully fledged game, yet it doesn't have what it advertised, that is lying, and if never achieved, possibly fraud. This isn't the case, but the developers are being too ambitious here, and we have EVERY right to complain of that. We payed them our money, and legally we have every right to criticise. 

Go see a lawyer and they'll tell you everything you need to know. 

Edited by Commander Reed
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Saying "You get to demand nothing. You deserve nothing. In terms of usefulness, you are nothing. " isnt all that fair to the customer and community.

Customers who purchased early access make and can break this game if the dev's continue to refuse to communicate with the community, potential buyers and influencers/YouTuber's for this game. I've seen plenty of people completely drop hope for the game and lose potential buyers while the original fan base continues declining. The people who stay continue to get irritated and vent that frustration toward other people who are also annoyed causing stupid fights between fans creating a toxic community.

So are you saying people who purchased the game are useless? Are you saying people who find bugs with the game that the dev's fail to find are useless? Are you saying people who give valid complaints and suggestions and show what could be are useless? Are you saying because we forked over our money to this project means we deserve a product that fails to deliver because of dev's trying to much too fast with their limited resources?

The current crisis in the community can be easily and swiftly solved by the dev's, every time a content update is dropped a portion of us calm down and continue to give praise all because they said something or did something. Bi-weekly or monthly blogs can go a long way, even live streams from they're YouTube channel to show off what they are doing and answer community questions goes an extremely long way.

Another game that has pretty terrible feedback from dev's but does interact somewhat is the Space Engineers developers. They hardly release content and when they do its behind pay walls. But they at least do streams, hold events, show hints and screenshots, answer questions on streams and sometimes drop new upcoming content trailers. Although they are notorious for the semi-recent streak of pay wall content and relying on modders for new ideas they at least to some level try to keep the community satisfied till the next relevant thing which is something that is needed here.

Remarks as stated at the beginning will not help anyone especially the stuff killjoy is saying.

Edited by Noobito
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On 11/5/2021 at 11:31 PM, killjoy1941 said:

The smaller the team, the more likely I'd be to ignore public pressure.

You're right, players don't understand how Dev's always follow their path regardless, but wrong about fandom generation from free and cheap forums (suppose to anyways).

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1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

That one was done by two people as far as I know. It had a fantastic campaign. 
 

So no - a small team isn’t an issue as long as you stick to simple visuals and models 

📞”Hello? Storm Eagle Studios? I see it’s been a while since you had a release and you’re reluctant to move to Steam. We’ve been working on a game for a while and think it will be a hit once we iron some of the kinks out. We already have pre-order sales and Steam distribution set up.  How would you like to work with our team on gunnery, ship mechanics and campaign?”

 

Unbelievable. I had no idea they had such a small team, considering how much they did. 

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3 hours ago, DougToss said:

📞”Hello? Storm Eagle Studios? I see it’s been a while since you had a release and you’re reluctant to move to Steam. We’ve been working on a game for a while and think it will be a hit once we iron some of the kinks out. We already have pre-order sales and Steam distribution set up.  How would you like to work with our team on gunnery, ship mechanics and campaign?”

 

Unbelievable. I had no idea they had such a small team, considering how much they did. 

I am not 100% sure but I did read about the development of that game (as it is still one of my absolute favourites) and I was surprised how small the team was 

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Great game so far!

I have one question/suggestion though. When it eventually is released on steam, will there be a multiplayer mode added to the game where you can battle the fleets of your steam friends? That would be a cool feature in my opinion. Battling the ships of your own design against that of your friends.

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On 11/5/2021 at 1:14 PM, killjoy1941 said:

Those "roadmaps" are dev-hopeful statements in a pre-alpha environment. Kindly source your "Constant broken promises, delays, canceled deadlines as well as lack of communication." and prove it's malicious.

I never once cited any such requirement for enjoyment, for anyone. You did, just now. Fill it yourself with documentation. I said we're all venture capitalists, which we are, and that we should govern our expectations, which we should. Go on, prove me wrong.

Nick and his team don't owe you jack or shit. You think they do because you spent money. They're not your slaves. Labor = money, and go suck yourself if you think otherwise. I 1,000,000% guarantee you they've spent ten times the work on the things you don't see v. the work you see. If you think being a software dev guarantees you a fair wage, you're a shitbag beyond compare. That absolutely, 100% extends to app development. Especially to game dev, since most people seem to think game dev means millionaires funding talented people at millions. Hint: You're wrong.

 Again, point me to more than half a dozen player criticisms of the crew systems. No? They don't exist? And the devs actually asked the players to submit that? Oh, I wonder why we have the standoff that currently exists!

Go on, be more of an idiot. Please. 🙄

Yes! Precisely! Go tell everyone you know how much of an ignorant team base they are!

It works both ways. If the player base treats the devs like trash, they'll stop talking.

That's shit, the industry is shit, people are shit, and a few of us make dozens of dollars per commission. Go challenge that, I double, triple dare you.

Well man I think you are quite wrong in your understanding of how this works, how customers can be treated and how you express yourself about those customers. We are not venture capitalists here because we have not bought shares of a company and will have no monetary benefit at all it the game is a success. We are customers that have bought a product with the information of a prolonged delivery time. The same happens when you by a new car, sometimes you wait months but the car arrives. 

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What the hell is going on here?!

———

Anyway - I am precisely in the right mood for this game, and I am really looking forward to play the first iteration of the campaign and test it

 

@Nick Thomadis - what is your current view on the campaign work? Not with regard to core patches or whatever, but can you share your view on how things go? I think most of us are interested in testing a campaign version once you have a build that is somewhat working and test-able?

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On 11/8/2021 at 12:09 PM, Jans said:

Well man I think you are quite wrong in your understanding of how this works, how customers can be treated and how you express yourself about those customers. We are not venture capitalists here because we have not bought shares of a company and will have no monetary benefit at all it the game is a success. We are customers that have bought a product with the information of a prolonged delivery time. The same happens when you by a new car, sometimes you wait months but the car arrives. 

 

No, that's not how it works. We gave them money on the idea that they would provide a product...

maybe.

 

There's no guarantee... None.

It's 100% venture capital, but you're paying for an end-state, not a guaranteed product delivery. Go read the fine print you skipped when you agreed to fund their game. You have no guarantees.

Honestly? That's how indie game dev works. They try to raise the necessary funds to pay their basic bills, then they spend enough time to accumulate enough work to demonstrate their product, or they fall on their faces.

You are one of many VC investments: We are... probably all of 40% of investments. Show how else do we fit into the the dev model? Are you personally going to spend $10mil to guarantee submarines get developed? Should they use money to make that happen? Should they make that illegal? Should they make it an unenforced crime?

There is no currency investment stream into game dev enthusiasts. They get no money, no placement, no help of any kind.

I dare you to apply for work in this field. I DARE you.

It's the province of the dedicated, the passionate, the committed, and the occasional rich...

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