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An Opinion on UA:D from a guy thats new to the Naval strategy Genre.


weaponizedautism
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after watching a couple of Videos on youtube about this game i decided to support it and try out the Alpha. My only background with Naval games was WOWS which i don't really like because lack of realism, And Battlestations Midway/Pacific when i was a kid. which i did like alot. 

I like this game alot. the freedom to build everything you want within realistic limits is  an awesome gameplay mechanic. The battles themself are Epic and even while i do not understand exactly all of the mechanics at work under the hood it is very immersive. The game Runs like a charm as well. which i had not expected from an Alpha.

the few downsides i have discovered are the lack of a Tutorial. if it was not for me having watched video,s about the game, i would have been completely lost. While the Help manual does go into some of the game mechanics. it barely scratches the surface. a comprehensive step by step tutorial on the innerworkings of the game is a must to not overwhelm new players.another downside is some academy missions gives you too few time to complete them. Also where the hell is the Netherlands as a faction?:P  its a naval game and seeing My country which had a rich Naval history not in the game, but china is. just stings.

i would also love to see more different Hulls. maybe Nation specific Hulls as well for some of the bigger factions to recreate historical ships. another thing which might be interesting to add is an Interior designer. which let you decide where to put the engine,ammo storage etc. or maybe this goes to far into the design aspects.

Keep doing your exceptional work Developers!. There clearly is put alot of love into the game. i can see that,.

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1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

the few downsides i have discovered are the lack of a Tutorial. if it was not for me having watched video,s about the game, i would have been completely lost. While the Help manual does go into some of the game mechanics. it barely scratches the surface. a comprehensive step by step tutorial on the innerworkings of the game is a must to not overwhelm new players.

Well when you ask about tutorial there are Academy missions they are supposed to be the tutorial. And I think these are good enough for tutorial. Of course these will mainly teach you basics of the combat and not designing. But I would say that the designing part is quite straightforward. Just ask yourself what would be in such tutorial? Some instructions like: ,,At the screen you see a hull of Light cruiser. Now click at the button Main towers. Select one of them and place it on the point on the prow of ship.'' Is this really something we need?

1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

Also where the hell is the Netherlands as a faction?:P  its a naval game and seeing My country which had a rich Naval history not in the game, but china is. just stings.

Well they just had to choose some nations to add to the game. Sure, the Netherlands have rich naval history but not in the time period the game is set (1890-1940). In this time period Netherlands wasn't major naval power and it didn't participate in any big naval engagement (besides ww2 which is at the very end of the time period and I think that even here the Dutch naval involvement wasn't that big). Don't get me wrong I would like to see as many countries in the game as possible but I think that the selection of the current ones is very nice and we there would be more of them coming in the future, Netherlands wouldn't be high on my list.

And if you ask why China: China participated in First Sino-Japanese War and I think that that is very interesting topic for alternative history. Because if China would defeat Japan the historical development in Asia would be probably completaly different. Also I think that the theme of China getting rid of foreign influence would be really interecting if it would be somehow implemented into the game. For example in the political events.

Edited by Aceituna
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43 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

Well when you ask about tutorial there are Academy missions they are supposed to be the tutorial. And I think these are good enough for tutorial. Of course these will mainly teach you basics of the combat and not designing. But I would say that the designing part is quite straightforward. Just ask yourself what would be in such tutorial? Some instructions like: ,,At the screen you see a hull of Light cruiser. Now click at the button Main towers. Select one of them and place it on the point on the prow of ship.'' Is this really something we need?

Well they just had to choose some nations to add to the game. Sure, the Netherlands have rich naval history but not in the time period the game is set (1890-1940). In this time period Netherlands wasn't major naval power and it didn't participate in any big naval engagement (besides ww2 which is at the very end of the time period and I think that even here the Dutch naval involvement wasn't that big). Don't get me wrong I would like to see as many countries in the game as possible but I think that the selection of the current ones is very nice and we there would be more of them coming in the future, Netherlands wouldn't be high on my list.

And if you ask why China: China participated in First Sino-Japanese War and I think that that is very interesting topic for alternative history. Because if China would defeat Japan the historical development in Asia would be probably completaly different. Also I think that the theme of China getting rid of foreign influence would be really interecting if it would be somehow implemented into the game. For example in the political events.

China also had no interesting Naval history happening in the time period the game is set. alternate history is besides the point. i could also do a "What if the netherlands took part in WW1 and teamed up with the German navy " which is something they were considering IRL. to make the exact same argument which is pointless.. even other country,s like Spain which  also are  in thegame  were not Relevant in that period. so you cannot use that excuse.

The dutch navy played a vital part in the ABDA fleet in the pacific war during WW2. taking part in the battle for the Java sea which was 1 of the largest naval Engagements in History. Dutch subs continued to play a role in both the Pacific and North atlantic. Yes we were not a major naval power but the ships we did have participated in decisive battles. unlike China and Spain.

Naval academy is a lose set of missions at this point. it does not give any guidance in the form of tooltips or an advisor telling you on "Why you have to Angle" or "which ammo type should i use on what ship in this situation" So if they are supposed to be the tutorial. it is right now doing a pretty bad job at it. 

EDIT: I am not saying adding the dutch should be a high priority or anything. what i am saying is that they should be added eventually and that there is no reason not to. atleast not a reason that also can be applied to China.

Edited by weaponizedautism
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15 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

If you consider this term, ‘trial and error tutorials’, then the first few tutorials make sense, like they not teaching per say but more of a hands on experience, typical of GameLabs tutorials.    

Oke sure. but considering the scale and depth of the game a comprehensive tutorial would be better to atract a larger audiance.i guess the developers want people to buy the game and not instantly refund it because they do not understand anything in the game and what purpose it serves.

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4 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

but considering the scale and depth of the game

Then there target audience must be of those who are technically inclined, like you can’t just slap a ship together and win, reading and improving specs has to be a player skill already, with that I would say the current missions in the steps they are laid out are adequate.

Edited by Skeksis
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fair point. 

still i cannot see how making the game more accessable to newcomers when it comes to a tutorial is a bad thing. it only gives benefits in regards to community and selling the game to more people. for someone "technically inclined" like me the game still raises many questions. like bow and aft weight being not inbalance and the effects this have. what kind of percentage is acceptable and unacceptable?. maybe they want you to experiment with it yourself by trial and error. and i do not mind. but the point i am trying to get across is the game causing frustration rather then enjoyment for new players. which is always bad in a game. no matter what.

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2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

China also had no interesting Naval history happening in the time period the game is set. 

I suppose that depends on the point of view. I think that First Sino-Japanese war is very interesting (and kind of forgotten) topic. Because before the war the Chinese navy was dominant naval force in the East Asia. Also the outcome of the war brought Japan into the club of superpowers.

 

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

Alternate history is besides the point.

Saying that in the forum dedicated to a game that will be based on alternate history doesn't seem clever to me.

 

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

i could also do a "What if the netherlands took part in WW1 and teamed up with the German navy

Well I think there's difference between examples proposed by both of us. I talked about changing outcome of an actual war while you proposed entirely new event. I see difference between these two but again it probably depends on a point of view. Also I think that there's a big difference in the importance of these two examples. Preventing Japan from becoming superpower would have great impact on history. While impact of Netherlands joining ww1 is debatable (if we talk only about situation on the see).

I take informations about the ships from here: https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/ww1/dutch-navy

You said that Dutch planned this. I didn't find any actual plannes so I don't know what Dutch admiralty planned (if you have such source please send it to me, it might be interesting readind) but I don't think that reinforcing Hochseeflotte with metropolitan Dutch fleet would make it much stronger not to mention catching up on Royal Navy. And about East Indies: The naval warfare here might be quite interesting. And it might serve as station for German raiders. But since the East Indies were surrounded by British and French collonies and Japan was part of Entente and it needed raw materials (that East Indies posessed) the outcome of conflict here is certain. 

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

The dutch navy played a vital part in the ABDA fleet in the pacific war during WW2. taking part in the battle for the Java sea which was 1 of the largest naval Engagements in History.

 

I read analysis of battle of Java sea in the book from Tameichi Hara (famous captain of destroyer) and it's interesting topic for sure (as it was one of the very few major naval engagements of ww2 that contained planes only as reconnaissance). But since when is Battle of Java sea one of the largest naval engagements in history?

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

Dutch subs continued to play a role in both the Pacific and North atlantic.

Yeah Dutch subs participated in war but I don't think that it's that relevant because submarines are only addition in the game not it's core.

 

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

ut the ships we did have participated in decisive battles. unlike China and Spain.

Chinese and Spanish participated in desicive battles same as Dutch ships. For example: Battle of Yalu river, Battle of Manila Bay or Battle of Santiago de Cuba.

 

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

Naval academy is a lose set of missions at this point. it does not give any guidance in the form of tooltips or an advisor telling you on "Why you have to Angle" or "which ammo type should i use on what ship in this situation" So if they are supposed to be the tutorial. it is right now doing a pretty bad job at it. 

I am sorry but aren't these things straight forward? (I probably can't judge this because I am in the game for too long and I don't see it from a position of newcomer). And by the way these tooltips are in the game (in manual and on the loading screen pictures)

 

2 hours ago, weaponizedautism said:

I am not saying adding the dutch should be a high priority or anything. what i am saying is that they should be added eventually and that there is no reason not to.

Sure there's no reason for not adding Netherlands (besides lack of time) and I would like to have it as playable country but I think that if there will ever be more countries there are other countries that should have advantage (added sooner) such as Ottoman Empire. 

Edited by Aceituna
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59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

Saying that in the forum dedicated to a game that will be based on alternate history doesn't seem clever to me.

it,s besides the point of why the Netherlands should not be added from a Historic context compared to China. which is what we are discussing remember? you are literally saying china has more of a right to be in the game because of a "what if"scenario Compared to What the dutch Navy actually did Historically. which isn't clever.

59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

I suppose that depends on the point of view. I think that First Sino-Japanese war is very interesting (and kind of forgotten) topic. Because before the war the Chinese navy was dominant naval force in the East Asia. Also the outcome of the war brought Japan into the club of superpowers.

 

if it wasn't for the fact that the sino japanese war is out of timeframe for this game. which is 1899 up to 1940, not 1890 to 1940 like you mentioned. the sino japanese war ended in 1895. so your argument is invalid

 

59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

Well I think there's difference between examples proposed by both of us. I talked about changing outcome of an actual war while you proposed entirely new event. I see difference between these two but again it probably depends on a point of view. Also I think that there's a big difference in the importance of these two examples. Preventing Japan from becoming superpower would have great inpact on history. While impact of Netherlands joining ww1 is debatable (if we talk only about situation on the see).

Jutland comes to mind. the Germans were on the edge of victory there. the dutch navy being there  could have given them the deciding edge. not to even mention the strategic advantage North sea dutch ports would give to the Germans.taking all this into account. this alternate history scenario would influence the world much more then your sino-japanese conflict scenario

 

59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

You said that Dutch planned this. I didn't find any actual plannes so I don't know what Dutch admiralty planned (if you have such source please send it to me, it might be interesting readind) but I don't think that reinforcing Hochseeflotte with metropolitan Dutch fleet would make it much stronger not to mention catching up on Royal Navy. And about East Indies: The naval warfare here might be quite interesting. And it might serve as station for German raiders. But since the East Indies were surrounded by British and French collonies and Japan was part of Entente and it needed raw materials (that East Indies posessed) the outcome of conflict here is certain. 

I did not say they planned this. i said they were considering it. thats a difference. The dutch Were not fond of the Brits after the Boer war which ended not to long ago when WW1 started, they did not have good relations with the Entente. While German relations were on good terms. taking into account the Dutch Royal family was largely German it isn;t far fetched to see them joining if things wen't slightly differently.like the accidental sinking of a dutch ship by british submarines. also very influential dutch people in the governement had sympathy for Germany. like our prime minister cort van der linden. who was openly sympathetic to the Germans.

 

 

59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

I read analysis of battle of Java sea in the book from Tameichi Hara (famous captain of destroyer) and it's interesting topic for sure (as it was one of the very few major naval engagements of ww2 that contained planes only as reconnaissance). But since when is Battle of Java sea one of the largest naval engagements in history?

was confusing java sea with coral sea here. which was 1 of the larger battles. i like the battle more for the reason the dutch grand admiral died during a suicide charge against the japanese navy while shouting over the radio"ik val aan! volg mij!" which means " i will attack! follow me!" he is basicly where the saying "dutch courage" comes from

 

59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

Yeah Dutch subs participated in war but I don't think that it's that relevant because submarines are only addition in the game not it's core.

so that means dutch naval power was not only active in the pacific like you stated in your other comment. that is what i was disproving here

 

59 minutes ago, Aceituna said:

Chinese and Spanish participated in desicive battles same as Dutch ships. For example: Battle of Yalu river, Battle of Manila Bay or Battle of Santiago de Cuba.

battle of santiage de cuba was in 1898. timeframe of the game is 1899 to 1940.so nice try here.battle of yalu river is 1894. also out of timeframe. same goes for manila bay which also was in 1898. every example is out of timeframe.  we could say close enough, but seeing that you are quite nitpicky as well with your statements. please allow me to be aswell.

 

 

 

Edited by weaponizedautism
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1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

besides the point of why the Netherlands should not be added from a Historic context compared to China. which is what we are discussing remember? you are literally saying china has more of a right to be in the game because of a "what if"scenario Compared to What the dutch Navy actually did Historically. which isn't clever.

When I wrote about Sino-Japanese war I was only responding to the event you proposed (Dutch joining ww1) not the actual historical events.

Even if we take alternative history out of this. Sino-Japanese war actually happened while the Netherland involvement in ww1 didn't.

1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

it wasn't for the fact that the sino japanese war is out of timeframe for this game. which is 1899 up to 1940, not 1890 to 1940 like you mentioned. the sino japanese war ended in 1895. so your argument is invalid

Now I understant why you misinterpreted the previous part.             Campaing actually starts in 1890. I qoute the website ( https://www.dreadnoughts.ultimateadmiral.com/the-playing-modes):following nations that are available with their historical borders from the Imperialism Era to the Interwar Period  (1890-1930 +):

 

Will respond to the rest in the morning. It's quite difficult to write on the forum on mobile phone

Edited by Aceituna
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1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:
1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

 

 

1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

Jutland comes to mind. the Germans were on the edge of victory there. the dutch navy being there  could have given them the deciding edge. not to even mention the strategic advantage North sea dutch ports would give to the Germans.taking all this into account. this alternate history scenario would influence the world much more then your sino-japanese conflict scenario

I wouldn't say that germans were on the edge of victory since both germans and british claimed to be victorious. I don't think that we should take this on Jutland because the whole strategic situation would be different so Jutland probably wouldn't happen (at least not the same way).

This of course depends on opinion but I just don't think that Dutch navy would make much difference in the conflict. Just from the numbers.

1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

I did not say they planned this. i said they were considering it.

Oh, I get it now. So I assume you talked about the possibility of Netherlands goverment joining the war, right? When you said ,,team up with German navy'' I thought you talked about that admirality was considering that.

___________________________________________

Quote: so that means dutch naval power was not only active in the pacific like you stated in your other comment. that is what i was disproving here

 

Excuse, me? Where did I write that?

1 hour ago, weaponizedautism said:

battle of santiage de cuba was in 1898. timeframe of the game is 1899 to 1940.so nice try here.battle of yalu river is 1894. also out of timeframe. same goes for manila bay which also was in 1898. every example is out of timeframe.  we could say close enough, but seeing that you are quite nitpicky as well with your statements. please allow me to be aswell.

As I wrote at the beginning. The campaing starts in 1890.

 

 

Edited by Aceituna
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I agree with OP strongly - this game does and will need far better tutorials for new players, both in ship builder, and battle mechanics. A lack of this will kill its appeal to a wider audience outside of the hardcore dreadheads that dominate this forum currently. 

Feedback from players new to the game is every bit as important - perhaps more so in certain areas - than that from those hardcore enthusiasts that have been immersed in development from first Alpha. 

 

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3 hours ago, Squatter said:

I agree with OP strongly - this game does and will need far better tutorials for new players, both in ship builder, and battle mechanics. A lack of this will kill its appeal to a wider audience outside of the hardcore dreadheads that dominate this forum currently. 

Feedback from players new to the game is every bit as important - perhaps more so in certain areas - than that from those hardcore enthusiasts that have been immersed in development from first Alpha. 

 

Too be honest, even with great tutorials unless the player is forced to go through with them, most will skip them regardless. Also not everyone here whos enthusiastic about this game is some 'dreadhead' some like myself came from wows with little to no naval background or knowledge and still want the game to be fully fleshed out, especially the designer.

What i don't want to happen thats happened to many games is for it too be dumbed down for the common denominator and to produce gameplay or even have various features removed or 'balanced' because a few people found it too hard. Or the game dumbed down to make it easier to manipulate people into giving away their money and creating another boring cashcow.

Just look at weegees titles at how they could have extra info about sigma values and pen values but according to them that would make it 'too confusing' for players.

Here on the forums its mostly split in-between those in favour of mostly a greater design and alt historical focus with a more relaxed approach to gameplay and opposite being what you call dreadheads or grogs as some call them, who focus on near-perfect realism, history and simulation making it more situated to realistic gameplay as a whole.

I'd rather players be enthusiastic about this game than people screeching in here spamming the same thread over and over or just demanding features that wouldn't make sense otherwise (like modern combat for example).

Mods will be the defining factor as whether this game will continue to be alive or not, garrys mod being an excellent example of game built purely on mods, addons and assets cobbled together with no direction, bar what players make of it.

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3 hours ago, Squatter said:

I agree with OP strongly - this game does and will need far better tutorials for new players, both in ship builder, and battle mechanics. A lack of this will kill its appeal to a wider audience outside of the hardcore dreadheads that dominate this forum currently. 

Feedback from players new to the game is every bit as important - perhaps more so in certain areas - than that from those hardcore enthusiasts that have been immersed in development from first Alpha. 

 

I still don't get what's so difficult to understand about this game, it's fairly self explanatory. Maybe knowing armor thickness I can understand being confusing, but everything else tells you what it does pretty explicitly in the designer. 

Combat as well, it's pretty easy to get the hang of and the first 3 academy missions are a pretty decent enough tutorial in my opinion. The rest of the academy missions shouldn't be taken as tutorials and more just as challenges.

 

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Quote

@Squatter ...

I agree with OP strongly

Naval Action is setup the same way, tutorials merge into challenges, GameLabs just don’t do nice voiceover tutorials like War Thunder.

You’re petty much thrown into the deep end.

What GameLabs-UADs would probably do is more basic academy missions, if they thought it was needed but definitely no husky-Russian voiceovers!

 

Edited by Skeksis
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