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Double Shot and Double Charge at close range


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With respect to destroying the enemy faster at close range, are either (or both) of Double Shot and Double Charge upgrades worth their cost and weight? 

The description of Double Charge suggests benefit of longer range, but does it penetrate better at short range, in a way that gets the enemy to sink sooner?  Does the Double Shot deal sufficiently more damage to be worth the expense?

(I'm planning to put these on a Victory 1st rate and use it against a Victory or Satisima.)

Edited by Yaramir
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7 hours ago, Yaramir said:

With respect to destroying the enemy faster at close range, are either (or both) of Double Shot and Double Charge upgrades worth their cost and weight? 

The description of Double Charge suggests benefit of longer range, but does it penetrate better at short range, in a way that gets the enemy to sink sooner?  Does the Double Shot deal sufficiently more damage to be worth the expense?

(I'm planning to put these on a Victory 1st rate and use it against a Victory or Satisima.)

I’d guess it’s the way you suggest, But i haven’t tried it yet.

Tip: Create a custom battle, equip the ships you want in the way you want and see for yourself.

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9 hours ago, Navalus Magnus said:

I’d guess it’s the way you suggest, But i haven’t tried it yet.

Tip: Create a custom battle, equip the ships you want in the way you want and see for yourself.

Thanks, and good tip.  I'll try it.  Was thinking someone may know or hint at the quantitative parameters of how these shots are programmed/calculated to behave in the game.  In a custom battle, it may take several trials and potentially inconclusive, but a fun test either way.

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On 9/24/2020 at 12:57 PM, Yaramir said:

Thanks, and good tip.  I'll try it.  Was thinking someone may know or hint at the quantitative parameters of how these shots are programmed/calculated to behave in the game.  In a custom battle, it may take several trials and potentially inconclusive, but a fun test either way.

I could tell you how they work in Naval Action. 🙂

Double Charge give you greater penetration. Double shot gives you 50% greater damage but is inaccurate at anything but short range and loses penetration. The range should be reflected on the map in UAAOS. Historically double ball (or Triple shot as loaded on the Victory at Trafalgar) was loaded as an initial broadside if a ship was closing to pistol range, 50m or less. It was highly inaccurate. Often a ship would load ball + grape on the Quarter deck guns as an antipersonnel load. Double shot is trickier because it risked blowing up your own gun! 

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I have a question? A short gun shot is not affective at long distant as a musket could shoot at a longer distance. My question is if you put double the black powder into a gun shouldn't that be what could exploded the gun not that you put two round balls in it?  If for an example you have a musket and you put two round balls into it with a regular load of black powder wouldn't that be as if it were a short gun load which is not accurate at long range however I would think if you put double the black powder into what normally just requires a single black powder load wouldn't that be what gives it a chance to blow up? I guess, I am confused about Double shot risked blowing gun but to me I think doubling black powder load should be the reason for a possible explosion not putting double round ball into a gun with a regular load would do that but if you do put double black powder into any gun then yeah it could explode?  

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On 9/25/2020 at 12:12 PM, DeRuyter said:

I could tell you how they work in Naval Action. 🙂

Double Charge give you greater penetration. Double shot gives you 50% greater damage but is inaccurate at anything but short range and loses penetration. The range should be reflected on the map in UAAOS. Historically double ball (or Triple shot as loaded on the Victory at Trafalgar) was loaded as an initial broadside if a ship was closing to pistol range, 50m or less. It was highly inaccurate. Often a ship would load ball + grape on the Quarter deck guns as an antipersonnel load. Double shot is trickier because it risked blowing up your own gun! 

Thanks, DeRuyter!

On 9/27/2020 at 1:26 PM, doublebuck said:

I have a question? A short gun shot is not affective at long distant as a musket could shoot at a longer distance. My question is if you put double the black powder into a gun shouldn't that be what could exploded the gun not that you put two round balls in it?  If for an example you have a musket and you put two round balls into it with a regular load of black powder wouldn't that be as if it were a short gun load which is not accurate at long range however I would think if you put double the black powder into what normally just requires a single black powder load wouldn't that be what gives it a chance to blow up? I guess, I am confused about Double shot risked blowing gun but to me I think doubling black powder load should be the reason for a possible explosion not putting double round ball into a gun with a regular load would do that but if you do put double black powder into any gun then yeah it could explode?  

Doublebuck, I have little historical knowledge on this aspect, but I can comment from a physics perspective.  You are likely correct about the risk with doubling charge/powder.  Having extra balls/shot in the cannon could also increase risk by increasing reflected pressure. (For every action, there is equal and opposite reaction.) So having more to push out of the cannon, means that the cannon's integrity at the back end needs to be able to resist that added pressure.  Additionally, I can imagine that the interaction of two propelled balls within the cannon's bore may lead to significant off-axis pressure, potentially increasing chance of a rupture somewhere along the bore.  I imaging the biggest risk is the former rather than the latter.

Edited by Yaramir
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Thanks for your information. I guess we could agree that each of those two upgrades may have a % of risk considering the gun wasn't made for that procedure when the gun was first created. Of course, I think of that only in terms of common sense, not, true factual information. Even without using any of those upgrades on our ship sometimes a ship just blows up anyway so for me, why take a risk like that into a sea battle. I rather use other safe upgrades for my ships but each of us play differently and that's fine.

It's a small part of the many things that helps to make this game fun.

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