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Brigand

List of ships and other vessels in the game

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French 118-gun :

- 1786 :  32×36pd + 34x24pd + 34×12pd + 18x8pd + 6×36pd 124 guns

- 1807/1812 : 32×36pd + 34×24pd + 34×18pd + 14×8pd + 12×36pd 132 guns

Edited by Charles-René Magon
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French 118-gun :

- 1786 :  32 × 36pd + 34 × 24pd + 34 × 12pd + 18 × 8pd + 6 × 36pd 124 guns

- 1807/1812 : 32 × 36pd + 34 × 24pd + 34 × 18pd + 14 × 8pd + 12 × 36pd 132 guns

 

Because so many ships have been upgraded through their career, it would be too complicated to list all their loadouts in one table. When I first started, I had the latest loadout of the ships career listed, but since some of the ships are quite modern, their loadout was updated later than the 1830s, so outside the period of the game. So, instead I choose to list the first/initial loadout for ships.

 

Hope this explains it,

Brigand

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Don't forget that progress in metalurgy brought lighter cannons that could shoot same balls.

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Table updated, historic broadside weight is now converted from national pounds into English pounds by conversion ratio as listed.

 

~Brigand

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I don't understand the choice of two French frigates : la Belle Poule (1766) and la Renommée (1794). They are two 12-pounder frigates relatively similar no ?

 

Why didn't you choose one 12-pounder and one 18-pounder for example ?

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They've built the 1747 Renommee, actually. She was an extremely fast 9-pounder frigate.

 

That leaves our 18-pdr Leda class, 12-pd Belle Poule, the generic 'Frigate,' which could be either 18 or 12-pdr, and Surprise, which really should carry 9-pdrs instead.

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You are correct, and looking at the number I listed, I have no idea how I came up with it.

I've updated the list as follows:

lower deck   : 28 * 36-pounder guns  + 4 * 36-pounder stern chasers,

middle deck : 34 * 24-pounder guns,

upper deck  : 34 * 12-pounder guns,

fore castle   : 16 * 8-pounder guns  + 6 * 36-pounder carronades  + 2 * 8-pounder chasers

Broadside weight: 1,288 livre du roi (French pounds).

 

I wonder if I should show the values converted to English pounds; the difference in French pounds vs English pounds being 1 livre du roi = 1.079 lb. So a broadside weight of 1,288 livre du roi would translate in ~1390 lb.

 

Thoughts?

 

~Brigand

French poundage was also a touch higher than RN practice. Though not as much in this period as later.

Actual ball weights from French sources (kg, converted to avoirdupious pounds).

36 livre, 40.3lbs

30 livre (later than our period, but ~ 33.6lbs)

24 livre, 26.6lbs

18 livre, 20.1lbs

16 livre, 18lbs

12 livre, 13.4lbs

8 livre, 9lbs

Don't have values for 6, 4 or 3 livre, though they are sometimes referred to.

It is commonly noted that French ball averages near the nominal weight, while English is often deficient

So broadside weight for the above is ~ 1437lbs, plus 18lbs fwd and 161lbs aft.

Edited by Lieste

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They've built the 1747 Renommee, actually. She was an extremely fast 9-pounder frigate.

That leaves our 18-pdr Leda class, 12-pd Belle Poule, the generic 'Frigate,' which could be either 18 or 12-pdr, and Surprise, which really should carry 9-pdrs instead.

There are four frigates which are called the Renommée.

Frigate of 8-pdr = 1744

Frigate of 12-pdr = 1767

Frigate of 18-pdr = 1805

Frigate of 60-gun of 30-pdr = 1826

8-pdr for La Renommée of 1744. And she is taken in 1747 by Royal Navy.

Edited by Surcouf

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I don't know how the Royal Navy frigate built la Renommée after his capture in 1747.

Maybe the Royal Navy was armed with 9-pdr ???

I'm not sure.

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8-pdr for La Renommée of 1744. And she is taken in 1747 by Royal Navy.

 

I don't know how the Royal Navy frigate built la Renommée after his capture in 1747.

Maybe the Royal Navy was armed with 9-pdr ???

I'm not sure.

A fregate de 8, is armed with 8 livre guns, these fire a 9 lb avoirdupious ball.

When taken by the RN she may have kept her original armament, or been rearmed with 'equivalent' Admiralty pattern 9lb guns. She would in either case now be considered a 9lb frigate in English service.

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French poundage was also a touch higher than RN practice. Though not as much in this period as later.

(...)

 

Hmm, I'm not sure it is common to calculate broadside weight based on the actual weight of the shot, instead of the nominal weight of the shot?

livre    lb     ratio (Avoirdupois pounds converted to English pound)
36       40.3   1.119443753
24       26.6   1.108332649
18       20.1   1.116665977
16       18     1.124999306
12       13.4   1.116665977
 8        9     1.124999306
    avarage     1.118517828

That's all most confusing. My sources say that 1 Livre du roi equalled 1.079 English pounds. Which is ~ 0.040 lb difference with what your numbers give as an average.

 

I have a hard time finding the right number, do you have better information than the numbers as listed in the OP?

 

~Brigand

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The higher shot is a recurring theme, both in English writings and in the specification of French material.

Dimensions were given in mm and are equivalent to those for the weights given in the table.

My guess is that originally (1600s) the weights were 'correct' and windage fairly loose, but as guns were standardised and improved the French kept the same nominal bore, and made the shot higher to reduce windage, while RN practice was to keep the shot constant (often somewhat low in practice), and made new weapons with tighter bore (eg the carronades of reduced calibre). French windage was notably tighter than RN during the period in question, and again reduced in subsequent decades. Small increments in diameter give quite large increases in volume and mass. (roughly 2:3 to 1:2 ratio of windage to RN practice).

RN practice was bizarre, as instead of firing common shot and shell, they used common shot for carronades (with reduced windage) and guns, but different shell, with the carronade shell having an increased windage and smaller dimension.

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I don't know how the Royal Navy frigate built la Renommée after his capture in 1747.

Maybe the Royal Navy was armed with 9-pdr ???

I'm not sure.

Yeah, the British put 9-pound guns on her.

 

Although in-game it is possible to arm her with 12-pounders. Just like Surprise. Unfortunately.

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You probably should list the Ocean-class ship in the OP, btw. 

Edited by Arvenski

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You probably should list the Ocean-class ship in the OP, btw. 

It already is listed.. Just have a look at the grey coloured ships wich mean they are in development ;)

The actual first ship built of that class is the "Le commerce de marseille"

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Id rather like to see the historical cannon counts than just adding in all the chasers.

It smells a lot like potbs to me.

And maybe some guys expect to have all the 144 guns of the santi on the sides..

 

Historical:

138 on the side. 6 chasers is 144. Wich is not correct in my understanding

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I know that the devs were asking for info and opinions on 2nd Rates in this thread, so does anyone know if they picked one to add to the game, and which one it might be? 

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USS Essex (1799) added to the list.

 

 

Could you add date of disposal and fate? It would complete the list.

And great job on the list.

 

I could, but right now I don't have time to research the fate of each ship in the list.

 

Cheers,

Brigand

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