List of ships and other vessels in the game

[Surcouf]

In addition, razee vessels are not good frigates "in France". It is therefore not useful.

Speed frigates:

Sané type (1782/......):

On the wind = 6 to 9 kns

On the quartre = 11 to 13 kns

Downwind = 8 to 10,5 kns

Razed 74:

On the wind = 4 to 7 kns

Onthe quarter = max 10 kns

Downwind =7 to 8 kns

I do not have the values for the frigates transformed into corvette.

[Mirones]

its more of a usefull addition if you have new people without sol rank to giv them the caped 3rd's and use them as razee

[OTMatt]

its more of a usefull addition if you have new people without sol rank to giv them the caped 3rd's and use them as razee

Oh very good idea.

[admin]

Razed 74:

On the wind = 4 to 7 kns

Onthe quarter = max 10 kns

Downwind =7 to 8 kns

I do not have the values for the frigates transformed into corvette.

 

So the question is then

How slower ships survived those days and why? 

Why would the admiralty board built 11-12 knot frigates for the Royal Navy when there were 12.5 and 13 knots (reportedly) options.

[akd]

we get the option to razee ships 

Agammenom-Indefatigable 

and now 

Pavel-Kepler

nothing to be that mad about

 

Indefatigable was an actual ship with plans that was razeed from a sister ship of Agamemnon.

 

Kepler is made up fantasy ship that will be the most powerful frigate that never existed (42 pdr main battery).  Since there is nothing to base actual handling on, I expect her performance will also be made quite nice.

 

Just appears to me to be a huge departure from previous standards, and a bit of disappointment considering the huge catalog of real, unique ships (including really awesome Russian heavy frigates) that could be added to the game.

[akd]

So the question is then

How slower ships survived those days and why? 

Why would the admiralty board built 11-12 knot frigates for the Royal Navy when there were 12.5 and 13 knots (reportedly) options.

 

Exigencies of war. If it weren't wartime, old or obsolescent SoLs would just have been put in ordinary or broken up.

[Surcouf]

So the question is then

How slower ships survived those days and why? 

Why would the admiralty board built 11-12 knot frigates for the Royal Navy when there were 12.5 and 13 knots (reportedly) options.

Because a Fr. 74-gun ship razeed in frigate has a 36-pdr in the first battery and the 18-pdr in Fo'csle and Q'deck, while a standard frigate only the 18-pdr and 8- pdr in Fo'csle and Q'deck.

So they are slower but more powerful. It makes a big difference. This is a super frigate.

Note:

74 Sané type (1781/......):

On the wind = 7 à 8,5 kns

On the quarter = 10,5 à 12 kns

Downwind = 8 à 10 kns

[Mirones]

 

Kepler is made up fantasy ship that will be the most powerful frigate that never existed (42 pdr main battery).  Since there is nothing to base actual handling on, I expect her performance will also be made quite nice.

 

Just appears to me to be a huge departure from previous standards, and a bit of disappointment considering the huge catalog of real, unique ships (including really awesome Russian heavy frigates) that could be added to the game.

i cant remember the Pavel having 42lb medium and long on the gundeck 

the "Frigate" or Cherubin is a complet fantasy ship too just like the yacht.

and i cant remember any topics greating an massiv uproar about them.

 

Currently the only OP ship that is not acting like it should is the snow ontario wich recieved 2 Speedbuffs behind each other and when currently chained down to 54% handels like the one before the buffs.

So that tiny nutshell sits behind your Surprise closehauled with same speed shoting ball at your sails and you do the same amount of % down as she does to you but performance wise nothing happens to her. that is more gamebraking than an razee version of an actual existing Ship of the Line wich didnt get Razeed because there were no need to.

 

if the Kepler gets no extra topdeck guns besides the top gunports she will have an equal boardside weight than conni with far worse handlings and lower rate of fire wich forces her to zigzag wich is not possible for her.

 

i am more worried about these 24lb dedicated speed frigates that people throw into suggestions.

[OTMatt]

i am more worried about these 24lb dedicated speed frigates that people throw into suggestions.

 

I cringe at all the 19th century frigate and SOL suggestions.

[akd]

i cant remember the Pavel having 42lb medium and long on the gundeck 

the "Frigate" or Cherubin is a complet fantasy ship too just like the yacht.

and i cant remember any topics greating an massiv uproar about them.

 

Currently the only OP ship that is not acting like it should is the snow ontario wich recieved 2 Speedbuffs behind each other and when currently chained down to 54% handels like the one before the buffs.

So that tiny nutshell sits behind your Surprise closehauled with same speed shoting ball at your sails and you do the same amount of % down as she does to you but performance wise nothing happens to her. that is more gamebraking than an razee version of an actual existing Ship of the Line wich didnt get Razeed because there were no need to.

 

if the Kepler gets no extra topdeck guns besides the top gunports she will have an equal boardside weight than conni with far worse handlings and lower rate of fire wich forces her to zigzag wich is not possible for her.

 

i am more worried about these 24lb dedicated speed frigates that people throw into suggestions.

-Pavel has 42s as substitute for Russian  36 pdrs (39 English pounds)

 

-Cherubim and Yacht are from actual plans by a renowned shipmaker.  Liberties on Cherubim were only taken with cosmetics, afaik.

 

-I agree on Snow, but that is irrelevant.

 

-I agree on some of the 24pdr frigate suggestions, particularly those that mounted short, light Swedish 24 pdrs and should probably be treated as 18 pdr frigates in game terms.

[OTMatt]

-Pavel has 42s as substitute for Russian  36 pdrs (39 English pounds)

 

It says on front page a Russian pound is 0.903. Wouldnt that make it 32 pounders or maybe the info is incorrect?

[maturin]

So the question is then

 

Why would the admiralty board built 11-12 knot frigates for the Royal Navy when there were 12.5 and 13 knots (reportedly) options.

Because a razee was a cheap conversion of a relatively useless old SoL.

 

British razees were often more successful, in terms of speed. Some of the 1758 razee's made 13 kts and 11 kts closehauled. Also, Indy was not at all slow, IIRC.

 

When you razee a ship you totally change the center of gravity, making it a real challenge to find the right weight distribution and rig proportions.

 

 

How slower ships survived those days and why?

Speed was much more variable, depending on many factors:

• Wind Strength
• Sea State
• Condition of masts and sailcloth
• Amount of growth on the underwater hull
• Trim (affected by consuming stores in the hold)

And of course, a slow ship would only be caught and captured once in a long career. Not three times per night off Isla la Mona.

[Mighty_Alex]

I don't think so. Would be a shame if the most powerful frigate in game were pure fantasy, especially when there are Russian heavy frigates that could be made. I hope it is abandoned project with resources redirected to historical ships.

The only razeed russian ship of the line was 80-gun "Alexander Nevskii" (1826). It was made into frigate in 1832. (way out of timeline). A similar vessel did exist at the time:http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=21447  But it was a purpose built frigate, not a razee.  The pair Agamemnon-Indefatigable is totally legit though (Agamemnon being the same class as non-razeed Indefatigable) Pavel was never razeed. It is indeed a very strange choice. I would rather see HMS Majestic and its razeed variation: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Majestic_(1785)

It says on front page a Russian pound is 0.903. Wouldnt that make it 32 pounders or maybe the info is incorrect?

Incorrect. Russian pound is 409.51 grams. But russian artillery pound is heavier (491 grams). Almost the same as a french pound (489.5 grams).

[pietjenoob]

Btw the Indiaman is not the Amsterdam or anything, it is a Chapman Swedish (most probaly) Gustaff den III., 1803.

http://i.imgur.com/E5muEsT.jpgthe plans

the ingame ship http://prnt.sc/b78q6p

I had a chat with steelsandwhichover the ship and we came to the conclussion that it must be the Swedish Gustaff den III only slightly chanced

Edited May 23, 2016 by pietjenoob

[Mirones]

Btw the Indiaman is not the Amsterdam or anything it is a Chapman Swedish (most probaly) Gustaff den III.

I had a chat with steelsandwhichover the ship and we came to the conclussion that it must be the Swedish Gustaff den III

the indiaman in that list is planned as 42gun, it has nothing todo with the 28gun we just got

[pietjenoob]

Then i mist that part my excuses then

[BungeeLemming]

our Indiaman:

http://www.sjohistoriska.se/ImageVaultFiles/id_2237/cf_1111/51.JPG

thats the one your looking for

[joegatt57]

Thought it would be nice to gather the ever growing list of ships into a nice spreadsheet. If you spot any errors, please let me know (I intent on keeping this up-to-date).

 

Note:

Historic broadside weight listed in English pounds, converted from national units of weight:

Cheers,

Brigand

Please note that the Russian Naval Pound introduced by Peter I weighs 490 grams. The 409 gram weight was known as the Trade Pound.

[joegatt57]

OK.

Excuse me for my brazen introduction to Game-Labs forum, but I am a great fan of the Russian Sailing Fleet.

Cheers

 

Joe Gatt

[SteelSandwich]

No worries, feedback is always welcome!

 

Especially when it helps us improve our knowledge or the game. It is much appreciated.

[Malachi]

The danish pound is missing in the OP, 499.60 gramms, factor to lbs 1.1014

[Fluffy Fishy]

Unless I am mistaken Rattlesnake isn't a corvette its a sloop of war, I would also be suspect to the naming of Surprise as a heavy corvette too, as my understanding she is very much a frigate.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Fluffy Fishy

[BungeeLemming]

.. which is basically the same, just in other terms.

the brits named such three masted ships sloop of war and the commander of such a vessel would be a master and commander leutenant.

 

The french came up with the term corvette and mean exactly the same which the brits name sloop of war.

[Malachi]

A corvette has three masts, while a sloop of war can have two, though

[Talos]

Yes, corvette was the French term at the time, not applicable to either a US or British ship like the Rattlesnake/Cormorant. The term is broader than sloop originally in that it can extend up to post ship-sized ships. Sloops can cover two and three masts (brig and ship sloops), and later on also included the smallest 6th rate post ships. In the US, all the later brig sloops were actually snow-rigged with spencer masts carrying fore and aft sails. Corvette didn't really enter the lexicon of the US and UK until the 1820s/30s, where it starts showing up sporadically, usually as something smaller than a sloop. This is visible in Chapelle's draughts, where one of the designs leading up to the Boston-class sloops of the 1830s was a smaller ship referred to as a corvette.

 

Things were fluid in the time period anyway. An example is John Adams, built as a subscripion frigate, then cut down into an excellent sloop. She was later refitted with a quarterdeck (but no forecastle) as the US Navy's only "jackass frigate", then cut back down into a sloop again. Years later, when she was to be replaced with a Boston-class sloop, she was called a corvette as well. Similarly, the 28-gun post ship HMS Cyane was called a post ship, a sloop of war, and a 32-gun frigate (the latter usually by people trying to make the Constitution capture of her seem less one-sided). The sloop comment is especially made by people mixing her up with the earlier 22-gun Cyane like Chapelle did, he got the plans backwards. There was a proposal to cut Cyane down into a flush-decked sloop when she was captured by the US as well.