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Range damage mechanics question


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I have just installed the UI and AI Customization mod and see the tooltips are different.  I am particularly interested in understanding the range damage mechanics.

Take the 10 lb Parrot for example.

Range Damage Multipliers are:    100 = 29%;  Short = 10%;  Medium = 8%;  Long = 8%;  Max = 15%

Damage Range = 6.25 - 65

As I interpret these, 6.25 is the minimum damage that will be done and, since the minimum multiplier is 8%, the gun's base damage should be 78.13 (8% of 78.13 = 6.25).  However, using the same logic with the maximums, I get the gun's base damage as 224.14 (29% of 224.14 = 65).  Obviously, this can't be correct.  So, how do these values relate to each other?

The crux of my question revolves around trying to decide between a battery of 12 10 lb Parrots or 6 20 lb Parrots.  Since I can only afford one of them, how do I determine which will be more effective at the 10 lb's range limits?

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These are two separate parts in the damage calculation. Note the below is still just part of the full calculation so you won't see exact numbers when hitting a target.

Weapon base damage * (random value between accuracy low and accuracy high) * range damage multiplier

= (value between 6.25 and 65) * range damage multiplier = weapon damage.

You can find the full graphs here: https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/26142-hidden-mechanics-and-weapon-damage-degradation/

 

What you'll probably find is that the 20pdr is just better most of the time. While the 10pdrs maximum damage is very high, it's not consistent and it's only really effective at near maximum range. 10pdrs are useful for counterbattery or bludgeoning through fortifications(if you don't have anything better) but if you can get your hands on 20pdrs instead there is basically no reason to take the 10pdr. Other than early on, I only use the 10pdr in my CSA campaigns where supplies of 20pdrs are much more limited.

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Thanks for the quick response.  I really appreciate it.

So, as I understand your reply, there is no way to empirically determine whether 6 20 lb Parrots or 12 10 lb Parrots will do the most damage out to 1700 yards.  I have looked at the artillery data in the link you gave but must confess I don't understand it.  I realize the superiority of the 20 lb gun from my Union campaign.  My issue is that I am playing a Confederate campaign and have only 6 20 lb Parrots but 12 of the 10 lb Parrots.  My gut instinct is that 12 of the lesser gun will be better than 6 of the better gun but was looking for some empirical evidence to support or refute it.

Anyway, thanks again for the quick response.

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Ahh, the 12 vs 6 comparison is harder because that brings in the size degradation curves as well(another multiplier.) My recommendation would be to go with the 20pdrs due to scarcity. You'll collect dozens of 10pdrs from the Union over the course of the campaign, but 20pdrs are quite rare to capture and always have limited supply in the shop.

While the 12 10pdrs will probably outdamage the 6 20pdrs if played perfectly and with good luck on the damage rolls, I think in most cases the 6 20pdrs will outperform the 10pdrs purely due to their extra range and better performance across the entire range spectrum. For example, anytime a target is advancing towards you only the first set of shots from the 10pdr will perform well, all of the shots as the unit gets closer will perform considerably worse. 

Maybe a better way to put this is that if you need the short term benefit in a battle where the AI is largely static, the 12 10pdrs are the better choice. But over the course of the campaign, the 20pdrs will be a much better choice.

I can try to find some time to log some actual numbers when comparing those two options, but it's unlikely to happen today.

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Once again, thanks for the quick response.  I hadn't expected any so soon.

I understand your point about a static vs a fluid battlefield and will certainly take this into account.

Further to my attempt to understand the mechanics, is the Range Degradation Multiplier different from the Range Damage Multiplier from your formula above?  If not, then, as I interpret the tables in the link, the damage from  a 10 lb Parrot shot could be as low as .375 (Base Damage of 25 x Accuracy Minimum of 25 x Range Degradation Multiplier @ 1190 yards of .06).  Is this correct?  If it is I think I could make some calculations if I had an idea of the probability curve for the min/max accuracy value.

 

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Range degradation multiplier and range damage multiplier are the same thing. One is the technical name used in the game code, the other was an attempt to better convey what the value represents. In the tooltips I just take 5 points on the curve for artillery (100 range, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, max) to give the player an idea what it looks like since I can't reasonably display the entire thing and asking players to go look at a spreadsheet every time isn't great either.

You are correct on the lowest possible damage for the 10pdr parrot as far as just the weapon parameters are concerned. I can't really provide any precise information on how likely the low vs high roll is. A custom random function is used and various other factors like altitude, firearms,  accuracy perks, and type of shot all factor into the final range of values to be randomly selected from.

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Thanks again for the quick response.

I completely understand your decision regarding the tooltips.  And, I intentionally ignored the other factors you mentioned so as to not muddy the waters any more than necessary to get a grasp of the topic. 

One last question.  Does the game really keep track of ranges at 5 yard intervals?

Edit:

I would appreciate your opinion on the usefulness of this analysis.

Capture.JPG.5dad2a94bdcdce82cdf87699fdaffa46.JPG

I find it interesting that the max accuracy of the 10 lb Parrot is 6.67 times that the 20 lb Parrot.

Edited by Sir Galahadn't
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2 hours ago, Sir Galahadn't said:

One last question.  Does the game really keep track of ranges at 5 yard intervals?

The game is more precise, the data was just cluttered enough already that I didn't want to log things down to every single yard.

The numbers in your chart look correct to me. Shows the 10pdr with very spiky damage with a low floor and the 20pdr with a lower spike, but more consistent damage.

The Tredegar, 10pdr parrot and 10pdr ordinance are weird outliers in terms of their accuracy high values. All three of them have an exceptionally high number compared to any other weapon in the game. While I can only speculate on the dev's thought process here it seems like they were given comparatively poor range damage multiplier curves to keep their damage from getting out of hand. No idea if the curve was to balance out the accuracy high or the other way around though.

Due to their very high potential spike damage all 3 of these cannon can be quite useful. The 10pdr parrot is by far the weakest, and really only useful if firing at targets at or beyond the edge of their firing arc. The Ordinance by contrast is really only effective at short to medium ranges as its range damage multiplier falls off to effectively 0 at max range. It can be extremely effective at those ranges though, only the 24pdr, James, and 20pdr have any chance of keeping up. The tredegar is a mixture of both, effective at short and long ranges but not spectacular at either. But as the CSA if you want to play artillery heavy your options are limited so they are very well worth using.

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In thinking about this a little more, since there is an accuracy adjustment factor, assuming it would be safe to say that the Average Damage value could be used as a reasonable estimate of the damage for shots taken at any given range, the 10 lb Parrot doesn't look quite as bad and, in fact, beats the 20 lb Parrot in ranges from 1530 to 1700 yards.  Obviously, it's worthless beyond 1700 yards.  If you don't think this is a reasonable assumption, please explain why.

Capture.JPG.32cd8a217c4b039defb678c8caec8c3d.JPG

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I think it depends how much risk you're willing to take on. Is the chance of dealing lower damage worth the chance of dealing higher? Or do you favor consistency? While I'm normally on the consistency side, I do think the above helps show the potential that the 10pdr parrot does have when used correctly. Many players dismiss them as completely worthless and while they certainly have many flaws they absolutely have their uses.

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I have no objections.  Would you like the file from which these screenshots were taken?  The data is arranged so that you can select and compare whichever guns you wish to via a similar chart.  If yes, do you want only the sheet for these charts or the whole file (which has gun vs gun comparisons)?

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