Archaos Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 10:18 AM, admin said: You will also be able to attack 1 nearest enemy port from 3 largest nation even if it is further away from 2 nearest enemy ports This will allow you to attack more distant ports and is especially valuable for small landlocked nations who might be stuck and have to resort to diplomacy and port trading. Ability to attack 1 nearest port from top nations (even if it is far away) will greatly increase options for both large and small nations. Although I can see the merit in such a system, in practice in the current game this will just mean GB getting hit by everyone as usual. maybe if it was only the top nation it would be better to put more pressure on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm3 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, admin said: We totally understand that. But thats the only way to get the proof that the person placing the flag is not an alt and REALLY worked and risked something in a group. We do not believe in magical ethical unicorns and prefer pragmatic working solutions. Attacking and sinking hard non-negotiating NPCs in risky zones is the only way to 100% guarantee effort (and not using alts) Probably in that case you should remove or at least expand Flags expire time? 7 days seem too small period, especially combined with 10% drop rate and small numbers of players in some nations - they simply have to do HDF and stock flags for future actions, but with expire time it will be pure grind, just to try some RVR. And Russian hegemony with their numbers and Key West HDF farming place will be more firm - there must be some method for other ations to deal with it without PB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, Archaos said: Although I can see the merit in such a system, in practice in the current game this will just mean GB getting hit by everyone as usual. maybe if it was only the top nation it would be better to put more pressure on them. GB will be fine - it has the mightiest fleet in the world! Oh, and... 100 committed players ready to screen/ fill PBs. I like very much increasing numbers of ports for top nations we can attack, but I think it should not be for the top three nations but this malus should be for every nation that has more than x (decided amount of ports) + the 1st nation, that should get it anyways. Also, a couple things I have to say to our beloved devs: adding 2 first rates to the HDF is pointless. Why the hell would you do it? Making it more annoying and also to increase amount of people needed to do it? Also: make the drop of a flag GRANTED from every Privateer fleet, please. There is a considerable chance that a fleet does not drop any flags: with 13 ships (considering now with 2 more 1st rates...) chance is 0.9^13= 0, 254, so more than 25% chance of not getting any flags from a 40/50 minutes fight. With 11 ships in the fleet (please, again, revert this and remove the 2 first rates) chance is 0.9^11 = 31%. Last thing. Cooldown for flags is a nice thing to have in order to avoid huge amount of flags stored... BUT: it should be at least 14/15 days... if not three weeks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 25, 2020 Author Share Posted June 25, 2020 21 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said: Probably in that case you should remove or at least expand Flags expire time? 7 days seem too small period, especially combined with 10% drop rate and small numbers of players in some nations - they simply have to do HDF and stock flags for future actions, but with expire time it will be pure grind, just to try some RVR. With 13 ships in a fleet and 10% drop rate on average there will be one flag from fleet. Worst case scenario is 2 fleets probably. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despe Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 46 minutes ago, admin said: We totally understand that. But thats the only way to get the proof that the person placing the flag is not an alt and REALLY worked and risked something in a group. We do not believe in magical ethical unicorns and prefer pragmatic working solutions. Attacking and sinking hard non-negotiating NPCs in risky zones is the only way to 100% guarantee effort (and not using alts) im totally agree with admin on this. Even though I also don't like farming HDF to get flags, this system is much more balanced and much less exploitable that old host missions. 37 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said: 7 days seem too small period, i would remove all flags after each server reset KILL ME 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) Some interesting maths again... we'll have 6,5 % chance of not getting any flags from two HDF in a row (0.9^26). Dear admin, you can't say worst case scenario is that you have to do two fleets... 25% is not so small chance of having to kill the second fleet, 6,5% is not so small chance of having to kill the third fleet to get some flags, 1,5 % of having to kill the fourth.... how 'bout you implement a ship that in every fleet has 100% chance of getting it, while having 10% in the remaining 10/12 ships? Otherwise worst case scenario is not 2 fleets, it is infinite amount of fleets, in an incredibly unlucky day Edited June 25, 2020 by Comrade FrosT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm3 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, admin said: With 13 ships in a fleet and 10% drop rate on average there will be one flag from fleet. Worst case scenario is 2 fleets probably. I once got not one Permits from opening 9 chests (and drop rate was much higher than 10%). When small nation manages to gather enough people (with limited playtime) to farm HDF and after preparing, sailing (probably evading enemy) and hard fought battle with HDG they won't get any Flags, having to sail back and repeat (with possibility of the same result) - that can and will be quite frustrating, leading to more negative against developers. P.S. I agree with idea (though alts still can be used during flag placement) but numbers should be tweaked. Edited June 25, 2020 by Malcolm3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaBrig Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 20 hours ago, Serk said: You don't sink whole HDF in fir-fir speedboat ships designed to hunt newbs flash news, fir fir speedboats are old meta, new is seasoned teak white oak 3rd and 2nd rates that goes 14-15kn and could easily fight in a port battle 19 hours ago, admin said: We do not believe in magical ethical unicorns and prefer pragmatic working solutions. but having your carpenters gluing together the same masts on the ship for the 4th time, going full sails without stabilizing masts when one falls, and saving an almost submerged ship is not in the same alley as "magical ethical unicorns"? just asking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm3 Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 4 hours ago, admin said: we are not fully settled on the transport and price might go higher as in the process of making the transport to battle we have changed the tag mechanic That can be partial solution for removing previous suicide screening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseBatman Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, admin said: Overall We are very happy about the flag and how it works after we tested it. Flag implementation fixes all Alt/hostility exploits that were present previously in hostility missions or flags or a flag, and take some risk and effort to acquire We are very pragmatic. We are not striving to be perfect, we can just be better than before. Just like the exit timer or future karma system, flag is to solve exploits - but surprisingly it also makes RvR better than before. Time to respond Time to respond is not different from hostility missions, but is a somewhat better due to warnings and sudden death (golden goal). You have more time to react than before and can end it in one correct shot. As before organized attack by multiple clans will require multiple clans to defend, and other nations can interfere in the process (sinking flag carriers or helping them or placing their own flag to stop the attack). But its somewhat easier as you have clear targets (flag carriers) to stop the hostility. It will be beneficial for clans to redraw the map around important ports and capture enemy ports that are too close to your national ports (allowing short fast flag placement without any travel) The timer (warm up timer before flag starts ticking) and time to set up hostility can be adjusted in the future. Weight Weight will remain and we allow light ships to be used for flag carry. light ships give you speed but can be one shotted once cornered due to 2500m circle. Tactics will emerge over time and anyone can predict that nations will most likely settle on super heavy fleets as circle of death will allow you to corner any fast ship if you have 3 vessels. + Nations will recruit other clans for diversions and placing diversion flags. Especially about the weight you fail to foresee what will almost certainly happen. There won’t be heavy fleet battles on the 2500m circle. Smart nations will get a flag carrier that will kite the battle, go upwind in super fast reprinting requin or the likes. And have a fleet of other super fast ships to chain and kill off any chase ships jumping in. Easy! Free port battle set. Wake up please, need to stop this circus before it starts, you’re idea is massively flawed, and needs to be rectified asap! This would require players to have multiple defence fleet types at key ports. Bearing in mind we only have 30 dock slots. So this will be logistically impossible. Also time to increase number of outposts & dock slots. Long over due. We get it that you want people to buy alts irrelevant of the hypocrisy of what you’re T&Cs say. It’s time to be black and white though. You need to significantly increase the weight of the flag and the cargo capacity. It is logical to think that if you where to invade a port, you would be having to do it with overwhelming odds. A heavy sol fleet. Not a fleet of super fast reqs/snows for god sake. Not changing the weight is a huge mistake. Edited June 25, 2020 by ChineseBatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Ambassador Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 4:18 AM, admin said: This will allow you to attack more distant ports and is especially valuable for small landlocked nations who might be stuck and have to resort to diplomacy and port trading. Ability to attack 1 nearest port from top nations (even if it is far away) will greatly increase options for both large and small nations. I think this is a great idea, some nations are unable to do RvR because they're locked by their political agreements, this will give them a chance to consider starting new wars in new fronts. Sounds promising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Garneray Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 So no PB scheduled yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonH Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 16 hours ago, ChineseBatman said: Especially about the weight you fail to foresee what will almost certainly happen. There won’t be heavy fleet battles on the 2500m circle. Smart nations will get a flag carrier that will kite the battle, go upwind in super fast reprinting requin or the likes. And have a fleet of other super fast ships to chain and kill off any chase ships jumping in. Easy! Free port battle set. Wake up please, need to stop this circus before it starts, you’re idea is massively flawed, and needs to be rectified asap! This would require players to have multiple defence fleet types at key ports. Bearing in mind we only have 30 dock slots. So this will be logistically impossible. Also time to increase number of outposts & dock slots. Long over due. We get it that you want people to buy alts irrelevant of the hypocrisy of what you’re T&Cs say. It’s time to be black and white though. You need to significantly increase the weight of the flag and the cargo capacity. It is logical to think that if you where to invade a port, you would be having to do it with overwhelming odds. A heavy sol fleet. Not a fleet of super fast reqs/snows for god sake. Not changing the weight is a huge mistake. If they do that, you need to push the flag carrier away from the mid of the battle, push him to the edges of the circle, once the flag is there you can just let the ppl outside know the position of the flag carrier, they can join in next to him, chain him, board him, oneshot him. There you go no drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseBatman Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 20 hours ago, DonH said: If they do that, you need to push the flag carrier away from the mid of the battle, push him to the edges of the circle, once the flag is there you can just let the ppl outside know the position of the flag carrier, they can join in next to him, chain him, board him, oneshot him. There you go no drama. So how are you supposed to make a upwind reprinting req go to the edge where you’d like them to go, while you are being chained, slaughtered by a load of other reqs/snows. And then to catch said flag bearer and kill him within 30 mins 😂 stupidity at its utmost. I’m sorry this flag mechanic is simply an easy port battle, it is undefendable. It is more defendable if attackers where to bring a heavy SOL fleet. But reqs and snows fleet lol. Gets through any screeners easily, get into flag conquest easily, gets PB timer easily. It’s a joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 (edited) You can enter flag battle where the Requin is going. You will spawn some distance away, 500m maybe ? Send in one ship, report positions, start entering battle one at a time to bracket the xebec. Ofc it relies on port owner to take action... *rolls eyes* C'mon, we had positional battles in the OW before and we all know how it was easy to trap an enemy. Edited June 27, 2020 by Hethwill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonH Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 There should be more options open for buiding attacking flag fleets than just stronk slow ships... I am happy as it is now, cause there is more diversity. Positional reinforcements and communication is and should be key for successfully defending your ports from attackers. Taking small ships away of flag fleets by making the flag utterly cumbersome will only make for repetitive slug fests for big ships, if that is your playstayle fine but dont try and force it on everybody. o7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChineseBatman Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 (edited) On 6/27/2020 at 11:50 AM, DonH said: There should be more options open for buiding attacking flag fleets than just stronk slow ships... I am happy as it is now, cause there is more diversity. Positional reinforcements and communication is and should be key for successfully defending your ports from attackers. Taking small ships away of flag fleets by making the flag utterly cumbersome will only make for repetitive slug fests for big ships, if that is your playstayle fine but dont try and force it on everybody. o7 You completely miss the point. Attacking a port to plant flag is simply an easy win for the attacker. As I explained above that will 100% happen. There is no semblance of balance if a fleet of tiny scrotes in upwind reprinting reqs can kite a SOL fleet and run easily, and just kill off any scouting small ships that jump in to gain positioning on flag bearer. The attackers have full control of the engagement from start to finish for free due to this broken flag mechanic. The weight and cargo hold capacity OBVIOUSLY needs changing to address this. This goes without saying. You would need to have a super speed reprinting fleet to defend said battle, and as I said before you have 30 minutes to try and make it through the countless reqs/ snows to even make it near the flag bearer. And then the other obvious added issue of needing multiple fleet comps at key ports to counter said attacker fleet compositions. We do not have the outpost or ship port slot numbers to logistically make this possible. Use some common sense lol Edited June 29, 2020 by ChineseBatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 28, 2020 Share Posted June 28, 2020 Defender can send in sloops and schooners as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Archer Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 To add more diversity to port battles, the flag holding ship should define the maximum class or br of ships in the port battle. It will be a strategic decision then with a high impact. No 1st rates in port battle, when the flag was not carried by a first rate... at least for the attacker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixolai Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Riot stick said: so, when do we start fighting? But sir Riot we cant start portbattles when the flags does not drop to us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonH Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/28/2020 at 2:31 PM, ChineseBatman said: You completely miss the point. Attacking a port to plant flag is simply an easy win for the attacker. As I explained above that will 100% happen. There is no semblance of balance if a fleet of tiny scrotes in upwind reprinting reqs can kite a SOL fleet and run easily, and just kill off any scouting small ships that jump in to gain positioning on flag bearer. The attackers have full control of the engagement from start to finish for free due to this broken flag mechanic. The weight and cargo hold capacity OBVIOUSLY needs changing to address this. This goes without saying. You would need to have a super speed reprinting fleet to defend said battle, and as I said before you have 30 minutes to try and make it through the countless reqs/ snows to even make it near the flag bearer. And then the other obvious added issue of needing multiple fleet comps at key ports to counter said attacker fleet compositions. We do not have the outpost or ship port slot numbers to logistically make this possible. Use some common sense lol Sorry I have not missed anything, do not put more limits to it, and specially, please do not say something is even obvious, something goes without sayings, or common sense, because all this rethoric is YOUR opinion, and only yours, you are talking about that you possess a 100% of being correct at your assumption, that is very cocky from your part sorry. Stop saying you and only you possess the truth, there are more opinions, we have not even seen that many PBs since it is back, we need more data, and experience. Oh and last, a few people have already told you that the solution to your problem is already being accounted in the system that is in place, it works, listen, try it, come back with a formed opinion. o7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquillas Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Flag conquest (HDF hunting) is quite boring and time consuming (I mean PVP time consuming) if you add the time to motivate a team, wait for all joining the same starting port, fixing concerns about players short of repairs, going to an enemy capital, waiting or finding a HDF, making the battle, redo because you got no flag the first time, and back to port. Three hours or more. Lucky you if your fleet, damaged and out of repairs, is not intercepted back by enemy players who will take your rewards. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 (edited) Clans from several nations did it already. Motivation definitely plays a big part. Is kind of a clan event thing. Small ones go with a fleet. Bigger ones go with several and increase chances of drops. Majority had drops on first fleets. There's danger, that's true, but is very relative. Some nations though are better poised than others to go to HDF areas, but that's the conquest game I guess. Better take some good spots a.s.a.p. Edited June 30, 2020 by Hethwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 On 6/25/2020 at 2:03 PM, admin said: We totally understand that. But thats the only way to get the proof that the person placing the flag is not an alt and REALLY worked and risked something in a group. We do not believe in magical ethical unicorns and prefer pragmatic working solutions. Attacking and sinking hard non-negotiating NPCs in risky zones is the only way to 100% guarantee effort (and not using alts) Unfortunately your game-mechanics to this day never really enforced ethical behaviour. That´s why you lost faith in ethics and call the changes now "pragmatic working solutions". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedish Berserker Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said: Unfortunately your game-mechanics to this day never really enforced ethical behaviour. That´s why you lost faith in ethics and call the changes now "pragmatic working solutions". Ahh Amdin is right the patch was a big success don't you see all the Portbattles that are going on............ All the real RVR players won't do hours and hours of PVE to do RVR lol.... That patch might be the final nail in the coffin of this once great game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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