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Shipbuilding Timbers Overhaul


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On 6/20/2020 at 5:04 PM, skantb said:

Why some national capitals got rare woods spawning at market (KPR , Willemstad) and others don't ?

Which capitals actually do?

Edited by mikawa
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Fastest woods shouldnt be able to win fights. When you can win equal fights and still be able to outrun anybody even slightly battleready, than it is wrong. If you want WARship, you should be risking by not having as much speed. Just my two cents there.

New wood patch turned out good in my opinion. You are forced to pick and there is many combos which to pick from now.

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5 hours ago, Mannow said:

I dont intend to be disrespectful, but frankly, its silly to say PVP players should be fine with losing their best ships when our builds actually matter. 

Players do not all share the same skill. Also not on PvE server. So it's also silly to claim woods don't matter on PvE. And what if I chose to fight 2, 3, x NPC? What if I chose to fight elite (any number again)? What if I chose to fight HomeDefenseFleet? Many options, many reasons to use quality wood of your preference. And this preference got now new choices, which I welcomed.

PvP builds matter.

PvE builds matter.

We are all the same.

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7 hours ago, Mannow said:

It actually doesnt really concern PVE. It is FAR easier to play on PVE than it is in PVP, because AI react predictably and players dont. A 3 thickness nerf to a ship in PVE doesnt really matter, because its easy to beat any AI ship you can name in almost any ship you can bring. (Ill beat any 1st rate you care to name in any 5th rate you care to name, no problem at all). On PVP, where winning sometimes does ride on the quality of your ship, drastically changing some woods is a massive, felt impact that wouldnt be so on the PVE server. Theres absolutely no point in sailing a teak white boat anymore when you can create better results with Locust teak, meaning the VAST majority of quality PVP boats felt this power creep, and felt it hard. 

I dont intend to be disrespectful, but frankly, its silly to say PVP players should be fine with losing their best ships when our builds actually matter. 

on PVE you choose the challenge, on PVP the challenge choses you. ship build always matters.

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7 hours ago, Mannow said:

I just had a thought pertaining to the Fir nerf. 

On several occasions, developers have stated they wish to encourage fighting, rather than running, but the fir nerf seems to discourage battle. Before the patch, I could just about, with clever angling and some luck, take on a ship of the same class or above and reasonably hope to win. Now, I feel like I must either attack ships below my rate or flee. I can beat a rattvisan in my speedoutable, for example, just by sitting broadside to broadside, regardless of reps or builds, because my guns are much heavier and the lightest redu still has more HP than the heaviest rattvisan, meaning that just by shooting it in the simplest manner, I have an easy win. By being faster, I can force any 4th rate to go broad to broad, or else simply board and take it with little risk, which I cannot do to similarly rated ships. I dont want to be a bully, and I like challenging fights, but it seems like with the latest patch, I have no choice in the matter.

In short, this patch encourages me to take fights i am almost certain of winning, and discourages me from taking relatively even fights I am almost certain to lose. Is this the direction the game should be moving in? 

try different ship builds mate. two determined frigate captains with a proper build will either sink your speedoutable or make you run away frustrated. the fir-nerf - above all in mast thickness - is one of the best changes in game.

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7 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Many players do not use fir for that reason, because they want to fight.

hint...hint...

He just said the pre-patch he would be able to take fights even against heavier ships on a Fir Fir ship, knowing the capabilities of his ship ect ect. After the patch, with Fir having been rendered effectively useless so far, all he can do is run. (And hope he doesnt get demasted from 500m lol)

 

 

7 hours ago, Trawn said:

Fastest woods shouldnt be able to win fights. When you can win equal fights and still be able to outrun anybody even slightly battleready, than it is wrong. If you want WARship, you should be risking by not having as much speed. Just my two cents there.

New wood patch turned out good in my opinion. You are forced to pick and there is many combos which to pick from now.


First of all no fight is equal. It was always like that, If you have a ship made from Fir and the other guy has a ship made of Teak, he will have an easier time tanking/bouncing shots. Provided that you are both in the same ship, you (being made out of Fir) would be able to attack, disengage, re attack again and again until and in the end sink your enemy (being made of Teak). It would take a while, you would use a lot of repairs but in the end you could/would have sunk him. 

Why was this wrong ? Just because some people were unable to counter this tactic they should punish those that practice it ? 

I guess speedy people are the problem and not the people that repair 70% of their hitpoints with a press of a button. No that is completely fine, balanced and should be encouraged!


@admin Can you please explain to me why hardwoods like live oak, being a lot harder to repair as you said, get a buff in repair amount and softwoods like fir that are very easy to repair get a nerf in repair amount ?
Am i getting something wrong ?
image.thumb.png.552e9b2c8803f6a8f19cefc14046ac7c.png
 

Edited by Henry Long Castle
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5 hours ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

try different ship builds mate. two determined frigate captains with a proper build will either sink your speedoutable or make you run away frustrated. the fir-nerf - above all in mast thickness - is one of the best changes in game.

You probably only say that because you haven't found yourself in the receiving end of a redoutable's broadside in a fir fir ship yet.

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10 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

You probably only say that because you haven't found yourself in the receiving end of a redoutable's broadside in a fir fir ship yet.

i have a simple policy. dont fight DLC in anything. I see DLC i just leave.

 

they can sit there and wait. i will not fight your dlc. waste of my time. bring real ship that has consequence. its all about respect. respect my time. 

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15 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

i have a simple policy. dont fight DLC in anything. I see DLC i just leave.

 

they can sit there and wait. i will not fight your dlc. waste of my time. bring real ship that has consequence. its all about respect. respect my time. 

Redoutable being mostly placed as an example there but yea I avoid, or would avoid dlc ships if i was still going for pvp instead of sitting in the forum all day XD

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18 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

Redoutable being mostly placed as an example there but yea I avoid, or would avoid dlc ships if i was still going for pvp instead of sitting in the forum all day XD

ive tried. usually they are full of trash upgrades and built of stupid woods. its not fun! so i stopped playing vs them. except herc and pandora. those get a pass as they are normal 

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15 hours ago, Mannow said:

Naw, just gotta demast one, ez work with 36s, then proceed to the sinkening. I killed 2 trincs and an essex a week ago by insta demasting one, 3 shotting the essex when it couldnt escape from me, pop rep, finish demasted trinc, kill the other one, cash money. These were good teak teak boats i was fighting too, with decent mods, it was player skill that failed them. They didnt chain me and they kept trying to sternrake.

I'm sure they dont. Best way to catch those players and make them fight was to be in fir fir as well, but since the ONLY reason to make a fir boat now is to hunt traders/ ezkill something way smaller than you, players that still use fir will get caught less than ever before. Before, I could catch these people and ALSO do a bit of a brawl if i was supported by my friends, meaning I had incentive to try to fight, whereas now, I HAVE to run or lose half my side in 1 broadside.

Youre 100% right, woods shouldn't determine victory. Player skill should, which is my whole argument. Im not the best player, but im good enough to confidently angle and take on bigger ships with 72 side thickness. I wouldnt beat very good players, or even ones at my skill level, but I could definitely punish people that make tons of mistakes and dont know manual sailing very well. 

Why should i be forced to lose speed to have a chance in a battle? Fir was already by far the weakest wood choice, and I could just about manage it. Now its useless and wouldnt bounce a 4 pounder. 

Additionally, there isnt going to be a brand new era in naval where people make wacky new ships. Best compromise now between armor and speed is Locust teak by a mile, and it took me about 10 minutes to figure that out. All praise Locust Teak Meta.

Thats the point. Fir fir (lets say Redoutable) used to be able to catch any lower ship which decided to pick anything other then fir fir and melt it while also outrun anything similar sized or bigger made out of anything else then fir fir. So "fair fight" was only between two fir fir Reds. I think forcing people to pick speed with vulnerability or durability without speed is a good idea. I wonder why even people opted for fir fir ships instead of teak/wo or teak/teak and then complain about low durability of their fir. Fir is the softest wood of all, why it should be tanky?

Also locust is receiving nerf soon, so it will fall in line of reasonable choices, not being the ultimate one.

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2 hours ago, Jan van Santen said:

What I hope for ? That lo(s)/wo(s), tk(s)/wo(s)...etc...will fall back in line of reasonable choices, too !

They are in line. It is just that their strongpoints are the attributes players value the most. Also as part of (previously) rare woods (means that their forest costs more points to builds and they dont drop from ports), they should be stronger then the common ones (sabicu, mahogany etc.) as there would be no reason for them to be more expensive otherwise. 

To sum it up, if you want teak/live oak/white oak to be as good/bad as mahogany/bermuda etc., then they would have to cost the same on all levels of availibility

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Loving the changes so far... the best is how the repair time and amount has been implemented, also crew dmg now makes sense, not like before.

There is only one thing imho is that the highest thickness wood (locust S) should not give a huge HP pool and moderated speed bonus also, it is a bit broken, bring down the sides HP or the internal Structure HP, to not render the old wood combos obsolete.

my 2 dubs

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2 hours ago, Trawn said:

.To sum it up, if you want teak/live oak/white oak to be as good/bad as mahogany/bermuda etc., then they would have to cost the same on all levels of availibility

True.

My summary  (what should have been in a woods/crafting update):

No devaluation of players assets, more variety (Endy with 101 sides, LO with 106...), more choices, more individual builds, less grind, less rng

What was in the update (so far)

A huge devaluation of players assets (ships, buildings, stored materials), gimmicky builds instead of variety (118 thicknes on LO...) , choices ? yes, but the wrong ones, insane grind , same rng.

 

As long as we don't know what comes out in the end, crafting is kinda frozen...and player numbers decreasing, since nobody actually knows what to play for

We can only hope that the forthcoming fixes correct these flaws...which still leaves the question: why  the initial testing on life server ??

 

Edited by Jan van Santen
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On 6/11/2020 at 2:01 PM, admin said:

Hello Captains

Nothing can be more important to the naval architect than a thorough knowledge of the properties of the materials with which he has to deal with. 
He can use this knowledge to his greatest advantage and thus produce a well proportioned ship of great speed or strength.

 

Be glad to know when the intrinsic nature of wood is finalised for shipbuilding.  Please a heads up on the OP from the Devs when wood attributes become stabilised.

Edited by Atreides
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