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Shipbuilding Timbers Overhaul


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Hello Captains Nothing can be more important to the naval architect than a thorough knowledge of the properties of the materials with which he has to deal with.  He can use this knowledge to hi

Couple of questions.  1. Is it correct that the only way to get hp bonus now for ships is through planking? 2. As I also understand it, the repair amount is based on the Frame, correct? So s

I'm saving my formal response until Redman runs the numbers too.    But I think it's worth considering that the existing RELATIONSHIPS between woods ought to be preserved.    People built ships

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How will the change in wood properties affect relative strength among nations?  If WO & LO for example are reduced in sturdiness does that change the equation and relative strength of the Russian Empire because of their dominance of ports and natural resources?  Distribution of these woods needs to be studied.

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Reduce the crafting grind, some sink hours upon hours to get a leg up on the competition by doing the crafting grind. Make it simple and easy to participate in. The tedium of this is one of the worst parts in the game and the reason for all these alt accounts.

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3 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

 others get their satisfaction from fighting with handicapped equipment, or simply not-so-perfect.

The average gamer doesnt have the choice in real life, but why should he drive a Golf in a game where he can have a Porsche ?

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Teak WO was meta imo because it was the best compromise between speed and armour. Why would a new system change that? It will always be speed and armour that beats the rest because in reality it was what mattered most to. Once players find the perfect build it will be the meta. 

That being said I have always liked the damage overhauls that add more realism but imo there are way to many multipliers in perma mods and port bonuses to balance accordingly. IMO if you want to do this right you should remove all modifiers in game that affect the ships planking and HP. Woods affecting ships is good but it should only be the woods. Nothing more. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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I hope to understand all that changes for the next user guide update. But I have more and more doubts for this. RVR, crafting, battle instances... 😮

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19 hours ago, Louis Garneray said:

I don't even know what will be the availability of the new wood but even if it's rare I know that the best pvp players will have it.

If nothing changes, it will be so rare that you need ages until you have gathered enough to build a ship larger than a 6th rate. No real competition for beloved seasoned woods.

But I hope the spawning will be a bit more frequent in the future.

In any case, the idea behind new woods was to give crafting a new justification opposite all that DLC redeeming. Same people who mourned over ship crafting being "useless" may call me 'brown-nosed' on global chat, but that is great and is what our (I still use our and not mine) business needed. Now devs just take the opportunity of that novelty in ship crafting business for a major overhaul of all woods.

Very unsurprising, the usual complaining started, as it always starts with things being new, like there was a wave of complaining about port boni introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!"), about seasoned woods introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!") or when this or that DLC ship came ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!")...

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17 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

So I have to salute you for being special, eccentric or doing a good joke (pick something)! :D

This is not a joke. Just try this meta and tell us your feedback.

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1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Very unsurprising, the usual complaining started, as it always starts with things being new, like there was a wave of complaining about port boni introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!"), about seasoned woods introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!") or when this or that DLC ship came ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!")...

Did you look at the chart I posted at all?

Port bonuses were in the game at release so no ships were made obsolete. Seasoned wood did not make ships obsolete, they made stats better than non seasoned but are still very much viable. DLC ships made no ships obsolete, as in most cases they are worst than crafted ships with random port bonuses, but the DLC spam in PvP gets old quick. 

The issue here for most of us was the nerf to the current woods and not that these new woods would be better in some cases as we knew they would be. My biggest issue was the hp nerf to White Oak as almost every ship used in RVR has WO planking for the hp buff. And then to come out and say WO gives 0 hp is a drastic change and really does make ships obsolete. 

image.png.213258a6c9a23390c67dd223fa4bd855.png

Perfect example is WO S/ WO S build. The only reason people build that for Port Battles is for the hp buff and repair amount. I mean just look at those stats compared to a base L'Ocean. A lose of 6300 side hp is 26% reduction in hp total with only 3 additional thickness. You've decided to build an entire fleet of seasoned PB ships out of WO/WO wanting to trade thickness for hp which is a viable strategy. Your enemy has built a seasoned fleet out of LO/WO which is again a viable strategy trading speed and less hp for more thickness. Now WO (S) hp value has been reduced to 0 which means the nerf to your WO S/ WO S fleet is huge compared to the nerf to your enemy's fleet of LO S / WO S. 

Most people save their seasoned PB ships for the defense of key ports for the protection of their crafting port from other players. You are now at a distinct disadvantage as your entire fleet of WO ships are now substantially worst compared to LO / WO ships when before they were not, increasing the chance of you losing your crafting port. 

I have no problem to a slight nerf due to the rework of wood characteristics as we are getting additional positives/negatives that before were not in game.

But removing the hp bonus from a wood in which the only reason someone would build a ship from that combo was due to the hp bonus, by definition makes that ship obsolete.

Edited by Redman29
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1 hour ago, Redman29 said:

Port bonuses were in the game at release so no ships were made obsolete.

Port boni arrived much later on PvE peace server than on your PvP.

Also I wasn't citing what I ever said, but what I consistently read others writing with each change. Here on forum and on chat. So you should direct your reply to them who deplored their 'meta losses' and not to me.

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5 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Very unsurprising, the usual complaining started, as it always starts with things being new, like there was a wave of complaining about port boni introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!"), about seasoned woods introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!") or when this or that DLC ship came ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!")...

you're playing in PVE... this discussion has certainly more to do with PVP server... I don't understand why you still comment on it.

Fighting AI fleet can be challenging but the wood change won't make bid difference on your server.

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5 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Port boni arrived much later on PvE peace server than on your PvP.

Also I wasn't citing what I ever said, but what I consistently read others writing with each change. Here on forum and on chat. So you should direct your reply to them who deplored their 'meta losses' and not to me.

I understand that you were replying to others but ship quality is not important in pve. It is to a certain extent but in a competitive environment a 2% difference in stats can have a significant impact especially with multiple repairs. It's why the repair "meta" has made the game very inconsistent. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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6 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

So I have to salute you for being special, eccentric or doing a good joke (pick something)! :D

ah, people who always claim to have the best are boring as hell in real life already. I'll certainly not start running with the sheep in a game. 😁 I like your way of arguments by the way. and yes: Oak/crew space is serious stuff on certain ships.

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1 hour ago, Louis Garneray said:

this discussion has certainly more to do with PVP server

Nope. It concerns all of us.

Notice that I am not the only PvE player writing in this thread. If even my colleagues don't necessarily ride the same horse and differ from my opinion.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac
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2 hours ago, FrostZone said:

The problem is that new wood types should be incremental changes that give players more options, not completely change the dynamic of every ship built for the past 9 mos.

Still did not you learn the lesson?

This change is just a way to oblige people to throw in the toilet all their seasoned wood hard earned ship and re-grind their … off.

It has always been that way in this game.

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9 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

If nothing changes, it will be so rare that you need ages until you have gathered enough to build a ship larger than a 6th rate. No real competition for beloved seasoned woods.

But I hope the spawning will be a bit more frequent in the future.

In any case, the idea behind new woods was to give crafting a new justification opposite all that DLC redeeming. Same people who mourned over ship crafting being "useless" may call me 'brown-nosed' on global chat, but that is great and is what our (I still use our and not mine) business needed. Now devs just take the opportunity of that novelty in ship crafting business for a major overhaul of all woods.

Very unsurprising, the usual complaining started, as it always starts with things being new, like there was a wave of complaining about port boni introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!"), about seasoned woods introduction ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!") or when this or that DLC ship came ("oh our meta ships become obsolete!")...

1) new woods remain super rare = nothing changes.

2) new woods will be rare = only the super rich/large clans will profit

3) new woods drop more frequent = new meta will evolve. We get cookie cutter builds again, only with different woods.

 

This patch was not what crafting needs. It's just repeating the old mistakes with new woods.

 

Edited by Jan van Santen
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I think it’s good that new woods are introduced. I also think that woods over all should reduce the capacity for ships to reprint in battle. Let’s be honest the get nuked, run and reprint and do this over and over rhetoric is yawn and needs addressing in this update,  some people also call it almost skill lol. 
My concerns are that woods such as Live oak, White Oak, Teak and fir will become less useful or redundant in comparison to new woods. This being a problem because so many people have invested so much time in setting up forrests and upgrades to harvest for mentioned woods. How common will these ‘rare’ woods be, how obtainable and what methods of getting these new woods will there be? 

 

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