National Reputation Persistence (Karma) - Entry to enemy battles.

[Malcolm3]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

It was described in the main post too.

Perhaps not quite clearly, hence the questions.
Nevertheless, thanks for an answer here

P.S. There are other issues to clarify still.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

They should be able to join ONLY pirate side. Ever. Never any other nation.

Also no nation should EVER side with pirates. Hence never able to join pirate side.

How's that for unique ?

That is an idea. Let's hear what pirates have to say about it.

[Malcolm3]

4 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I like the reputation idea and karma payment to fix it later. But I think pirates should be exempt from it, as it is their nature to attack anyone. So here is a great opportunity to implement something special for pirates. For that freedom of course they need to get some disadvantage elsewhere to compensate for it.

Agreed. I also like the idea of reputtation and partially the method, but I'm greatly afraid that it will be implemented poorly just as like Wind Boosts.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Malcolm3

[Hethwill]

Just now, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

That is an idea. Let's hear what pirates have to say about it.

Hostis humani generis.

They know what they are. And they must accept it.

[SnovaZdorowa]

Вот типичная побочка. Собрали мы группу. Видим бой, например куча испанцев ганкает прусса. Испанцы враги, надо их бить. В группе есть игроки, которые успели испортить отношения с пруссией. Теперь надо считать не только сколько игроков сможет зайти в бой по БР, но и по стендингу. И тут либо сильно не дотягиваем по БР, либо оставляем кого-то в море, либо и то и другое. Минус интересный бой. Второй вопрос - сколько надо пачке времени, чтобы разобраться кто куда сможет зайти. А если это 2-х минутный подкреп и решение надо принять мгновенно? 

Вот Вам альтернативное решение (исключительно, чтобы тратить меньше времени на репорты, политику в игре надо делать другими методами): публичная порка. Вы вывешиваете в итерфейсе, кто за что наказан и как. Эксплойтили механику группового боя - запрет на месяц заходить через подкреп в принципе. Повторно на три. Хамил в баттлчате - бан чата на неделю. В клане отличилось двое - бан чата клану. Повторно месяц.

И это должны все видеть, на загрузочном экране. Был рассказ у Шекли, "Пушка, которая не бабахает". Вот у Вас прям 1 в 1 сейчас.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by SnovaZdorowa

[Rouleur07]

One question - are PZ battles excluded or included in Karma changes?
Also if it was excluded then the new system would be more of an RvR choice and PZ remains as is - you don't have to go there if you don't want to

Edited June 11, 2020 by Rouleur07
added content

[erelkivtuadrater]

15 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

They should be able to join ONLY pirate side. Ever. Never any other nation.

Also no nation should EVER side with pirates. Hence never able to join pirate side.

How's that for unique ?

i would love if they added a third side to a battle. So you would have nation vs nation vs pirates. This way pirats would be free to kill for whoever side and they could attack either nations they want, even the national players could team up against the pirates.

[Urchin]

14 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

this no longer makes you a solo player. makes u affiliate player. same thing as now. so your claims of whatever gone poof

 

in case u missed! 

Nope not at all, because I can still choose to wipe any alliance and go back to attacking them anytime I please for a price. But for helping friends of a specific nation for a short period of time or longer it's a welcome change. 

Solo means no clan tags and the benefits of being in a clan,  that doesn't change. 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

1 minute ago, Urchin said:

Nope not at all, because I can still choose to wipe any alliance and go back to attacking them anytime I please for a price. But for helping friends of a specific nation for a short period of time or longer it's a welcome change. 

Solo means no clan tags and the benefits of being in a clan,  that doesn't change. 

but so can anyone. so how this change anything then? just add cost to doing it. 

there no benefit to being in clan. only if you want to ship build. thats all

 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by BoatyMcBoatFace

[Urchin]

2 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

but so can anyone. so how this change anything then? just add cost to doing it. 

there no benefit to being in clan. only if you want to ship build. thats all

 

 

Well seems doesn't matter what I say you are going to argue against it anyway or it's just going straight over your head. Back to topic. 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

For those who think Pirates should be exempt to make them "special" - it has long been established that Pirates are just another nation, with ports, an uncapturable island with Capital Fleets, and ships of the line.

You cannot have your Disney Fantasy AND be exempt from the rules of everyone else.  IMHO, the only way pirates should be treated as anything other than a faction with a black flag is if they are forced to act like real pirates - Free Ports Only, no RvR.

 

[Doktor_Livsi]

А не кажется ли вам, уважаемы разработчики, что пораопределиться в каком направлении вы хотите развивать проэкт?
тип А: С одной стороны вы хотите видеть открытый мир в котороместь альянсы, фракции и развитая экономическая система, объединение наций по группам, небольшие фракции внутри наций и все прочее за что мы так любимигры с открытым миром. И бесспорно в таком мире ваше нововеедение смотрелось бы как нельзя лучше и придало бы интерес и усилило ролевую составляющую. 
тип Б: С другой же стороны мы видим смещение в сторону сессионых игр, акцентированых на ПВП легкое и доступное. В контексте этого направления очень хорошо смотрятся уже введеные ДЛС корабли, то что разрешили захватывать НПС корабли высоких рангов и в перспективе удаление дублонов из крафта кораблей. 

проблема только в одном.  Эти два направления взаимно исключают друг друга.
В игре типа А каждый корабль и каждая постройка, каждый элемент игры должны быть частью экономической системы. корабли не должны браться из воздуха, а их стоимость должна быть прямо пропорциональна их эфективновности или редкости.(ДЛС корабли уничтожают внутриигровую экономику. )  Корабль первого ранга должен быть доступен только еденецам игроков, или топовым кланам. в игре Типа А абсолютно неуместны редутабли и виктори и тем более неуместны корабли из (с) дерева. каждый такой корабль введенный в игру забивает новый гвоздь в крышку экономической системы. Вам чтоб сравнять других игроков с теми кто заплатил заредутабль приходится упрощать и без того по детски простой крафт, что в свою очередь абсолютно не способствует развитию открытого мира. (и я настаиваю что в такой игре должны иметь место исключительно косметические ДЛС) 
А в игре типа Б как карман, пришитый на причинное место, выглядит  введение системы кармы да и открытый мир в целом. Для такой игры, которая ориентирована на ПВП доступное для всех, на много лучше подошел бы формат сесионного варгейма. и донатные корабли сразу заняли бы свое место. 

Я очень люблю этот проэкт и болею за него. и нахожу очень грустным то, как он развивается в последнее время. Я знаю, что бля меня намного интересне будет проэкт типа А, но допускаю что прокому-то интереснее было бы играть в бои без открытого мира.  

подводя итог хочу сказать что введение системы кармы будет смотреться донельзя странно в игре в которую вводят все упрощающиеся и упрощающиеся механики по добыче кораблей под знаменем повышения доступности ПВП, пусть это и приносит деньги разарботчикам (длс) но убивает внутриигровую экономику.

Все люди разные и все любят различный геймплей. в других проэктах это реализуется наличием многих серверов с разными настройками мира. и я бы многое отдал чтоб настроить свой сервер и играть на нем с единомышлениками в ту игру в которую я хочу
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Google translate
_______________________________________________________________________________________

What do you think, dear developers?
you should see an open world in which there are alliances, fractions and a developed economic system, uniting groups by groups; There is nothing better than ever.
We see that we see that in PVP there is a legoe and affordable. High-altitude ships, high-altitude ships, high-altitude ships.

there is only one problem. These two directions are mutually exclusive.
Each element of the game must be part of the economic system. ships must destroy the in-game economy. The first rank ship should only be available to players or top clans. Ships made of wood (c) wood. each such ship put into play hammer a new nail into the lid of the economic system. You must compare other players with those who paid for it. I must have a place for serious cosmetic DLS.
The introduction of the karma system and the open world as a whole. For this, the format of session wargame is best suited. and donation ships would immediately take their place.

I really love this project and am a fan of it. and he is very lecherous as he has been developing lately. I know that it will be interesting, so it will be interesting to play battles without an open world.

In the end, I want to say that the creation of a system of pocket ships should ensure the high availability of PVP, even if it brings money to the parsers (forced), but it kills the in-game economy.

All people are different and everyone loves different gameplay. This will last through a variety of servers with different world settings. and I would really like it to be a server.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Doktor_Livsi

[Never]

The 'never be able to join a battle with x nation' is a little worrying. So if I join a battle against Spain then I can never again help Spain in a fight? Literally never again? 
Isn't that too extreme? Or am I understanding it wrong? 

I think there should be karma points you can recover or points against each nation you attack that slowing fade away or some form of cooldown timer. So if I attacked Denmark for example, then I can't help for some time but not forever. 

Also please make it void in Patrol Zones. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Never

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Never said:

So if I attacked Denmark for example, then I can't help for some time but not forever. 

If you JOIN a battle against Denmark.

Not ATTACK.

 

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Koltes said:

Also this is pirate's life is to attack everyone. In a week time I will attack every nation on the server and then what? Cant join other players battles anymore?
Who would have stopped me to side with someone in the OW or attack someone in the OW? Karma or not. Am I not the owner of my actions anymore?

 

I do not see what your issue is with this. If you, as a pirate attack every other nations vessels then you are declaring that all other nations are enemies, so why would you want to join one of their battles to help one of them? You still have full freedom to attack other nations ships and help other pirates in battles, so you are the owner of your actions.

[Suppenkelle]

1 hour ago, Knuddel said:

U basicly killed the Prussian ability to trade. Or defend against Swedish gankers. What about Ports which are free for all?

There is no need to defend against Swedish gankers. Sweden is a peaceful nation. 

[Rouleur07]

I think there is a lot to be said for open world Karma and Patrol Zone chaos - perhaps the devs could give us a view on whether the new system can be worked so it excludes the PZ itself - will also help player to get there and home afterwards when outside the PZs.

 

[z4ys]

To help vs language barrier:

Ihr könnt weiterhin jede Nation angreifen solange es ein Kampf ist bei dem eure Nation gegen irgendeine andere kämpft. Also immer wenn ihr eure eigne Nationalflagge im Kampf habt ist das Karma System ohne Bedeutung. 

Solltet Ihr aber ein Kampf in der open world vorfinden zwischen zwei euch feindlichen Nationen dann müsst Ihr wählen. Denn dann gilt das Karma System. Sobald ihr euch entschieden habt könnt ihr ab diesem Punkt nurnoch dieser Nation für die ihr euch entschieden habt unterstützen.

Beispiele:

Ihr greift als Preuße einen Schweden an = Karma system greift nicht

Ihr joined als Preuße einem Gefecht zwischen Preußen und Russland = Karma system greift nicht

Ihr joined als Preuße einem Gefecht zwischen Russland und Spanien auf der Seite Spaniens = Karma System greift. Von nun an könnt ihr keinem Gefecht mehr auf Seiten Russlands beitreten ( Außer ihr kauft euch gegen eine hohe Summe reals/doubloons frei) 

Edited June 11, 2020 by z4ys

[Archaos]

3 hours ago, admin said:

You will be able to clean your reputation if you made a mistake by paying a significant fine.

I like the change you are proposing and I think that despite a lot of complaints it will work out quite well in practice. I think it will lead to a lot more even fights without people jumping in on the side of the nation that already has greater numbers.

The one thing I would say is that maybe bad reputation could decay over time rather than just be paid off. Still keep a payment option for low bad reputation so people who make a mistake can repair their reputation, but for persistent offenders a slow decay would be good to prove that they have changed their ways. This will help people who do not regularly change nations (I am assuming that using prolific forger will have to reset reputation). The decay could also be accelerated by not attacking any of that nations vessels at all, that way as alliances change you could go through a period of non-aggression to get rid of reputation before becoming allied.

[Vibrio Cholerae]

2 hours ago, admin said:

And it solves the griefing exploit.

 

 I don’t see how it will help preventing the Chinese player from grefing

[Swedish Berserker]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Please discuss the content contained in the MAIN POST. Main posts discusses only battle entry rights. 
The rest of the discussion is just air and can be safely ignored.

Main posts has zero information about trade or delivery missions

If u implementing it in Open world Battles its OKish but it should not apply in PZ Battles! 

Patrol zone is the Wild West lol everyone should be still able to fight everyone 

[andy1357912]

2 hours ago, admin said:

For example in the future if you never attacked a British player you will be able to visit their ports and use their infrastructure. 
 

does this mean you can enter other nation port in warship, even craft resources and build ship? or just able to enter port repair ship and shop?

[Gregory Rainsborough]

But Russian clans that make loads of cash could just pay to clear it every time they leave port...? You have to make it *really* expensive.

[Archaos]

4 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

But Russian clans that make loads of cash could just pay to clear it every time they leave port...? You have to make it *really* expensive.

This is why it should be time decay rather than a single payment or a use of prolific forger to reset reputation.

[Louis Garneray]

I'm trying to understand the Karma thing...

I can initiate any fight against any nation and it doesn't affect my karma

But if I join someone else battle I'll change my karma toward the "victim"? And then clean your karma with money? It sounds like the Catholic Church when they were selling Indulgences to sinners...

Why not have something simpler: let us see who our enemy is in open water and allow alliance to clans.