Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
RepairyMcRepairous

The New Escape/Tagging battle mechanics

Recommended Posts

Me and several others don't fully understand them, and know of several "issues" and "benefits" of the system.

Use bellow to post any tips, benefits, problems, solutions, you found out about them please :).

1 - I found that if you shoot the enemy your timer resets but there's continues until you do the required damage, meaning you cant tell how long until they escape.

2 - Sailing upwind to escape means the chaser has no choice whatsoever but to give up ground in order to do the required damage

3 - Stern camping is a great way to escape now.

4 - Control perk is now essential if you want to pvp, imo.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Maybe ships are too agile and sail outside rig envelope, to be able to do such wake positioning and going that "fast" beyond close haul.

Edited by Hethwill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2. always been like that. you always had to turn if you wanted to try to chain down or broadside, giving up massive distance (assuming ship speeds close)

3. you could never kill with stern camp alone. you always had to kill crew and board or stern to minimum to slow so you can catch sides and work from there. 

 

no comment on the others

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, RepairyMcRepairous said:

 

1 - I found that if you shoot the enemy your timer resets but there's continues until you do the required damage, meaning you cant tell how long until they escape.

 

 

Yes.
Shooter - the person shooting at target
Target - the person shot at

Target must receive a % of HP over 1 min - to reset the exit timer (3 mins)
Shooter can just hit the target to renew the exit timer (3 mins)

Only passive target can really escape using the new mechanics. If target is shooting - it basically is using old tag system. I love it personally, for me it solves all issues with old system.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

2. always been like that. you always had to turn if you wanted to try to chain down or broadside, giving up massive distance (assuming ship speeds close)

3. you could never kill with stern camp alone. you always had to kill crew and board or stern to minimum to slow so you can catch sides and work from there. 

 

no comment on the others

2 - what I meant was before you could keep tagging with bows until you caught up, now you wont catch them before their 3min timmer :) now you can literally sail upwind if you are far enough away for 3mins then poof xD (no matter how fast the other guy is) . and "far" is pretty close.

3 - I mean sit behind someone for 3mins and they have to expose themselves very badly if they want to keep you in battle. its a great way to escape a battle you start loosing imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, admin said:

Only passive target can really escape using the new mechanics. If target is shooting - it basically is using old tag system. I love it personally, for me it solves all issues with old system.

But that means you don't know if the enemy is tagged or not. Because you don't know if you did enough percentage damage or not. It means you can suddenly have the target disappear from under your nose while your timer is still counting down. There is no way now to really know if you successfully tagged the enemy or not when you're chasing.

At least give us a second timer for the targets countdown, or at least an indicator of a successful tag of the enemy.

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, RepairyMcRepairous said:

Use bellow to post any tips, benefits, problems, solutions, you found out about them please :).

Thanks OP. I was about to post precisely this topic. Because we need someplace to put feedback specifically about the new tagging system. There are a lot of positive things about it, but there are some significant drawbacks also:

1. People get accidentally "griefed" a sometimes now. Somebody tags an AI and accidentally, unwittingly drags you in. To get out of battle you have to wait 8 long minutes. Happens most of all around capitals. 

Give us a shorter initial escape timer if no cannonballs are exchanged between players.

2. Ships can escape when you switch to graping them for boarding, or while you're tacking to reposition and shooting them with chasers. There should be a rule that once a ship is damaged (reversible with repair) beyond a certain threshold (means it's a real battle and not an instance of griefing) simple hits will work as tags like with the old system. The threshold could be 40% structure damage, 60% total side damage and 35% sail damage respectively.

3. Like OP's point 1. Tagging needs to be mutually reflected, or you have no way of knowing if you successfully tagged the enemy or not. It leads to a lot of unsatisfactory conclusions of battles (as bad as griefing) when the enemy can escape right before you're about to finish him off just because you didn't know that you didn't tag him properly. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best way to know if enemy is tagged is to use area control

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We will deploy improvements on the threshold - (reducing it) to allow more consistency if you are actually fighting the target
We will also reduce the tagging circle from 1km to 650m to make defensive tag useless, to open up more options in the current system.

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, admin said:

We will deploy improvements on the threshold and the timer tomorrow 
We will also reduce the tagging circle from 1km to 650m to make defensive tag useless.

Why didn't you repeat experience with test server for refining new ROE tagging system, just like last year, when you introduced new gunnery damage model?
It worked quite well and participants were quite eager to share their impressions and thoughts.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe reintroduce Coward Perk.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

Why didn't you repeat experience with test server for refining new ROE tagging system, just like last year, when you introduced new gunnery damage model?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

2. always been like that. you always had to turn if you wanted to try to chain down or broadside, giving up massive distance (assuming ship speeds close)

3. you could never kill with stern camp alone. you always had to kill crew and board or stern to minimum to slow so you can catch sides and work from there. 

 

no comment on the others

This is such BS that I can't think of where to begin. Stern camping is the easiest way to sink someone, especially if you drop a few carros up front, then you can cheese your way to a win because your fir/fir and they're something slightly slower.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, magnus2005 said:

This is such BS that I can't think of where to begin. Stern camping is the easiest way to sink someone, especially if you drop a few carros up front, then you can cheese your way to a win because your fir/fir and they're something slightly slower.

i could explain but that means explaining to somebody who has no basic concept of damage model

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, RepairyMcRepairous said:

2 - what I meant was before you could keep tagging with bows until you caught up, now you wont catch them before their 3min timmer :) now you can literally sail upwind if you are far enough away for 3mins then poof xD (no matter how fast the other guy is) . and "far" is pretty close.

3 - I mean sit behind someone for 3mins and they have to expose themselves very badly if they want to keep you in battle. its a great way to escape a battle you start loosing imo.

even before often times to actually catch you had to turn to drop their sails; again, always risk you wont do enough/miss/they pop rep and you lose all that distance.

 

shooting from bows only for 1 hour while trying to catch up was rarer than most make it out to be

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the new tagging system shows how important the weather gage is and was. The one holding the weather gage can decide either to engage or withdraw 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Had a battle against someone from toxic clan. After some words forth and back I said OK. Lets do this and go in. I did an entire boardside of my inger into his inger. I couldn't leave I was like OK fine. I keep him tagged. My timer goes down to 2 min and enemy left. Ahm guys.   How much dmg should I do? 

From all forms. Well of you had a slower ship and the enemy a fast ship but u manage to get an defensive tag it took ages for enemy to close in with front chasers. Now you can even in a  slow ship escape easily.  I personal like this idea. How ever sometimes I think the % of dmg you have to do doesn't really fit with the ships we sail. Sometimes it feels like x ship can't do enough dmg from one boardside to keep ship y tagged.  But I don't have an 100% proof here. It just felt like that. I would love to get a bit more light into it. 

Maybe timer is red and when you do enough dmg to keep enemy 3 mins in it turns green?  So we would see if it's tagged or not. After 2 mins like old timer was it turns either back to red to signal "hey buddy one minute to either tag or let him leave" or stays green. 

For group fights I would keep the same and you have to remember who you did shoot. 

Any better ideas on that one? 

Edited by Lukas97Austria
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

Etc etc etc shooting from bows only for 1 hour etc.

You missed the point entirely, even if the chaser is faster, or much faster, as long as you have a reasonable distance, you can escape so easily sailing upwind now.

Even if the chaser would catch you in 5mins. They can't get you anyway, they have no choice but to try to put a broadside through your stern just to keep you tagged. And we all know how much ground that gives up in a chase, especially if you tack too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Anolytic said:

At least give us a second timer for the targets countdown, or at least an indicator of a successful tag of the enemy.

Simply, no. I love it as it is now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Anolytic said:

At least give us a second timer for the targets countdown, or at least an indicator of a successful tag of the enemy.

Hm. Not sure if showing the timer is really good. In large battles, you'd need a timer shown for everyone. Your screen would be full with countdowns. Perhaps another visual indicator would be better, e.g. a flickering of the name tag? Or increase of transparency on the battleflag, so the flag seems to vanish when the timer approaches?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
Quote

At least give us a second timer for the targets countdown, or at least an indicator of a successful tag of the enemy.


The best would be something like reload shock icon to inform you if ship is tagged (might be a green/blue one). As it's the same case. You can deal enough dmg  with 3 ships chasing to keep enemy taged but none of the ships dealt enough themselves to  keep him tagged. So if let's say limit is 3%HP (it's not, but let's assume) and each ship deals 1%, so 1%+1%+1%=3% target ship is tagged. But at the same time none of the individual ship could keep him in battle(1% per ship), that's why it can not be tied to shooter ship. Hence it's the same case as the reload shock

P.S. Even better would be a 2 stage icon, with 1st stage showing 2 mins to leave and 2nd indicating 1 min to leave the battle.

Edited by Atimk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Anolytic said:

At least give us a second timer for the targets countdown, or at least an indicator of a successful tag of the enemy.

👍👍👍

Enemy exit timer visualisation (decrease line)

image.png

Edited by SnovaZdorowa
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2020 at 8:01 PM, admin said:

Yes.
Shooter - the person shooting at target
Target - the person shot at

Target must receive a % of HP over 1 min - to reset the exit timer (3 mins)
Shooter can just hit the target to renew the exit timer (3 mins)

Only passive target can really escape using the new mechanics. If target is shooting - it basically is using old tag system. I love it personally, for me it solves all issues with old system.
 

Me and a Friend tagged a bellona today and even though we both shot at it with front chasers he was able to escape even though we were right behind him! I understand that u take away the 1km sail tagging but if u are close to the enemy it is broken that he can just leave lol!!! 

Mabey make it like in PZ that u can only leave if enemy is xxxMeters away or something...... 

Just saying 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Swedish Berserker said:

Mabey make it like in PZ that u can only leave if enemy is xxxMeters away or something...... 

Just saying 

Its called control perk costs 3 points and is already ingame. You need to do 2% dmg. Chasers wont do that much - maybe 68pd carros tho

Edited by z4ys
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, z4ys said:

Its called control perk costs 3 points and is already ingame. You need to do 2% dmg. Chasers wont do that much - maybe 68pd carros tho

It’s amazing we haven’t seen screaming for lower the cost of control perk. When it happens, I hope they don’t listen. The new tagging mechanic is a very good thing and if one wants to bypass it, it should cost heavily. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...