New RVR Mechanics - Descriptions and feedback

[Knuddel]

I have some serius Question: Are Portbattles still locked? If not does anybody have a Flag to set one? I mean since friday no portbattles.... Did i accsedentaly logged in on the PVE server? 

 

So be a bit more serios:  

How to get those Flags? 

[Hethwill]

23 minutes ago, Knuddel said:

So be a bit more serios:  

How to get those Flags? 

By fighting Home Defense Fleets, as stated in the opening post by admin. There's more details there.

Edited June 2, 2020 by Hethwill

[DonH]

Could we get HDF if lets say a certain nation controls a regional capital and all of its tows associated to it? hence the need to farm this fleets around capitals will lock new players inside Capital area because of fear to encounter a mayor fleet farming these fleets, also nations without home capital have an advantage on this, cause they dont have to protect their home waters from farming fleets, it will also give more strategical importance to control a full region and all of its towns. This fleets compositions could be different and even upgradeable in the region capital...  

[Hethwill]

Just an observation:

- Red circle is a battle against Home Defense Fleet generated by La Habana.

- Arrows are possible bases with ships to respond against aggressors.

Battle is at the northern limit of their patrol zone. Key West is still visible in the distant haze. ( I tested it, both trinc and cerb fleets will turn away from chase there )

There's zero chance of local forces to reinforce the Home Defense Fleet to deny the flag, even with timer of 5 minutes.

- not saying it is okay or not okay, just plain observation of event and leave it here for devs to consider in their design.

[Dekillos]

Немного потеоретизирую. Как показывала практика в EvE, никто не будет реагировать на атаку подготовленной группы вне жестких таймеров, дающих время на подготовку защите. Большинство выбиваний флага будет без ответа, люди не будут рисковать кораблями вступая в бой, где половина команды НПЦ. Если бы инстанс не закрывался и была возможность дозаходить в бой по мере потопления своей команды и реализовать преимущество в бОльшем количестве защитников, которое бы компенсировало неорганизованность защиты и внезапность нападения, то реакция могла бы быть и генерировались интересные бои. А так людям неинтересно просто убиваться об организованную группу атакующих. Атакующие в данной ситуации имеют гораздо больше преимуществ чем защита(у них есть лидер, они собраны по своему оптимальному онлайну с ключевыми игроками, состав их кораблей и фитов оптимален для атаки).

I’m a little bit theoretical. As practice in EvE has shown, no one will react to an attack by a prepared group outside of hard timers that give time for defense preparation. Most flag knockouts will be unanswered; people will not risk ships engaging in battle, where half the NPC team. If the instance was not closed and there was an opportunity to enter the battle as your team sank and realize an advantage in a larger number of defenders, which would compensate for the disorganization of the defense and the surprise of the attack, then interesting fights could be generated. And so people are not interested in simply killing about an organized group of attackers. Attackers in this situation have much more advantages than defense (they have a leader, they are assembled according to their optimal online with key players, the composition of their ships and feats is optimal for attack).

[DonH]

21 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Just an observation:

- Red circle is a battle against Home Defense Fleet generated by La Habana.

- Arrows are possible bases with ships to respond against aggressors.

Battle is at the northern limit of their patrol zone. Key West is still visible in the distant haze. ( I tested it, both trinc and cerb fleets will turn away from chase there )

There's zero chance of local forces to reinforce the Home Defense Fleet to deny the flag, even with timer of 5 minutes.

- not saying it is okay or not okay, just plain observation of event and leave it here for devs to consider in their design.

Could you please test this for the rest of the capitals please???

[Hethwill]

Maybe.

I know Swedish area most close to a possible enemy base is just west of Fort Baai. Once the port is in the distance, but can still make out the details, the fleets turn about.

La Habana seems to be a very unique situation given Key West is pretty much at an arms reach of the HDF sailing around.

[DonH]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Maybe.

I know Swedish area most close to a possible enemy base is just west of Fort Baai. Once the port is in the distance, but can still make out the details, the fleets turn about.

La Habana seems to be a very unique situation given Key West is pretty much at an arms reach of the HDF sailing around.

what about Kingston????Mortimer????Willemstad????

Edited June 4, 2020 by DonH

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, DonH said:

what about Kingston????

AS far as the shallows south, west beyond carlisle half way to savanna and east to morant. North side have none.

[DonH]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

AS far as the shallows south, west beyond carlisle half way to savanna and east to morant. North side have none.

north side having none doesnt feel very fair...

[Hethwill]

My observations are simply regarding the RvR situation.

Having to attack Home Defense Fleets to get access to Conquest flag.

 

[DonH]

Sure thing, my observations are regarding that giving specific info on only one side, is exactly that, onesided... Please work on the rest, so we can compare.

THX

[Archaos]

41 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Just an observation:

- Red circle is a battle against Home Defense Fleet generated by La Habana.

- Arrows are possible bases with ships to respond against aggressors.

Battle is at the northern limit of their patrol zone. Key West is still visible in the distant haze. ( I tested it, both trinc and cerb fleets will turn away from chase there )

There's zero chance of local forces to reinforce the Home Defense Fleet to deny the flag, even with timer of 5 minutes.

- not saying it is okay or not okay, just plain observation of event and leave it here for devs to consider in their design.

I do not see what is unique regarding this situation, Fort Baai is capturable and closer to the Swedish Capital, same with Amalienborg to the Danish capital and even Coro to the Dutch capital. Even looking at La Navasse in relation to the GB HDF's you can see they all have similar distances, so if you allow ports close to your capital to be captured you are inviting in HDF farmers and there will be little you can do to counter them.

If you are just referring to where reinforcements can come from, then I guess it just comes down to geography, some places on the map have lots of ports close by while others the ports are more spread out. 

[Knuddel]

Dear Defs so fare i ddnt see any PB. What happend with RVR, excluded out of the game at the monemt?

 

[Hethwill]

@Archaos Correct.

Difference is, no other nation has enemies so much close to their front door

I do not agree on code changes of this, maybe just join timers at best.

In the end is an observation and players may --- or not ---- act upon it.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Hethwill

[DonH]

Sure thing, but i really think that all HDF should cover the entire capital region, but not all the capital regions contain the same area, and number of towns, so there should be some work done around that to convey the differences between this regions to make the system fair, and not more easily exploitable/farmeable, and more easily defendeable for others. 

[Karpfanger]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:27 PM, admin said:

Port battle Transport

Port battle transport is simple

Mechanics

• Admiralty allows the Captains (who acquired the item) to transport to the port battle instantly without wasting time
• Admiralty will transport the battle group of players to one of the locations that is used by NPC Raiders (points 2 or 3 on Felix's map)
• After transport players will have some invisibility and speed boost to join the battle

Rules

• Players must be in battle group
• Only creator of the battle group can use the item
• Battegroup players must be in port 
• Item wont be cheap. 

Does this mean that the attacker can only join the PB with this Battle Transport? i.e. there is no possibility to join later and at different points or with different ships than originally intended?

I think this would take away a lot of tactical depth and possibilities from the PBs.

What if you still had the option to join from the OW? That would add some more content again.

What happens after the PB? Will the PB fleet be safely transported back to the port of origin? Or will it then be ripped apart by the now bored screening fleet?

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

@Archaos Correct.

Difference is, no other nation has enemies so much close to their front door

I do not agree on code changes of this, maybe just join timers at best.

In the end is an observation and players may --- or not ---- act upon it.

 

That may be true in the current map, but the same can be said for many other situations in the game when looking at nations. Remember when the nations green zones were bigger, Sweden actually had a capturable port within their green zone. Spain has  big advantage from a map wipe of securing the gulf as there are no other nations close (this actually worked out as a negative as others realized this too and there was a rush). Every nation has advantages and disadvantages due to their position on the map and these also change with how the map changes with RvR.

If Spain feel this is a problem then capture the ports North of their capital and make it harder for people to farm the HDF's there. Remember the flags that drop are not nation specific, so there is no guarantee that the flags that drop from those fleets will be used against Spain. In fact if farming flags there is so easy then other nations may see Key West as a good target, same with lots of other ports round the map. I think it adds another layer of tactics to the game, having bases that you can easily farm HDF's.

[DonH]

I am stating that there are differences in area and number of towns associated to capitals, we dont even know the frequency, number, and spawn points of the HDFs. I am concerned on the equity and fairness of the system, as a hole, not in particular. Even some nations dont even have to worry about their capital waters, because they dont have any, thus the stress on the players, new and old, of certain nations will be definitely different, and in my opinion thats is not good design.

Imho HDFs should spawn from all the capitals where a single nation owns all of the towns in it. HDFs should be upgradeable by clans owning the regional capital, if they get destroyed, clans have to invest on them again.

[Hethwill]

3 minutes ago, DonH said:

we dont even know the frequency, number, and spawn points of the HDFs.

Big circle around capital city - La Habana, Port Royal, etc

Number of fleets is the same, from what i could count in different areas.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Hethwill

[DonH]

What about sail distance? Do they sail only around the capital? or do they sail around the capital and its associated towns???

[Hethwill]

As I said, they go beyong Carlisle and around Port Morant.

In Swedish waters they sail around the capital island. Dutch, the same. France is similar to GB.

Denmark i didn't see any south of the capital island so not sure.

Spanish they go to Bahia Honda almost and beyond Matanzas.

C'mon man, look to the map and figure it out

Or grab a trader lynx / lynx and see for yourself.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Hethwill

[DonH]

So there are differences on sailing distance, and area covered. Thanks, but am not happy with this design, should be almost equal for all imho. 👋

[Hethwill]

There's not. You making up stuff to fit your agenda.

Go out there and check for yourself.

Go first with a Lynx.

Then go with 30BR and over small ship so small HDF chases you.

Then go with a 100 BR one so the big ones chase you.

You will know where they turn.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Hethwill

[DonH]

 

12 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

As I said, they go beyong Carlisle and around Port Morant.

In Swedish waters they sail around the capital island. Dutch, the same. France is similar to GB.

Denmark i didn't see any south of the capital island so not sure.

Spanish they go to Bahia Honda almost and beyond Matanzas.

C'mon man, look to the map and figure it out

Or grab a trader lynx / lynx and see for yourself.

Just look at the map, there are differences on the areas covered.