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Flash fire frequency

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I'm thinking that these happen too often. Just did a battle against an AI Chinese fleet. They had 4 battlecruisers with their main armament in a hexagonal layout ala the Nassau class. 3 ships had flash fires: 1 had one, 1 had 3, and the 3rd had 5 turrets cook off. Even accounting for the AI having thin belts (8" iirc), and minimal bulkheads, 5 out of 6 turrets is a bit much I think.

I've never had a flash fire on my designs, but the AI seems VERY prone to them.

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Ye, they seem to be more promenant than magazine explosions. Too be honest the main factors for flash fires should be a combo of ignited ammo, poor or obstructed damage control, fires both external and internal, and maybe additional shells and explosions.

I guess because everything is basic atm it will take some time before we get proper damage models, animations and the amrour rework most have talking about (myself included) on the forums.

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From my observations the propellant/explosives seem to play a big part in the flashfire chance. With Lyddite shells flash fires happen a lot more often than with more stable explosives.

And right now the AI seems to be very fond of Lyddite.

 

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As far as I have noticed, flash fires on DD's is nothing uncommon, in DD vs DD scenario. Well it might have something to do with AI ship design (some main guns and 3 lesser caliber guns broadside). But i'm not so sure if 3 inch gun ammunition would be able to send turret flying.

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This is going to be improved in the next update. Flash fires should happen more likely on ships with large main guns and ammo storages, while on DD they will not happen as often.

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18 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

This is going to be improved in the next update. Flash fires should happen more likely on ships with large main guns and ammo storages, while on DD they will not happen as often.

Is that the difference between bagged and QF charges? Does mechanical versus handling play a role?

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Need to keep in mind, flash fires are created by the same type of hit that would create a regular fire. The difference is what is hit. If a shell hit creates a "flash" in ammo storage area (i.e. the handling rooms under turrets and the magzines) it has the potential (based on the type of explosives/powder) to ignite all of it.

Without making it too complex, if a hit happens in handling rooms, that would likely destroy turret. If it happens in the magazine, you're looking at destroying the ship. Now that is oversimplified because there are lots of factors to determine how big the explosion is and damage, chaining to other magazines, etc...

Nick will have to provide more details as to how they are calculating it. DDs technically should not be any less susceptible to turret explosions from flash, but as Nick implied they don't carry as much ammo either. Also over-pens are more common which would not cause a flash directly. 

As for mitigation techs, propellant would be the biggest factor. Followed by armor scheme, barbette thickness, and the amounts of armor (specifically belt, turret top and sides, and deck). In reality, bulkheads should not impact this since we are talking flash fire caused by a pen. Now fire that spreads inside the ship is another story and bulkheads would matter for the ability to contain fires. 

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On 5/21/2020 at 11:52 AM, madham82 said:

Need to keep in mind, flash fires are created by the same type of hit that would create a regular fire. The difference is what is hit. If a shell hit creates a "flash" in ammo storage area (i.e. the handling rooms under turrets and the magzines) it has the potential (based on the type of explosives/powder) to ignite all of it.

Without making it too complex, if a hit happens in handling rooms, that would likely destroy turret. If it happens in the magazine, you're looking at destroying the ship. Now that is oversimplified because there are lots of factors to determine how big the explosion is and damage, chaining to other magazines, etc...

Nick will have to provide more details as to how they are calculating it. DDs technically should not be any less susceptible to turret explosions from flash, but as Nick implied they don't carry as much ammo either. Also over-pens are more common which would not cause a flash directly. 

As for mitigation techs, propellant would be the biggest factor. Followed by armor scheme, barbette thickness, and the amounts of armor (specifically belt, turret top and sides, and deck). In reality, bulkheads should not impact this since we are talking flash fire caused by a pen. Now fire that spreads inside the ship is another story and bulkheads would matter for the ability to contain fires. 

While bulkheads in theory shouldn't reduce the chances of fires, in the game the bulkhead level represents the overall internal protection and damage control (for better or for worse). More advanced ships had better protection against flash fires, including both fireproof doors and valves to flood magazines should fire break out which should be represented either by the bulkheads or by another option in the ship constructor.

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The visual effect is clearly one of propellant charges igniting en masse, as is reckoned to have happened with HMS Hood, for example.

To my mind that sort of effect should NOT happen on any warship that doesn't have 2-part ammunition, as, unless I'm much mistaken, a brass round isn't typically vulnerable to that sort of flash effect.

Equally, seems silly for it to happen to an open mount hit.

The 'famous' flash fires came from main turret hits and the subsequent bursting charge making an explosion that travelled down the trunk of a main gun turret. Poor storage discipline can increase the chances.

A fire that reaches a magazine, however, ought to result in an explosion befitting the ammunition. For most ships, their main gun ammo magazine exploding would likely cause catastrophic loss of the vessel.

As it is, turrets flying left, right and centre on jets of blue flames like some sort of infernal champagne corks might look amusing, but they're pretty damn dopey ON A TRANSPORT, or indeed any small warship without propellant charges.

If it's a magazine explosion, it ought to be fatal. If it's a ship without propellant charges, there shouldn't BE such a thing other than a magazine explosion.

I commented elsewhere I thought putting this in while we/the AI have no means of mitigation seemed a pretty silly idea, and that creating effects that don't make much sense re a "propellent burn jet" on a ship without separate propellant isn't perhaps the greatest appeal to 'accuracy',  but what do I know.

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I just thought it was high for testing purposes. Also the armor system isn't done. Barbettes and citadels and whatnot are getting reworked afaik so that'd probably help a lot with it, same with crew mechanics whenever that comes into play. I do agree it looks ridiculous in most situations and should be reworked a little. Also like have fatal magazine detonations just disappeared? I've seen secondary ammo dets still plus torpedo magazine hits but main gun magazine hits just seems to result in flash fires now and the turret blowing off

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