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World Ceasefire Declared - Hostilities stop on Monday.

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1 hour ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

you people still claiming russians removed privateer fleets (which one could avoid given the position so its a non issue) specifically for that battle? is that tinfoil bs still floating around? sigh

I was there and check'd to call bullshit on this one but yes. On the day WTF lost baracoa there were no privateer fleets ingame for pirates

image.png.8fbe67c298f0024e649c07b2707d206e.png

Edited by rediii
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2 minutes ago, rediii said:

I was there and check'd to call bullshit on this one but yes. On the day WTF lost baracoa there were no privateer fleets ingame for pirates

image.png.8fbe67c298f0024e649c07b2707d206e.png

there are two separate issues tho.

 

1. privateer fleets get bugged all the time (check numerous history confirmed by ink of that happening)

2. russians had them removed specifically on that day. or got somebody from the office to do it...

 

the other thing is, baracoa was attacked many times. if they failed that time too it would have happened in 2-3 days again. and again. each attack resulted in fewer and fewer pirates helping so it was a matter of time. no need to even conceive anybody cared about the fleets.

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2 hours ago, rediii said:

I was there and check'd to call bullshit on this one but yes. On the day WTF lost baracoa there were no privateer fleets ingame for pirates

image.png.8fbe67c298f0024e649c07b2707d206e.png

I remember that, but that was for 2 days i think, it was all the privateer fleets around the map, not just around Mortimer, we searched for Spanish privateer fleets out of KW and found none.

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34 minutes ago, Nixolai said:

I remember that, but that was for 2 days i think, it was all the privateer fleets around the map, not just around Mortimer, we searched for Spanish privateer fleets out of KW and found none.

 

2 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

1. privateer fleets get bugged all the time (check numerous history confirmed by ink of that happening)

2. russians had them removed specifically on that day. or got somebody from the office to do it...

THEY did everything to make it look unsuspicious......

701642027506335824.png?v=1

 

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I've been at Mortimer multiple time with the others from my clan to grind wooden chests (long time before switching to Denmark) and we used to wait 30 minutes out of the line for the Capital Zone out of Mortimer (docks were very close) without having any Priv fleet chasing us. 
Also when Russians took Baracoa we were there and screened for them... they didn't get as close as to say "How come they weren't chaised?!"
It was just a foggy day out of Baracoa and screeners didn't see them (+ we and US helped them to get in despite the fact there were many pirates around) 

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12 hours ago, Archaos said:

The main driver for speed of a vessel is the motive power. It does not really matter what your length, beam, block coefficient, prismatic coefficient, displacement etc. are without the motive power you are not going anywhere.

For a fixed motive power then you can adjust these other parameters to get more speed. A modern super tanker could have a block coefficient of around 0.85 while the ships we are talking about in NA are around 0.687 for the Santisima Trinidad and 0.611 for the Victory, but the modern supertanker could easily do around 16 knots while the sailing ships could possibly do around 12 knots.

So when comparing speeds you need to look at the motive power first, which in the case of sail ships I guess is the sail area she can carry. Of course for sail ships this also gets further complicated because you cannot just keep adding more sail to get more speed as there is a limit to how much sail the masts can take and the power produced by the sail can differ depending on the wind. If you fix the sail area for both ships and the wind speed so both have the same motive force, then you can start looking at hull form and length to beam ratio to see which would be faster.

Edit: For those interested here is a link I found about comparing ship structures of the time under sail and under fire

http://oa.upm.es/1520/1/PONEN_FRANCISCO_FERNANDEZ_GONZALEZ_01.pdf

Thanks for the link, thats really interesting info :)

I agree about your points about hull design differences, but I would like to add that difference in sail area is probably not a factor.

There is plenty of sail area that can be configured on frigates and ships of the line, so much so that with enough wind you will lose efficiency of newly added sail/power because it will increasingly go into making the ship heel and increase drag and thus loss of efficiency, increase in leeway, or risk of capsizing.

If we are talking top speed we would have to assume "a lot of wind", and in that case these ships are probably more limited by their hull design than sail area, it is the hull that determines how efficient power can be turned into forward motion, how efficient it stays over the range of applied power via sail area increase and the optimum speed should be well below max sail area.

One would expect Montañes to have a more efficient hull for speed than say Ingermanland (if both ships were scaled to the same size), there is almost a century of ship building progress between them, but it is still true to say that Montañes will definetly be faster because she is longer and has a higher hull speed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Comrade FrosT said:

I've been at Mortimer multiple time with the others from my clan to grind wooden chests (long time before switching to Denmark) and we used to wait 30 minutes out of the line for the Capital Zone out of Mortimer (docks were very close) without having any Priv fleet chasing us. 
Also when Russians took Baracoa we were there and screened for them... they didn't get as close as to say "How come they weren't chaised?!"
It was just a foggy day out of Baracoa and screeners didn't see them (+ we and US helped them to get in despite the fact there were many pirates around) 

9b7.jpg

XD

Edited by Conte D. Catellani

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1 hour ago, Snoopy said:

Thanks for the link, thats really interesting info :)

 

 

 

that was indeed a good link @Archaos

send me more in pm if you have! we are collecting those. 

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On 5/21/2020 at 11:25 PM, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

u twist words well. do u believe your own tongue

 

VP did all that after ceasefire, aka after they lost. snow helped broker that agreement else maracaibo basin would be russian. then snow left nation. not before, and not other way around

 

no rvr players in sweden zerg didnt need a break. they had to save their ego so they just went on hiatus. sweden wanted that war. sweden was sure it was ez win. when realize not, they just leave. which fine,  but in process they drag spain, france, prussia, and suck playerbase from VP to make great russia kill swerg. sweden so cocky they screen for pirates too. they so cocky they take seasoned ships to mess around people's ports. look at us. we so good. we so rich. then they start losing battles and oops, season now expensive. we tired. etc. swexcuse engage!

 

ofc u dont like bastd.  they change nation and bring fight to your door. even if u 2 port they still attack.  staun and lars not gone bacause content. are you really sayin that? they always say once san juan danish again, they retire for time being. always say that. 

 

if san juan goes to another nation tomorrow, they back and resume. 

Nice, so I don't like BASTD?? Nonsense, right there, assumption all the way. Then Sweden was sure to win, what is there to be won?? Tell me, cause than maby some finally have a goal. The only thing there is is content, mostly bad content, but sometimes good. lose or win, that's all I look for. Now Russian clans like SHOCK, BF and in a way REDS to need to dominate the map, take all 55 pnt ports from nations than can endanger them, so they have better equipment if they fight an equal force. That's what the map shows me..you probably see something else than I do. And that's perfect well for me..

Also again, I have no issues with the Danes, never had, probably never will. I liked Staun, Lars and BOCAR for keeping the figt going, even if it didn't go in their favour..thing was that BASTD wanted to play into that role aswell, doesn't seem right. With BASTD the playerbase Danmark had started to look really fine again. Thing is, now I don't see any BOCAR around, and why is that??

 

o7

 

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7 hours ago, Snoopy said:

Thanks for the link, thats really interesting info :)

I agree about your points about hull design differences, but I would like to add that difference in sail area is probably not a factor.

There is plenty of sail area that can be configured on frigates and ships of the line, so much so that with enough wind you will lose efficiency of newly added sail/power because it will increasingly go into making the ship heel and increase drag and thus loss of efficiency, increase in leeway, or risk of capsizing.

If we are talking top speed we would have to assume "a lot of wind", and in that case these ships are probably more limited by their hull design than sail area, it is the hull that determines how efficient power can be turned into forward motion, how efficient it stays over the range of applied power via sail area increase and the optimum speed should be well below max sail area.

One would expect Montañes to have a more efficient hull for speed than say Ingermanland (if both ships were scaled to the same size), there is almost a century of ship building progress between them, but it is still true to say that Montañes will definetly be faster because she is longer and has a higher hull speed.

 

 

I agree with what you say, my point was a bit simplistic to indicate that just looking at length to breadth ratio and block coefficient does not tell you how fast a ship will be as that depends on the motive power. For sails, as I mentioned, you cannot just keep adding more and expect to go faster as other factors come into play, in the same way for modern ships you cannot keep increasing engine power to go faster as you have to consider the increased weight and "hull speed", although "hull speed" is not a limit and ships can exceed it.

The naval architect has to play around with all these figures when designing a vessel and there are always compromises made to achieve the optimal design for a particular vessel. In the case of super tankers one of the main requirements is cargo carrying capacity, the size of them increased during the Suez crisis when the canal was closed so oil from the Arabian Gulf had to be transported round the cape which was a much longer trip but speed was not essential if they could carry more. For fruit trades the ships needed to be quick as well as carry cargo so you get a finer form with a much lower block coefficient, its all a balance and the same types of compromises were made with ship designs in the age of sail.

Edit: on a side note another interesting article I came across regarding maneuverability of sailing warships

https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf 

For those interested in the subject here is another article regarding sail warship design

https://research-information.bris.ac.uk/files/34486018/247182.pdf

If you like it a bit more technical then there is this article

https://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/sites/default/files/Preprints/P308.pdf

For those interested in a simple explanation of bogus hull speed limit watch this video

 

Edited by Archaos
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18 hours ago, admin said:

We don't have OUR theory .. There is universal theory.
What we meant is this - If all things with the hull are being equal then the longer ship will have faster speed 
Hull speed is the maximum theoretical speed. Meaning whatever your Block coefficient is, whatever your sail power is, you wont ever exceed hull speed, because that`s how it works. 

Below that speed many other things matter. But the max possible speed for the ship is determined by its hull length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed 
Of course this is 18/19th century theory has been improved later - but we are in the 18/19th century right?

What people are complaining about that the 14th meter wide Redoutable is faster than another 14 meter wide, shorter ship. And they both correct and are incorrect too, as until we have variable wind and ability to set sails individually and until the safety is removed (ability to capsize your ship with too much sails), we will always have these discussions. But everybody know that if we remove safety (ships start to capsize due to too much sail) we will remove many players too (sea legends will have proper model in this regard)

Let's keep this conversation on earth shall we😉

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On 5/22/2020 at 10:29 AM, admin said:

We don't have OUR theory .. There is universal theory.
What we meant is this - If all things with the hull are being equal then the longer ship will have faster speed 
Hull speed is the maximum theoretical speed. Meaning whatever your Block coefficient is, whatever your sail power is, you wont ever exceed hull speed, because that`s how it works. 

Below that speed many other things matter. But the max possible speed for the ship is determined by its hull length https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_speed 
Of course this is 18/19th century theory has been improved later - but we are in the 18/19th century right?

What people are complaining about that the 14th meter wide Redoutable is faster than another 14 meter wide, shorter ship. And they both correct and are incorrect too, as until we have variable wind and ability to set sails individually and until the safety is removed (ability to capsize your ship with too much sails), we will always have these discussions. But everybody know that if we remove safety (ships start to capsize due to too much sail) we will remove many players too (sea legends will have proper model in this regard)

I appreciate your effort to clarify your thoughts.  It's interesting and thoughful.

Too bad that many of the children in game seem to think that you are talking-down to them when you use words with more than one syllable.   Perhaps if we removed players by creating proper models, their absence would attract intellegent ones.

 

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