Maybe time change snow BR?

[Stilgar]

If I remember well there was an idea (by dev team I think) to introduce different wind strength in battle instances. The theory was that harder wind would put small ships in disadvantage: sailing and gunnery would be more challenging. Anyway, if there is a way to properly simulate impact of rough(er) whether on control of smaller ships, that would certainly put (very) small ships to their place.

 

 

[Kejsaren]

On 5/6/2020 at 2:40 PM, Capitalism said:

 Don’t let your own inability to learn how to deal with a small ship on your stern result in you asking for something that will ultimately hurt the game again. 

Hurt game for who again?...

What if we just raise the br?, will be hurt still?

 

P.s

Nice to see "get gud" argument still a thing🤣

Edited May 7, 2020 by Emperor Ming

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

14 hours ago, Emperor Ming said:

Hurt game for who again?...

What if we just raise the br?, will be hurt still?

 

P.s

Nice to see "get gud" argument still a thing🤣

that is why i would love to see the BR determined by the ship-setting. an elite-upgrade could easily raise the br about 20%. and then "get gud" is finally a thing

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

but the snow all can do is stern camp...... if u cant stern camp something, you will lose. well maybe win against trade brig but thats about it

 

and if u nerf snow, people go niagara. then what? adjust niagara.

 

ok.people go prince. what next?

 

hercules? 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

45 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

that is why i would love to see the BR determined by the ship-setting. an elite-upgrade could easily raise the br about 20%. and then "get gud" is finally a thing

nonsense

 

how u calculate? how you judge?

 

fir/fir does 16knots has NMC

teak/wo does 14knots has NMC

 

both raise br by same? or are you say both ships are set for same job?? cause they are not! they are different ships, but both deadly in their own intended setting. 

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

19 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

nonsense

 

how u calculate? how you judge?

 

fir/fir does 16knots has NMC

teak/wo does 14knots has NMC

 

both raise br by same? or are you say both ships are set for same job?? cause they are not! they are different ships, but both deadly in their own intended setting. 

don´t be too lazy to think man. proper rating-values won´t be found in only 5 minutes! furthermore it is about upgrades, not standard wood-types. with the rules-of-engagement we got id love to hear one good reason why a trincomalee fir/fir no upgrades has the same br like a trinc fir(s)/fir(s) with navy-hull, navy-planking and guacata-gunpowder e.g. ?

[Lukas97Austria]

43 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

but the snow all can do is stern camp...... if u cant stern camp something, you will lose. well maybe win against trade brig but thats about it

 

and if u nerf snow, people go niagara. then what? adjust niagara.

 

ok.people go prince. what next?

 

hercules? 

How about a small vessel shouldn't be able to kill an bigger ship so easy how it is now? No? Anyone? 

[Lukas97Austria]

On 5/6/2020 at 2:40 PM, Capitalism said:

lol oh noes! People complaining about getting stern camped resulted in the last time we got a complete rework of the damage model.  And for those of you who haven’t been playing long enough, or choose to be ignorant, this resulted in the near disappearance of lower rated ships on the OW, even in the shallows, because bigger guns always won.

This then resulted in 5th rates in shallows just to get people back into that part of the map... Don’t let your own inability to learn how to deal with a small ship on your stern result in you asking for something that will ultimately hurt the game again. 

And that's why we allowed broken ships in an Br area where new players try there first steps? Wow... Really wow. 

Also if people sail the snow because they like it. They will sail it in the shallows. Otherwise they just use a mechanic to get "easy" kills. Just saying.  And that has nothing to do with ignorant or else. It's just a fact. Show other games. Things that are easy or gives you an advantage over others. 

 

But speaking about having no one sailing it etc I question myself. Why do we have than shallow waters? Why do we have shallow rvr battles and probably screening. Also not to mention the PZ zone. Even if we would make the snow not capable of easy destroying a vessel 4th rate or above. Doesn't meant it will die and nobody plays it 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Lukas97Austria

[Kejsaren]

23 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

but the snow all can do is stern camp...... if u cant stern camp something, you will lose. well maybe win against trade brig but thats about it

With br 60 what do you want it to do against bigger ships?, be able to go hull to hull?. Against big ships yes, all it can do it stern camp, that's the same with all small ships vs big ones, no?, and it does it EXTREMELY well. Snow-lovers claim that easy to deal with sterncampers, yet you claim it's all you can do in it. Most ships have to 2 aft guns, a couple of rakes from snow (extremely easy to perform) and chances are you have 1-0 guns left = crippled, GG. 

1 hour ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

and if u nerf snow, people go niagara. then what? adjust niagara.

 

ok.people go prince. what next?

Snow is spaceship, it's unique thus not comparable with other ships.

There is a reason snow is extremely popular right now and it's not because it's DLC.

[Urchin]

I've placed Snows in the same category as Requins now,  troll ships not worthy of battle. 

Ironic that the two ships which never actually sailed in the Caribbean are both ridiculous beyond measure for their own reasons. 

[Lukas97Austria]

1 minute ago, Urchin said:

I've placed Snows in the same category as Requins now,  troll ships not worthy of battle. 

Ironic that the two ships which never actually sailed in the Caribbean are both ridiculous beyond measure for their own reasons. 

Not to mention that the snow and requin players mostly are toxic in chat or being very provocant if someone trys to leave. 

[JDMonster]

On 5/6/2020 at 5:40 AM, Capitalism said:

lol oh noes! People complaining about getting stern camped resulted in the last time we got a complete rework of the damage model.  And for those of you who haven’t been playing long enough, or choose to be ignorant, this resulted in the near disappearance of lower rated ships on the OW, even in the shallows, because bigger guns always won.

This then resulted in 5th rates in shallows just to get people back into that part of the map... Don’t let your own inability to learn how to deal with a small ship on your stern result in you asking for something that will ultimately hurt the game again. 

I'm not complaining about stern camping in general.  Raking and smart positioning is an important part of the game and should be rewarded.  My main complaint about the snow is that a Semi  competent captain can stern camp with impunity in it.  Mistakes made by the Snow Captain can't be punished because they are so maneuverable and quick that the captain can easily just reverse their way out or just turn to avoid/kite a broadside.  Stern camping in general doesn't need a nerf.  The Snow does.

[DDZ_Vasduten]

Just give the Snow 24p Carros as maximum, or 6p longs. Problem solved. 

If stern camping in them becomes more of a select skill set, I'm all for it... currently, any jerk with a fast snow can demolish just about anything with not a lot of chance of being demasted.

 

Two 68p Carros are barely an inconvenience if you know how to lead and then turn again as they fire. I've said it... it needs to be brought back to something resembling a 60BR and not be as deadly as a Hercules.

[DDZ_Vasduten]

On 5/8/2020 at 1:37 AM, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

but the snow all can do is stern camp...... if u cant stern camp something, you will lose. well maybe win against trade brig but thats about it

 

and if u nerf snow, people go niagara. then what? adjust niagara.

 

ok.people go prince. what next?

 

hercules? 

The reality at hand will tell you all you need to know regarding your assumption here.

 

There are not nearly as many comically fast Niagaras or Princes as there are Snows.

The Prince has smaller guns... the Niagara isn't as tough and doesn't turn as fast as a Snow. The Hercules is a 5th rate anyway... and it's STILL not as deadly as a Snow.

 

Why are there so many people out in fast Snows and not Niagaras???

 

I'll tell you: It's because the Snow should have a BR of 80-100 with those 32p Carros... or have 24p Carros be the max it can carry.

They're cheap to make, easy to use and have too much gunnery on board. They are totally OP.

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, DDZ_Vasduten said:

Why are there so many people out in fast Snows and not Niagaras???

Permit ?

[Beeekonda]

Just now, DDZ_Vasduten said:

 

 

I'll tell you: It's because the Snow should have a BR of 80-100 with those 32p Carros... or have 24p Carros be the max it can carry.

They're cheap to make, easy to use and have too much gunnery on board. They are totally OP.

Quote

yes please, i need BR to tag redoutable

Literally solves nothing, but adds more aids

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:21 AM, Lukas97Austria said:

How about a small vessel shouldn't be able to kill an bigger ship so easy how it is now? No? Anyone? 

funny, historically they did all the time. 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

3 minutes ago, DDZ_Vasduten said:

The reality at hand will tell you all you need to know regarding your assumption here.

 

There are not nearly as many comically fast Niagaras or Princes as there are Snows.

The Prince has smaller guns... the Niagara isn't as tough and doesn't turn as fast as a Snow. The Hercules is a 5th rate anyway... and it's STILL not as deadly as a Snow.

 

Why are there so many people out in fast Snows and not Niagaras???

 

I'll tell you: It's because the Snow should have a BR of 80-100 with those 32p Carros... or have 24p Carros be the max it can carry.

They're cheap to make, easy to use and have too much gunnery on board. They are totally OP.

 

niagara has more firepower than snow and is harder to hit as it is much lower to water

 

niagara however is clunky in that it is too long. connecting all your cannons is much harder on a niagara than on a snow. 

 

if u have problems dealing with snow, then not sure what to tell you. 

 

the prince suffers downwind, which is why its not a good all around choice

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

On 5/8/2020 at 2:05 AM, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

don´t be too lazy to think man. proper rating-values won´t be found in only 5 minutes! furthermore it is about upgrades, not standard wood-types. with the rules-of-engagement we got id love to hear one good reason why a trincomalee fir/fir no upgrades has the same br like a trinc fir(s)/fir(s) with navy-hull, navy-planking and guacata-gunpowder e.g. ?

i see. you just want to know what on enemy ship. 

 

no. thats not how this works. 

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

1 hour ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

i see. you just want to know what on enemy ship. 

 

no. thats not how this works. 

bollocks. i don´t care what you have on your ship. it´s just utter rubbish to have rules of engagement that base on br-values while at the same time the br is equal on trash- and super-ships. i get the feeling you´re afraid to lose the biggest advantage you can have in this game: top gear without any downside or penalty. and please: no one call out "but it´s skill" now. the game basically has only veterans. more or less skilled and experienced.

[erelkivtuadrater]

well, what can we say? @admin made it possible to let ships that were able to fit cannons in their gunports could do it 🤷‍♂️ #whereismyfull68pdcarronade1strate. Its ridiculous that no penalties are given or even some kind of dynamic BR (which is on a high note that should be added considering different outfits and stats in woodtypes).

[Urchin]

I have the answer!  Dam Guacata. 

Turn it into a lake, add a port for every nation and Snows can just battle it out in their historic setting. 

Genius. 

[DeRuyter]

On 5/17/2020 at 1:35 PM, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

funny, historically they did all the time. 

Do you have examples of this in a straight up battle? 

I am curious because small unrated ships the size of a Snow would generally not engage larger ships. If they did the weight of metal would mostly decide the battle not maneuver unless the smaller ship was very lucky. Yes there are rare instances like Speedy vs. Gamo which was trickery and a boarding action mostly. 

 

The problem with the Snow is the change to allow 32lb carros. The HMS Ontario was armed with 6 lb guns and 4 lb guns period. For game play they original choice of 18 lb carros was a good compromise. The Snow is too small for a whole broadside battery of 32 lb carros. 

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=5617

 

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

15 hours ago, DeRuyter said:

Do you have examples of this in a straight up battle? 

I am curious because small unrated ships the size of a Snow would generally not engage larger ships. If they did the weight of metal would mostly decide the battle not maneuver unless the smaller ship was very lucky. Yes there are rare instances like Speedy vs. Gamo which was trickery and a boarding action mostly. 

 

The problem with the Snow is the change to allow 32lb carros. The HMS Ontario was armed with 6 lb guns and 4 lb guns period. For game play they original choice of 18 lb carros was a good compromise. The Snow is too small for a whole broadside battery of 32 lb carros. 

https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=5617

 

What is the argument here? most if not all ships in this game are upgunned.

 

the 32p caro change was explained that admin somehow measured the gun ports of the ontario and determined they can fit. take it with him. but i doubt you will get anywhere

 

small ships took bigger ships in variety of ways. this game only allows for one actual way; straight up brawl. nothing  else is modeled in. so use your imagination!

[Urchin]

The reason small ships in this game can so easily stern camp and defeat larger ships is because there is no musket fire modeled during battle.  The Snow was always a very good ship and too easily able to stern camp and defeat larger ships. Now it's a worse joke than even the Requin ever was, at least that ship could just be ignored by sailing downwind.