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1 hour ago, Liq said:

So when I tag someone and he proceeds to run away, I can only shoot my bow chasers but would catch him eventually, he would get away because Im literally unable to damage him in time?

Yes Liq
Get a control perk. If "catch him eventually" means in 40 mins - I said NO to this mechanic.

No more time wasting. Thanks devs, you are awesome devs.

 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Yes Liq
Get a control perk. If "catch him eventually" means in 40 mins - I said NO to this mechanic.

No more time wasting. Thanks devs, you are awesome devs.

 

Then make tag circles smaller so we start closer...

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Just now, ashley said:

Then make tag circles smaller so we start closer...

good idea

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7 hours ago, admin said:

We are now also reworking EXIT TIMER which will depend on damage per last minute to avoid people from keeping large ships in battle by single shots. I cant believe it took so long to realise this. To keep a person in battle you will have to deliver good amount of damage otherwise this battle is over.

What will happen then to the epic chases?

When my ship is a little bit faster (maybe 0.4kn faster), and I'm slowly clawing my way up to him. Will he escape from battle and then magically speedboost away from me in open world?

I hate kiting/trolling as much as anyone else. But I also liked those long chases. Not the ones that end up being tagged over and over and over again until one side gets enough people amassed to sink the ship, that is no fun, and that is why re-tag timers should increase after battles, to allow the escaped ship more time to gain distance in OW. 

 

Maybe consider changing it to be auto-control perk to 1200m. Then if the ship is outside that range for 2 minutes and takes no meaningful damage, it can escape. That gives the opportunity for proper chases but also eliminates sail-tagging at max range to waste time.

 

Historically, chases could go on for days or more when one frigate was running from another frigate. Captain skill, precise trimming of the sails, and careful maneuvering won the day. Don't take those long chases away from the game please.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, admin said:

This waste of other people's time is not content

We are now also reworking EXIT TIMER which will depend on damage per last minute to avoid people from keeping large ships in battle by single shots. I cant believe it took so long to realise this. To keep a person in battle you will have to deliver good amount of damage otherwise this battle is over.

 See. thanks for bad people behaviour the game is getting better.. Slow but steady.

Let me say, Thank you! god the 1 hour chasing game was booooordem.

5 hours ago, admin said:

You should read the patchnotes information first - it said - hostility time will be unified and slowed down. All ports will take similar time despite player numbers. Having numbers will just allow defenders or attackers to stop it from happening. There will be no more insta hostility flips.

@admin

Does this imply that shallow and deep water will take the same time to do hostility? I feel like this would make shallow water hostility immensely more difficult. Will Hostility have to be done with the biggest/best ships? Or will it not matter no matter what ship you're in?

 

I'm worried with no screening anymore... I need to see how Hostility is going to work to consider how this "new screening" is going to interact. Eh.

Edited by Teutonic

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1 hour ago, Capitalism said:

 

I'd think that distance-based control-for-all would make far, far more sense and be so much easier to implement and understand for all players.

This idea relies too much in faith in human ethical behaviour (faith which we no longer have). You can abuse control by keeping the player (for example a player without guns) in battle. 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

This idea relies too much in faith in human ethical behaviour (which we no longer have). You can abuse control by keeping the player (for example a player without guns) in battle. 

But you just recommended yourself that we take control perk to accomplish this exact scenario? I'm confused now about the intent of the mechanic...

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, admin said:

This idea relies too much in faith in human ethical behaviour (which we no longer have). You can abuse control by keeping the player (for example a player without guns) in battle. 

If you put control perk to a reasonable range, then kiting is not possible. If you force a player to be within ~1000m or a little more, then he is vulnerable to taking damage, or to being forced to fight when the wind shifts. 

Make the tag circles smaller so ships spawn closer together. Implement long-range auto control to 1000-1200m. Trolling will be reduced.

Edited by William Death

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

This idea relies too much in faith in human ethical behaviour (which we no longer have). You can abuse control by keeping the player (for example a player without guns) in battle. 

This issue here is the genius that leaves port without guns not the player tagging him/her.

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23 minutes ago, Capitalism said:

But you just recommended yourself that we take control perk to accomplish this exact scenario? I'm confused now about the intent of the mechanic...

Keeping a player in battle must depend on active action. Control perk is just for ships without chasers - it might play out differently but we definitely not going to increase the range (only reduce it). From next patch player will have to actively damage the opponent to keep him in battle.

Current 750m implementation is long enough, but might get shortened.
 

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Each time some serious change happens (or before, by mere announcement), we can see the forum cry "game is ruined/we are all doomed!" - and after implementation, give it a month or so, everybody is silent(ly enjoying the game) and the forum returns to trash topics like "Russia so bored they.." . Really. It happens each time, this outcry. With every major update.

Just let it happen and after you got accustomed to it, come back to forum and we will see if you are still complaining or again, silent(ly enjoying the game)... :) If not, the arguments brought should find special attention because they will, in contrary to whining now, have substance. Substance of experience with the change. Not just imagination how everything is going to be ruined, for the thousandth time.

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7 hours ago, admin said:

This waste of other people's time is not content

We are now also reworking EXIT TIMER which will depend on damage per last minute to avoid people from keeping large ships in battle by single shots. I cant believe it took so long to realise this. To keep a person in battle you will have to deliver good amount of damage otherwise this battle is over.

 See. thanks for bad people behaviour the game is getting better.. Slow but steady.

I would submit that the change in exit timers ALL BY ITSELF would solve the griefing problem...and allow you to keep the screening fleets.  I do not enjoy Port Battles. I enjoy screening fleet actions. It is a major source of my game enjoyment. Screenng fleets also represent training opportunities for noobs as they ascend in levels. Who welcomes noobs into Port Battles? Removing screening fleets, in favor of porting into PBs, will diminish the game for most of us A LOT....

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Just now, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Each time some serious change happens (or before, by mere announcement), we can see the forum cry "game is ruined/we are all doomed!" - and after implementation, give it a month or so, everybody is silent(ly enjoying the game) and the forum returns to trash topics like "Russia so bored they.." . Really. It happens each time, this outcry. With every major update.

I still really dislike the "new" damage model. I dislike the insane bonuses available from wood/mod/book stacking. I loathe multiple repairs. 

All of this promotes low-skill gameplay. I spoke out about it when it was released. I spoke out about it until maybe a few months ago when I read a post from admin that said he'd be ignoring further complaints about those things and not making major changes there. There's no point in voicing complaints when it is stated that the changes you want to happen aren't going to happen.

I still maintain that 2016/2017 NA had the most emphasis on skill, and provided me with the most fun battles. I'd gladly buy a DLC version of that game again ;).

I know a number of other players who feel the same way. Rest assured our complaints haven't gone silent out of enjoyment of the new mechanics. They've gone silent because we got tired of arguing for a lost cause.

 

Removing chases from the game (effectively what will happen when you force damage to be done to keep someone in battle) won't ruin the game. 

It'll just remove another layer of skill and depth of combat from the game. Why bother understanding the advantages of positioning, tacking early, and pulling away to repair when you have to sail in close and spam broadsides to keep your enemy from disappearing from battle? Less skill.

Why bother learning the tactics of spreading damage around when you get to press 5-1 every 12 minutes and regenerate half your ship's health? Less skill.

 

The game isn't going to be ruined by this patch. But it will not be as fun, or as skill-based, if these changes are made.

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repairs are skill

 

you have to manage when you press them and how many you bring. do you load your ship to the brim with repairs? you sound like thats what people do.. and if they do, do you think it helps them or hurts them?

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Posted (edited)

2 really good changes to stop griefing and braindead zergs with no skill and trash ships, while also moving the activity of screening to basically stopping PBs. Which means setting up a PB has more action and is less boring.

 

I still miss post battle screen to logout after a fight and less grind overall, although Im not sure if its too late for these changes for NA1.

Edited by Corona Lisa

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Posted (edited)

Can you improve Chat and compass art look? @admin Everything looks nice, but chat and compass are from another space game. 

Edited by Audacious
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22 minutes ago, William Death said:

I still maintain that 2016/2017 NA had the most emphasis on skill, and provided me with the most fun battles. I'd gladly buy a DLC version of that game again ;).

Interesting idea, maybe devs like it? Publish a "nostalgia edition" of NA (alongside the actual versions with the coming economy edition), with a dedicated server of its own, with all rules which were according to your post so popular then? (was before my time, so I can't further comment) I know from other games they issue early versions of their game, maybe just as bonus (like Keen did with their Space Engineers) to early access customers. Don't know if people actually use them, maybe they are only meant to showcase the advancements the product made in the meantime.

22 minutes ago, William Death said:

The game isn't going to be ruined by this patch. But it will not be as fun, or as skill-based, if these changes are made.

I should add I also did take part in screening fleets in my days when I still was on PvP War Server. And yes, they were fun. But I read here main reason for abolishing screens is the massive abuse by players, by delaying tactics, so we can congratulate them to making it necessary. Like many times before. Alts, exploits, toxicity - always something becomes critical to game fun which actually could be avoided if everyone would be gentlemen and avoid the dark side of things, aka abuse. But of course they are human. And humans exploit situations all the time when they see a benefit. This went into tribunal here a number of times and devs got tired of handling them. Only way to prevent trouble is killing the source of trouble, as with appeals to fairness it seems nothing can be reached.

There are things which look different, fairness-wise, like the remarkable consent nations found on PvE server in their discord, but I am adult enough not to expect such thing could work for the PvP family, without measures behind, to enforce them. Or just clean cuts. Like now is done by deleting screens.

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21 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

repairs are skill

 

you have to manage when you press them and how many you bring. do you load your ship to the brim with repairs? you sound like thats what people do.. and if they do, do you think it helps them or hurts them?

Can't tell if trolling, or real question. 🤔

I'll answer as if it was a real question. (Even though its a bit off topic).

"Manage when you press them"

-You "press them" as often as you can. If you're damaged and your repair is not active or on cooldown, and you have more fighting left to do in that battle, you are wasting repair opportunities. 

"do you load your ship to the brim with repairs?"

-Yes I do. As does anyone else with a decent understanding how battles go in this game. Minimum 4x uses of each repair. I usually carry far more than that, and delete a stack if I need to have a bit more speed. People who carry less tend to be the same people who complain about multiple battles causing them to run out of repairs. I've never run out of repairs except when I take a ship to the patrol zone. Taking lots of repairs with me hasn't hurt me yet, only helped.

Repairs are not skill. The only "skill" argument you can make regarding them is in regards to deciding whether to do a rig or hull repair if you're in a battle where you're taking damage in both areas. That part is skill. But you no longer have to apply skill to prevent taking damage as much because you get infinite repairs. Its forgiving. It doesn't emphasize real battle skill and tactics.
Compare that to when you only got one of each, you were very careful that when you traded your HP away,  you got something worthwhile in return. If I gave away 1/4 of my side HP to the enemy, knowing I couldn't get it back; then I made sure I took 250 crew or 30% sails that he wasn't getting back in exchange.

 

Back on topic again: 

Trolling bad, chasing a ship to a meaningful end is good. How do we get rid of the first, without getting rid of the second? Constant damage done doesn't seem like the right way to do that. It just seems like yet another mechanic that will shave away a bit more skill from the game. Just like unlimited repairs did.

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13 minutes ago, William Death said:

Can't tell if trolling, or real question. 🤔

I'll answer as if it was a real question. (Even though its a bit off topic).

"Manage when you press them"

-You "press them" as often as you can. If you're damaged and your repair is not active or on cooldown, and you have more fighting left to do in that battle, you are wasting repair opportunities. 

"do you load your ship to the brim with repairs?"

-Yes I do. As does anyone else with a decent understanding how battles go in this game. Minimum 4x uses of each repair. I usually carry far more than that, and delete a stack if I need to have a bit more speed. People who carry less tend to be the same people who complain about multiple battles causing them to run out of repairs. I've never run out of repairs except when I take a ship to the patrol zone. Taking lots of repairs with me hasn't hurt me yet, only helped.

Repairs are not skill. The only "skill" argument you can make regarding them is in regards to deciding whether to do a rig or hull repair if you're in a battle where you're taking damage in both areas. That part is skill. But you no longer have to apply skill to prevent taking damage as much because you get infinite repairs. Its forgiving. It doesn't emphasize real battle skill and tactics.
Compare that to when you only got one of each, you were very careful that when you traded your HP away,  you got something worthwhile in return. If I gave away 1/4 of my side HP to the enemy, knowing I couldn't get it back; then I made sure I took 250 crew or 30% sails that he wasn't getting back in exchange.

 

Back on topic again: 

Trolling bad, chasing a ship to a meaningful end is good. How do we get rid of the first, without getting rid of the second? Constant damage done doesn't seem like the right way to do that. It just seems like yet another mechanic that will shave away a bit more skill from the game. Just like unlimited repairs did.

pressing them when cooldown is over is stupid and u know better.  you want to time it so you shaft your opponent.  do u rep sails when at 95% because you can? 

 

 so you overload on reps like a noob and complain about that feature. logical 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Yes Liq
Get a control perk. If "catch him eventually" means in 40 mins - I said NO to this mechanic.

No more time wasting. Thanks devs, you are awesome devs.

 

Several dutchies I know are quite pissed by the fate of De Ruyter ship.

They can't say "thanks devs, you are awesome devs" after denying them crafting their ship.

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8 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

pressing them when cooldown is over is stupid and u know better.  you want to time it so you shaft your opponent.  do u rep sails when at 95% because you can? 

When did I say repair at 95%? 

I said repair when you get damaged. 95% is not truly damaged. Don't be obtuse.

9 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

so you overload on reps like a noob and complain about that feature. logical

Again, what?

How is it "overloading like a noob," if I don't struggle with speed (the only stat affected by carrying more repairs)?

I complain about the feature because it promotes unskilled gameplay and allows for unrealistic battles.

In fact, given the repair meta, I'd argue the only "noob" here, is the one who artificially limits himself to only repairing a few times in a battle out of some attempt to "play the game properly" by carrying only a few repairs and using them sparingly. 

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8 minutes ago, William Death said:

When did I say repair at 95%? 

I said repair when you get damaged. 95% is not truly damaged. Don't be obtuse.

Again, what?

How is it "overloading like a noob," if I don't struggle with speed (the only stat affected by carrying more repairs)?

I complain about the feature because it promotes unskilled gameplay and allows for unrealistic battles.

In fact, given the repair meta, I'd argue the only "noob" here, is the one who artificially limits himself to only repairing a few times in a battle out of some attempt to "play the game properly" by carrying only a few repairs and using them sparingly. 

You can carry as many repairs with you as you want and use them in battle as game mechanics allow it.

Imo the game would be much better with none or only one repair and without mods.

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ok a longer tagging time is needed then, so if you actually are faster someone cant defensive tag you so you are too far away to keep them tagged in battle.

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When thinking about the changes and especially how RvR works, I ask myself what kind of playstyle this game is made for.

It is clear, that every player here in the forum, tries to convince the devs to change the game somehow to support his own style.

It is difficult to make a game that is fun for new and veteran players at the same time and, due to the limited map we have, balances strong and big vs small nations. Imo the new hostility model bears a chance to do so.

The effort to create hostility should depend on the number of ports a nation owns. A small nation with only 2 ports should be able to nearly insta-flipp a port, while a large nation, owning a third of all ports should have to work on hostility a few days.

@admin, I hope you will at least think about this proposal.

 

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1 hour ago, Montagnes said:

Several dutchies I know are quite pissed by the fate of De Ruyter ship.

They can't say "thanks devs, you are awesome devs" after denying them crafting their ship.

Quick reminder to Dutch fans. They should say thanks devs in reviews if they like something. Even if some dutch content was planned or was just tested during event. Because then we might add more of it.

If they stay silent they give the reviews to be ruled by vocal haters who just circle jerk each other. Positive reviews always get less likes, while haters group up always favoriting negative sentiment. We did not see positive spike in reviews after we added Implacable as crafted and tested De Ruyter in event. We consider that nobody cared for crafted ships anymore. 

As this is business and teams shift to popular projects from unpopular projects NA team gets developers based on the reviews. To plan ahead I need to see how much resources i will have available and will have to consider hiding some content behind events. Here is how it works : Higher reviews - more developers, lower reviews - less developers (including dutch ship creators). So dutch players can make an effort to encourage artists by actually 1) saying thank you in reviews or 2) saying they are pissed off in reviews.

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