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Upgrades weight


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After todays update my sloops were at thier maximum capacity of weight and my Cerberus class frigate was overloaded.

This was the case with the following settings: All those ships had Copper Sheathing 1 and Light Gun Carriages upgradewise, standard Armstrong canons and optimal crew seize.

Imo that shouldn‘t be, because these upgrades seem very basic to me and one is even targeting the reduction of weight!

If Light Gun Carriages doesn’t effect the guns weight enough to be able to put an additional copper sheathing on the ships hull it seems a very poor upgrade to me.

Thus I assume it is a bug!?

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7 hours ago, Malkor said:

Have you tried using other cannons than the Armstrongs?

Yes I have, but usually other basic ones.

Because of the drastic weight changes and your suggestions I‘ve begun to invest in and test other technologies / canons though.

Re-equipping my American and British fleets will be quite expansive it seems!

Edited by Navalus Magnus
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Tell me about it. Like i said in the thread about captured 3rd and 2nd rate ships, equipping those costs you lots of money. Here are some cannons i like to use not just because of their damage but also penetration values: You can use normal carronades for small ships like Briggs and Sloops or you can use the 4pdr/6pdr Woolwich. In fact, the Woolwich guns are some of the first i research in the british campaign. For frigates i like to use the Congreves. They allow you to put a higher caliber of cannons on your ships and they don't have a high weight. High damage, fast reload, less weight and the only downside is the range of 950 yards but on a frigate that's not too bad. The Congreves are in the second tech branch for the british campaign but in the last branch for the US campaign. Which makes it very hard to get those but at the same time it is very important because otherwise you will still be using 12pdr when you're about to do the Battle at Yarmouth where the first SOL shows up. I cannot stress enough how important it is to get the Congreves in both campaigns but especially in the US campaign, where that tech unlocks all 18pdr, 24pdr and 32pdr cannons. 

For my SOL it depends on ship, the cannons that are available, how much money i have and the campaign i am playing. In the US campaign 32pdr are the biggest cannons you can buy. So i always like to use the 32pdr French Re-bored. They go on all SOL, no matter what. When i run out of those it comes down to cost and weight. You can either choose the 32pdr Woolwich or 32pdr Borgard Long. The last one has the same range and penetration values as the French Re-bored but a slower rate of fire and more weight.  For the british you could go with 42pdr but i think that would be way too expensive especially on normal and hard difficulty. Even on easy i would advise against it unless you really can afford it.

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On 4/9/2020 at 6:07 AM, Malkor said:

The Congreves are in the second tech branch for the british campaign but in the last branch for the US campaign. Which makes it very hard to get those but at the same time it is very important because otherwise you will still be using 12pdr when you're about to do the Battle at Yarmouth where the first SOL shows up.

Upper deck: 6pdr long (Desagulliers).
Lower deck: 18pdr Brass (Woolwhich)

6th rates get 9pdr longs. Those gun's penetration is no joke, and the range is very helpful at the time of taking rake shots on bigger ships while keeping a reasonable security range.

With second tier of carriages you get more than enough weight for a couple good upgrades (I usually go with copper hull and reload) and a good number on sailors on almost all 5th rates. A handful of those alongside your 6th rates is far more than enough to blast the rear end of that 3rd rate until it's boardable. You don't need congreves. In fact you don't need anything bigger than a 18pdr until you start getting Razeés and SOLs.
 

Edited by RAMJB
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Yes and no. You wrote that all you need is 18pdr until you get a 4th or 3rd rate ship. And i said that in the US campaign the only way to get those is by unlocking Industry 3. My point being: it is very hard to get those 18pdr unlocked in the first place, not to mention that the initial stockpile in the shop might just be enough to equip one ship. So you have to look at the Congreves too because if you don't, you don't stand much of a chance against a 3rd rate with your 5th and 6th rates.

And a ship that can use 18pdr Woolwich can also use 24pdr Congreves. More damage, better rate of fire, better penetration and less weight. The only two points against the Congreves are the higher price and the range of 950 yards. But losing 200 yards of range shouldn't be that big of a deal with 5th rates. If you were to use 18pdr Congreves instead of the 18pdr Woolwich you would get the same damage, same penetration, even more weight reduction (which allows for a bigger crew or even 9/12pdr on the first deck, more upgrades) and an even better rate of fire than with the 24pdr Congreves. 

I think you should go with the cannons that give you more damage coupled with good penetration. There are situations in which penetration values are more important than the damage but this is what the Desagulier and Borgard's Long cannons are there for. If you can't afford Congreves than go with Woolwich cannons but if you have the money than why not use the Congreves? And the higher rate of fire compared to lighter caliber cannons (like the 18pdr Woolwich) and the same caliber cannons (like the 24pdr Woolwich) is just icing on the cake. And let's not forget that all those cannons will be unlocked with Industry 3 in the US campaign. In the british campaign you will have access to the 12pdr Woolwich cannons right from the start if you research them. But everything higher than that, as far as the Woolwich go, only comes after researching Brass Large Guns in the last part of the techtree. The Congreves can be researched and used long before you unlock 18, 24, 32 and 42pdr Woolwich cannons. And let's just agree that the 18pdr Armstrong isn't even a viable option to begin with. 

So with the way the techtree currently is and how long it will take you to unlock the 18pdr Woolwich you might as well just use the Congreves. In the US campaign you will have access to the Woolwich and the Congreves after unlocking Industry 3 and in the british campaign you will get the Congreves long before you get the 18pdr Woolwich. What weapons are available plays a big role in which weapons you end up using. And my last point is when you're fighting a SOL you want as much damage and penetration as you can get. And the 24pdr Congreves gives you just that when compared to the 18pdr Woolwich. Like i said: if a ship can fit 18pdr Woolwich then it can also fit in the 24pdr Congreves. If it can fit 12pdr Woolwich, you can use 18pdr Congreves. Why not use a cannon of a higher caliber with more damage, better penetration, better rate of fire and less or the same weight? 

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On 4/15/2020 at 2:45 PM, Malkor said:

Yes and no. You wrote that all you need is 18pdr until you get a 4th or 3rd rate ship.

My 18pdr standard is for for lategame (last couple american independence chapters).

By midgame (anytime before that) 12pdrs are plenty powerful to get things done with no big sweat, giving you plenty of time to access Industry 3. I personally never found myself feeling I needed them sooner.
 

As for not standing a chance against a 3rd rate with 12 pdrs alone....even 9pdr desaguliers do a number on them if hitting those things from the rear. Which should be your focus, pin the rate (wishfully pointed upwind) with your biggest strongest frigate firing canister to his decks from his broadside(and have some other ship ready to jump in when it has to pull out, which it probably will at some point), and have another guy parked behind rear ending him 24/7. You can even use the guy "Pinning" it to shoot at it's foremast - if it goes down the rate is going to be like a dead brick on the water. If it doesn't (and with 12pdr you need several hits so a bit of luck), nothing big lost because what's really hurting him is the raking fire that comes from the rear.

Big lineship or not, nothing stands well against a sustained barrage of rear end roundshot fire because crew casualties just skyrocket in no time (and then it's time to board). I've had 6th rates doing absolute massacres to those ships using long 9pdr guns. 5th rates with 12pdrs do even better, so obviously do 18pdr when they're available.

Incidentally the large range of the long guns is a blessing for that scenario. The longer the range, the more time you can pound dat ass before it moves out of range. I'd rather take the 200 extra yards of the 18pdr range than the hitting power of the 24 pdrs. That's a lot of extra flexibility, a lot of extra ships potentially being in range to pound that ass whenever it's faced their way. 
I let the razees and lineships do the heavy pounding - the standard frigates I use for flanking, rear ending and long range support, and for that, extra range beats anything else.

If your plan to fight the 3rd rate is to assault it from the board at close range then yes, of course, you'll need those congreves. But I strongly object to any battle plan that involves sustained broadside fights with frigates against a 3rd rate. The key to win those engagements is maneouver and pounding him from the ass. And for that you need range.

Edited by RAMJB
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