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Stern camping in this game is ridiculous.it isn't enjoyable, it isn't historical, and it is a borderline exploit of  poorly coded battle mechanics. @admin , it needs to be fixed. At least go back to the days where you couldn't damage more than 50% of the center structure by stern or bow shots. That at least forced people to actually fight.

Edited by GrubbyZebra
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Who did put this into your head. Read your willis Ships could sail forwards backwards and sideways and were really nimble. https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf

Please point on the doll where the bad snow touched you. In all seriousness, sometimes realism does not make for good gameplay. If someone was skilled enough to sterncamp you, and you weren't capab

I don't see any need to fix this.. if not going back to old carro setup for little ships such as Snow or Privateer.. they have same BR that they had when they had half firepower and of course a medium

Please point on the doll where the bad snow touched you.

In all seriousness, sometimes realism does not make for good gameplay. If someone was skilled enough to sterncamp you, and you weren't capable enough to counter it, IMO you deserve to be sunk. I'm sorry, but poor play should not be rewarded just because you are in a big ship. This change would only make the winner of the battle almost always the one in the bigger ship.

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Hmm, stern camping as it was introduced to the game was for my personal meaning the wrong way. sure it is historical but you must see this in another way. here in game you can sail with your ship forward, backward and sideways in a very unrealistic way. when you even look how the AI act in game then it makes more headache then fun.

anyway something here needs to be corrected and if it's only the physical behavior of the ship(sails) itself.  

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1 hour ago, Isaac J Smith said:

Please point on the doll where the bad snow touched you.

In all seriousness, sometimes realism does not make for good gameplay. If someone was skilled enough to sterncamp you, and you weren't capable enough to counter it, IMO you deserve to be sunk. I'm sorry, but poor play should not be rewarded just because you are in a big ship. This change would only make the winner of the battle almost always the one in the bigger ship.

You do point to the center of the issue really.

The snow is a shitty ship that shouldn't exist. It makes for both unrealistic naval warfare and unpleasent gameplay.

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5 hours ago, van stiermarken said:

 here in game you can sail with your ship forward, backward and sideways in a very unrealistic way

Who did put this into your head. Read your willis


Ships could sail forwards backwards and sideways and were really nimble.
https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf
Or look at any old or modern seamanship book showing how ships sail forward backward and sideways - for example in estuaries. 
Khreayt.jpg
 


The only difference is our ships can sail slightly closer to wind. Our sailing has found perfect balance between interesting realism without slipping into boring annoying tediousness. If they dont like it - they can go play... blackwake or motorboat ass creed. We don`t care whatever armchair critics think because based on the comments they probably have no idea. 

You are good and useful in other areas Stiermarken. Your comments put shadow and devalue your other work 

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No more changes to combat please.

Can we let the devs focus in other areas (low new player retention, open world emptiness, repetitive and lacking diversity of activities-missions, game unbalances (ships/nations))?

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Yes stern camping is OP, so devs gave ships the ability to reverse like speedboats. Biggest void is musket fire between ships during battle, then stern camping wouldn't be an issue and ships wouldn't need the arcadish sailing model to counter it. 

Yes devs seen that image and reference before, absolutely no correlation between that and sail model in game, can't see a ship the size of a Connie stopping and then sailing backwards within the same time, distance and speed as this game.

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55 minutes ago, admin said:

Who did put this into your head. Read your willis


Ships could sail forwards backwards and sideways and were really nimble.
https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf
Or look at any old or modern seamanship book showing how ships sail forward backward and sideways - for example in estuaries. 

The only difference is our ships can sail slightly closer to wind. Our sailing has found perfect balance between interesting realism without slipping into boring annoying tediousness. If they dont like it - they can go play... blackwake or motorboat ass creed. We don`t care whatever armchair critics think because based on the comments they probably have no idea. 

You are good and useful in other areas Stiermarken. Your comments put shadow and devalue your other work 

the problem i see it is that since you as a single player control everything on the ship these things are possible to pull off regarding stern camping etc. Imagine if you would try to stern camp in Sea of Thieves or Blackwake, where it requires several brains up to 20 to operate with the exact same idea at the exact same time, this problem isnt in Naval Action, but you can kind of compare it with a 1v1 battle vs 25v25 fleet battle where you usually see the ones best trained and experienced players win because they think the same while the unorganized people bump into each other all the time.

Maybe some kind of input lag would fix this? like 10-20 seconds input lag so you would have to plan further ahead and you cant instantly react if for instead e a player has decided 10 seconds before you that he is gonna depower and do  a full break? 

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
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1 hour ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

the problem i see it is that since you as a single player control everything on the ship these things are possible to pull off regarding stern camping etc. Imagine if you would try to stern camp in Sea of Thieves or Blackwake, where it requires several brains up to 20 to operate with the exact same idea at the exact same time, this problem isnt in Naval Action, but you can kind of compare it with a 1v1 battle vs 25v25 fleet battle where you usually see the ones best trained and experienced players win because they think the same while the unorganized people bump into each other all the time.

Maybe some kind of input lag would fix this? like 10-20 seconds input lag so you would have to plan further ahead and you cant instantly react if for instead e a player has decided 10 seconds before you that he is gonna depower and do  a full break? 

We know how to fix sterncamping.. there are 3 solutions. 2 of them require 1-2 months of coding.
Accel/Decel is easy - will force more planning for the camper, increasing the skill level required to properly sit on the stern.


 

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

We know how to fix sterncamping.. there are 3 solutions. 2 of them require 1-2 months of coding.
Accel/Decel is easy - will force more planning for the camper, increasing the skill level required to properly sit on the stern.


 

Is it really worth investing so much time when there are also other stuff that should be on priority list?

Edited by Montagnes
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5 minutes ago, admin said:

know how to fix sterncamping.. there are 3 solutions. 2 of them require 1-2 months of coding.
Accel/Decel is easy - will force more planning for the camper, increasing the skill level required to properly sit on the stern

I don't see any need to fix this.. if not going back to old carro setup for little ships such as Snow or Privateer.. they have same BR that they had when they had half firepower and of course a medium size ship can be camped by a lot of these damn ships (that add nothing to the game if not a bit of annoyance) without giving the defender side chance to get some reinforcements.

Snow: OP for 60 BR

Privateer: OP for 30 BR

Same with other little ships...

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2 minutes ago, Montagnes said:

Is it really worth investing so much time when there are also other stuff that should be on priority list?

well if they want to have the realism part in the game they have to fix it anyway, have you seen the similarities between the snow and a drift car? its not that different :P

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Just now, erelkivtuadrater said:

well if they want to have the realism part in the game they have to fix it anyway, have you seen the similarities between the snow and a drift car? its not that different :P

NA has already the best combat system seen in a game.

On the opposite side, it has so many things to improve and fully develop regarding key aspects of a mmo. 

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7 hours ago, van stiermarken said:

here in game you can sail with your ship forward, backward and sideways in a very unrealistic way.

The sailing part is the most realistic part of this game.

 

2 hours ago, admin said:

If they dont like it - they can go play... blackwake or motorboat ass creed. We don`t care whatever armchair critics think because based on the comments they probably have no idea. 

Really poor example you are being. Making assumptions, being really salty, like you don't want players to be to you.

 

Getting stern raked was one of the most feared by fighting captains, there are times when I think it is not dangerous enough in the game. The snow, however, is way over armed for such a small yet high profile ship.

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2 hours ago, Urchin said:

Yes stern camping is OP, so devs gave ships the ability to reverse like speedboats. Biggest void is musket fire between ships during battle, then stern camping wouldn't be an issue and ships wouldn't need the arcadish sailing model to counter it. 

Yes devs seen that image and reference before, absolutely no correlation between that and sail model in game, can't see a ship the size of a Connie stopping and then sailing backwards within the same time, distance and speed as this game.

its has to,  otherwise the game would be you waiting for your example ship to change course for 10 minutes each time you give it a command

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2 hours ago, admin said:
7 hours ago, van stiermarken said:

here in game you can sail with your ship forward, backward and sideways in a very unrealistic way

Who did put this into your head. Read your willis

It's so much fun sitting in Holland at a lock entrance in the sun with a coffee on the table watching some holiday skippers trying to stop in front of the lock. When realizing they start drifting, they try everything at once, bow thruster, rudder, reversing and finally full ahead again while the stone wall is getting closer and closer. Most motor boat people just don't know what wind does to your boat. And then there are computer gamers who never even went on a boat at all. 

Seriously, guys, the sailing in battle instance is close to perfect. There are only some minor things that could be a little better. But these are negligible for the sake of gameplay imho. 

  • Close hauled speeds are too high
  • Leeway should be greatly reduced with increasing speed
  • Accelleration/deccelleration is too high
  • Yard turn speeds are too high
  • "Depower" removing all jibs instantly is absolute nonsense
  • Fore and aft sails (spanker and jibs) position for downwind sailing is too close to the center line
  • No square rigged ship could tack through the wind without reversing, but in NA fast square riggers can do this

And of course, wind, waves and the weather in general are just too constant to be called realistic. 

All these flaws were implemented knowingly, for better gameplay (weather and all speed related things) or ease of coding (depower, sail position). 

 

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1 minute ago, Louis Garneray said:

having musket salvo and swivel guns available in the stern of the ship would help some I guess and an easy fix.

or a trim that if you have marines when you shoot from stern you also shoot with muskets to the enemy crew

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In general I don't see sterncamping as a huge issue, other than for the Snow.

It's turnrate is not realistic, and it's a shitty ship.

As for the general increase in carros for unrated vessels I'd like to see it reverted back to the old norm or have small 5th rates and up be able to install 42pds and 68pds carros as broadsides. Is it realistic? - No, before the invention of steel the recoil would simply rip the structure apart, but the same can be said about a 32pds carro on a snow or a 24pds carro on a tiny ship like a privateer.

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55 minutes ago, admin said:

We know how to fix sterncamping.. there are 3 solutions. 2 of them require 1-2 months of coding.
Accel/Decel is easy - will force more planning for the camper, increasing the skill level required to properly sit on the stern.


 

Just put a musket fire kill zone around ships and it will fix the small ship stern camping big ships.  

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1 hour ago, van Veen said:
  • Close hauled speeds are too high
  • Leeway should be greatly reduced with increasing speed
  • Accelleration/deccelleration is too high
  • Yard turn speeds are too high
  • "Depower" removing all jibs instantly is absolute nonsense
  • Fore and aft sails (spanker and jibs) position for downwind sailing is too close to the center line
  • No square rigged ship could tack through the wind without reversing, but in NA fast square riggers can do this

 

Ok, I've no idea from real life sailing, that's the reason why I described it my way and was corrected (rightly to be honest ) by the "admin" itself. 

but thanks to "van Veen" for his explanation, because that's was i meant in my post before.

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I suspect that there is a sweet spot with the snow where a reduction in its capabilities would make it enjoyable but not OP. Perhaps 5% reduction in speed? A tinkering with the sail profile? Seems to me the snow/stern camping is the single highest generator of complaints in the game atm.

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