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Durin

why is every new ship the best there is?

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ahoy

When you added the Hercules, it was better then any other 6th rate

When you added the Requin, it was better then any other upwind sailer

When you added Edymion and Idefatigable, they where better then any other 5th rate

When you added the Ocean, it was better then other 1st rates

When you added the Wasa, it was better then any other 4th rate

When you added the Christian, it was better then any other 2nd rate

now you added the Redoutable and Implacable, and they are better then any other 3rd rate

The only exception that comes to mind right now is the Wapen, it has a nice turnrate, but its not inherently better then other 4th rates. Some ppl still like to sail it anyway.

Could you add more mediocre ships in the future, that have some "hidden" advantages, like the Ingermanland is not particular better then other 4th rates, only it can sail downwind pretty well and has big main guns and a nice turnrate. Or the Snow is weaker then other 6th rates but its turnrate makes it competetive. But it takes some practise and skill to make em work.

Not every new ship has to be the new best thing by default right?

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Actually the endymion was by and far not the best 5th rate. The connie had more firepower, more hp, better sailing profile.. The Endymion could basically only sail in a straight line when they added her..

The redoubtable is not any better than the Bellona. Just check the map tool. 

The Snow is not "mediocre", it's the best in class by far, it outperform any other 6th rate, has a magical turnrate, 32pd carros and only slightly less hp and carro weight than the Niagara.. And due to it's insane turnrate the snow will always be best in class.. Actually @admin could you please revisit the snow? I won't say it should be realistic (as in sink immediately after being crafted) but it makes 0 sense that the best 6th rate in class sank on a lake, in it's very first storm... on a lake.. and it just happens to be best in class.

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5 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Actually @admin could you please revisit the snow? I won't say it should be realistic (as in sink immediately after being crafted) but it makes 0 sense that the best 6th rate in class sank on a lake, in it's very first storm... on a lake.. and it just happens to be best in class.

Seconded. Just tried it for the first time yesterday, and it is beyond broken. Makes every other 6th rate look like a bad joke. 

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if you know how to sail the snow, then its a very good ship. but if you know that, you will also know how to defeat it, and it can be defeated rather easily :P

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Just now, Durin said:

if you know how to sail the snow, then its a very good ship. but if you know that, you will also know how to defeat it, and it can be defeated rather easily :P

Not really. A good Snow captain can make sudden, completely unpredictable moves at will. If you predict and move to counter, they can simply change their tactics instantly to put you on the defensive again. Against other 6th rates, the only true defense against a Snow is running.

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If you dont know what i mean, i wont teach you, thats not what this thread is about. Lars put up counter arguments about 2 of the nine ships i named and i dont belive him. But even then the trend is the same. Most new ships outclass everything that was befor, and thats what this is about.

Edited by Durin

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8 hours ago, Durin said:

If you dont know what i mean, i wont teach you, thats not what this thread is about. Lars put up counter aguments about 2 of the nine ships i named and i dont belive him. But even then the trend is the same. Most new ships outclass everything that was befor, and thats what this is about.

I know exactly what you mean. In either case, your mistake is refusing to address the points at hand.

Edited by The Geth

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35 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Actually @admin could you please revisit the snow? I won't say it should be realistic (as in sink immediately after being crafted) but it makes 0 sense that the best 6th rate in class sank on a lake, in it's very first storm... on a lake.. and it just happens to be best in class.

Storms on the Great Lakes are not a few ripples in a pond. This argument against the Snow is tiresome. In fact, there are over 6,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes.

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9 minutes ago, GrubbyZebra said:

Storms on the Great Lakes are not a few ripples in a pond. This argument against the Snow is tiresome. In fact, there are over 6,000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes.

We can agree that it's a lake right?

It's not an oceangoing vessel.

It sank without ever firing a gun in battle.

In a storm.

Before it had even made it's maiden voyage.

It sank.

It's ofc best in class.

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36 minutes ago, Durin said:

Lars put up counter arguments about 2 of the nine ships i named and i dont belive him. 

It's not a question of belief. I don't do religion. It's a question of facts.

If u want we can take a duel - me in a wasa, you in a redoubtable.

If you want we can take a duel, me in a Snow - you in the 6th rate of your choice.

 

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52 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

If you want we can take a duel, me in a Snow - you in the 6th rate of your choice.

id take a niagara and use my stern 32pd carros until you got no mast left, what would that proof? that for every tactic or ship there is a countertactic? this has nothing to do with the topic.

and i wont buy any ship dlc

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Just now, Durin said:

id take a niagara and use my stern 32pd carros until you got no mast left, what would that proof? that for every tactic or ship there is a countertactic? this has nothing to do with the topic.

and i wont buy any ship dlc

np, a niagara it is.

Where?

EDIT: and when ofc, atm it's 4:41 AM and I'm not about to go back to port just so I can prove a point.

Edited by Guest

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2 minutes ago, Durin said:

i wish the creator of a topic could ban offtopic trolls like you ;)

I got a weeks vacation.. what the hell do u propose I should do?

 

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tell me why its a good thing that every new ship is better then all the old ships?

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1 hour ago, Lars Kjaer said:

We can agree that it's a lake right?

It's not an oceangoing vessel.

It sank without ever firing a gun in battle.

In a storm.

Before it had even made it's maiden voyage.

It sank.

It's ofc best in class.

It could have easily been an ocean-going vessel. The hull lines are markedly similar to other ocean-going brig-sloops of the era. 

It sank in a storm after being in service for 5 months, not "before its maiden voyage".

It never saw battle because there was not an enemy naval presence on Lake Ontario during its service. 

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Can you two just shut up about the snow.

Like any game, there will be power creep. More powerful ships sell better. 

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25 minutes ago, GrubbyZebra said:

It could have easily been an ocean-going vessel. The hull lines are markedly similar to other ocean-going brig-sloops of the era. 

It sank in a storm after being in service for 5 months, not "before its maiden voyage".

It never saw battle because there was not an enemy naval presence on Lake Ontario during its service. 

It sank before even leaving port. It's a shitty ship so ofc it HAS to be top of it's class..

And there's a lot more that differs a lake ship from an ocean-going vessel.. One indication is the reason why the Ontario sank in the first place.

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5 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

It sank before even leaving port. It's a shitty ship so ofc it HAS to be top of it's class..

And there's a lot more that differs a lake ship from an ocean-going vessel.. One indication is the reason why the Ontario sank in the first place.

I think you are confusing HMS Ontario with Vasa (1628). Ontario foundered several hours into a voyage between Niagara and Rochester. Many seaworthy, ocean-going vessels have foundered in storms on the Great Lakes, so Ontario's fate does not directly speak to her seaworthiness, rather it simply relates to the severity of the storm in which she met her fate.

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1 minute ago, GrubbyZebra said:

I think you are confusing HMS Ontario with Vasa (1628). Ontario foundered several hours into a voyage between Niagara and Rochester. Many seaworthy, ocean-going vessels have foundered in storms on the Great Lakes, so Ontario's fate does not directly speak to her seaworthiness, rather it simply relates to the severity of the storm in which she met her fate.

How many of the other 6th rates sank in a mild breeze?

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Just now, Lars Kjaer said:

How many of the other 6th rates sank in a mild breeze?

What is this "mild breeze" you speak of? Do you not understand what "sudden, severe storm" means?

Also, Niagara, which most definitely was a lake ship and, ironically, was a snow-brig, is in game as well without anybody complaining about its inclusion.

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10 minutes ago, GrubbyZebra said:

What is this "mild breeze" you speak of? Do you not understand what "sudden, severe storm" means?

Also, Niagara, which most definitely was a lake ship and, ironically, was a snow-brig, is in game as well without anybody complaining about its inclusion.

The niagara doesn't turn on a dime.. The turnrate of the Niagara is 3,99 - which is a bit high imo... But then it's great that the Snow has a turnrate of 5,1.. And that's not even taking manual sailing into account.

It's a unicorn ship. I don't care about its inclusion, I care that it's a magical ship bereft of any hold in anything resembling realism.

 

EDIT: Just for a point of reference, the niagara is a permit ship so one could argue that realism should take a back seat with that ship, but let's compare the snow with something else like fx. the brig: 5,1/3,61 or a rattlesnake, ofc the rattle will win easily it's a permit ship: 5,1/4,28 or let's take the Mercury: 5,1/4,09..

to sum it all up: It's a fairye ship for magical unicorns.

Edited by Guest

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26 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

The niagara doesn't turn on a dime.. The turnrate of the Niagara is 3,99 - which is a bit high imo... But then it's great that the Snow has a turnrate of 5,1.. And that's not even taking manual sailing into account.

It's a unicorn ship. I don't care about its inclusion, I care that it's a magical ship bereft of any hold in anything resembling realism.

 

EDIT: Just for a point of reference, the niagara is a permit ship so one could argue that realism should take a back seat with that ship, but let's compare the snow with something else like fx. the brig: 5,1/3,61 or a rattlesnake, ofc the rattle will win easily it's a permit ship: 5,1/4,28 or let's take the Mercury: 5,1/4,09..

to sum it all up: It's a fairye ship for magical unicorns.

Every ship in the game is ultimately a fairey tale ship, as realism has been changed for the sake of game play. But that is rather trivial.

I agree the turn rate of the snow is disproportionately high, especially given as its length to beam ratio should put the turn rate somewhere between the Niagara and the Mercury (a long, narrow hull turns slower than a short, wide hull). 

But that isn't the argument you made by saying it was a "lake ship" that "sank before its maiden voyage". These latter premises are what I rebutted, as up until the above quoted post, you had yet to make any quantitative statement regarding the in-game ship.

Edited by GrubbyZebra

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4 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Actually @admin could you please revisit the snow? I won't say it should be realistic (as in sink immediately after being crafted) but it makes 0 sense that the best 6th rate in class sank on a lake, in it's very first storm... on a lake.. and it just happens to be best in class.

Take New Orleans Nassau in snows and we talk. 

 

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