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7 hours ago, admin said:

It will be an old style HMS Victory with proper bow figure and stern balconies that will 

  • Bring more PVP
  • Bring more RVR
  • And save time for people who have kids and families

 

22 hours ago, admin said:

You can capture any first rate you see in the world for FREE with almost no effort. It will take 2 mins. From NPCs.

 

Ah cmon man, you cant have your cake and eat it too. In one post you say DLC will save time for people and in the other one you claim it takes 2 minutes to get a similar ship. So which one is it?

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16 minutes ago, Wuhan bat soup said:

 

 

Ah cmon man, you cant have your cake and eat it too. In one post you say DLC will save time for people and in the other one you claim it takes 2 minutes to get a similar ship. So which one is it?

You need to play less tarkov man. That Kolpak with face shield is frying your brain. 
How can you clam those things be mutually exclusive? They are not. In fact 10000 of users do both on a weekly basis.

  • You can capture a first rate by rage boarding in 2 mins from NPC for free and save time
  • You can redeem a dlc ship and also save time. 

Both were done to save time and do exactly this. Those who pushed the feature to stop us from making all NPC ships capturable were wrong. 

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Ah....

I was hoping for anything except 1st rate dlc. I thought it was to be safe from dlcs. 

Ah well, it's a losing battle.

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

You need to play less tarkov man. That Kolpak with face shield is frying your brain. 
How can you clam those things be mutually exclusive? They are not. In fact 10000 of users do both on a weekly basis.

  • You can capture a first rate by rage boarding in 2 mins from NPC for free and save time
  • You can redeem a dlc ship and also save time. 

Both were done to save time and do exactly this. Those who pushed the feature to stop us from making all NPC ships capturable were wrong. 

Maybe its all the painkillers I have to chuck...

You are right here.

 

I personally hope for NA2 its either time saving or economy so everyone is on the same page.

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it´ll be good for the gameplay to have all ship-rates as dlcs. more availability, more action,... i cannot see any argument against it, expcept some people fearing for their exclusive, crafted, high-bonus ships.

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49 minutes ago, admin said:

I have heard they (redoutables) were paytowin and were built to tire the enemy by attrition. 

You must've been listening to ppl who can't use the map tool in felix' map to compare ships :)

 

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8 hours ago, admin said:

Permits have zero correlation with online of the game. 

 

Well, if there is one  two things that have affected my time in the game that's:
The price to get the superior seasoned wood and the inability to build the ships I like unless I get a random drop of the permit.
 

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1 minute ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

it´ll be good for the gameplay to have all ship-rates as dlcs. more availability, more action,... i cannot see any argument against it, expcept some people fearing for their exclusive, crafted, high-bonus ships.

It is the correct approach.

Is all about "time investment", and as such a wargame life cycle of [ ----> supply bases ----> logistics -----> assets ----> war ----> supply bases ] that needs stress on logistics, in both creating and supplying assets, which in practice may work in a completely different environment, as it naturally reduces power creep; is broken given it doesn't affect the whole in NA ( such as the nation's navy power ) but affects the particular ( the one captain collection of ships ). But by simulating this the time investment may well be the most strenuous aspect of it given the fact that each player is a navy owner and must continuously build, upgrade, replace, etc. Hence the time investment becomes the most precious commodity - time sitting and playing the game.

In the end the natural tendency, it seems in many mmos, is to bypass all burdens, by all means necessary. NA is no different from what I see now. Game is totally battle oriented with ports being the control points. And it is never ending. With little time investment there's little to own to risk/reward but a lot to gain for everyone with fast access to action wherever it is happening.

Admin does point out that many, including myself, that put too much energy on suggesting a simulation wargame, were wrong and he may well say so. The sales in DLC products do tell the final story.

 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Some will be free some will be paid it is as clear as we can go, without later being held hostage by the strict language ethics committee 🙂. Depends on models
But i think we were clear, we did say which ships would be crafted - admiralty gift ship can be an imported ship.. Just like Santa Sicilia (it has been an unlisted unlaunched DLC since 2017)

Its a matter of being able to decide which dlc we wish to purchase, not everyone can afford every dlc. I was very excited to see wrecker, redoubtable and another victory (3 of my favourite ship classes) coming to the game. I was planning to purchase the redoubtable, however, I then saw your post saying wrecker class may come as a dlc. I prefer the wrecker class visually and can only afford one or the other so now I am left waiting until both are released to decide. Now theres also the option of this victory dlc to consider.

Supposed I had not seen the changes to which ships will be dlc and gone ahead and purchased the redoubtable only for the 2 ships I prefer and was looking forward to coming as craftable to be put behind a paywall. Limited budget, spent it on one ship believing the others I prefer and am excited for would be free, now cant use those ships - left feeling bitter and regretting my purchase.

The alternative is my case, see the changes to whats coming as a dlc instead of crafted and then hold off purchasing for the 1-2 months until the different options are available for purchase. During that period of waiting im not accessing benefits you've listed of having the dlc. There is also a decent chance that in 6 weeks time my interests/budget will have changed and I may not end up purchasing any ship.

I'm sure I cant be the only one in this sort of situation. For me the clarity of being able plan a limited budget to get the ships I like the most makes for a much more compelling purchase.

Edited by hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333
missing word
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Com on guys stop to complain, we have much more PVP since the redoutable is here.

Captains that was afraid to fight in lineships before ( because the time you need to craft one if you loose) , are now much more courageous. 
 
Also , for the same BR you have St Pavel, Buc, or Christian that are much more powerfull. 

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7 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Admin does point out that many, including myself, that put too much energy on suggesting a simulation wargame, were wrong and he may well say so. The sales in DLC products do tell the final story.

But maybe giving  more weight  on the  simulation wargame side,  could be a strategy to be different respect other games like S&B

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19 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

Well, if there is one  two things that have affected my time in the game that's:
The price to get the superior seasoned wood and the inability to build the ships I like unless I get a random drop of the permit.
 

You were gone well before the seasoned woods entered the game.  The permit wall is a bit annoying, but it is directly related to how much time you actually spend in the game.  Log in and do some screening action or port battles and you'll accumulate marks easy enough.  

I would prefer that seasoned woods were not in the game as it perpetuates the rich get richer playstyle that is already an issue with the game overall.  But if you're like me and don't particularly care if you're sailing in them or not......it's easy to just ignore and move on.  

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More or less on the same argument...

May I know why in the hell we keep adding (nice) ships (now - finally, great! - the LGVR) as NOTES and &%$£ redeemable MAKING A %$£"% PAIN to get a competitive one???

IS IT DAMN SO DIFFICULT TO ADD THE OPTION TO DAMN B-U-I-L-D THE D-A-M-N-E-D SHIP I WANT TO SAIL!?

And I do not say to delete redeemables/notes and so on: SIMPLY ADD THE DAMNED O-P-T-I-O-N to get a £$"$£% PERMIT.

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10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

It is the correct approach.

Is all about "time investment", and as such a wargame life cycle of [ ----> supply bases ----> logistics -----> assets ----> war ----> supply bases ] that needs stress on logistics, in both creating and supplying assets, which in practice may work in a completely different environment, as it naturally reduces power creep; is broken given it doesn't affect the whole in NA ( such as the nation's navy power ) but affects the particular ( the one captain collection of ships ). But by simulating this the time investment may well be the most strenuous aspect of it given the fact that each player is a navy owner and must continuously build, upgrade, replace, etc. Hence the time investment becomes the most precious commodity - time sitting and playing the game.

In the end the natural tendency, it seems in many mmos, is to bypass all burdens, by all means necessary. NA is no different from what I see now. Game is totally battle oriented with ports being the control points. And it is never ending. With little time investment there's little to own to risk/reward but a lot to gain for everyone with fast access to action wherever it is happening.

Admin does point out that many, including myself, that put too much energy on suggesting a simulation wargame, were wrong and he may well say so. The sales in DLC products do tell the final story.

 

very good summary! i agree and woud love to craft ship-parts for instance like it has been a while ago. the complexity could be much higher and enjoyable! but with the system we got right now i strongly tend to advertise for availability. otherwise it´ll be always only a rather little exclusive group with huge quantities of the good stuff murdering the rest and boasting about it. good balance is needed. that´s btw my thought of the dynamic battle-rating. a seasoned wood, well upgraded trinco with good cannons e.g. compared to a sabicu/crew space etc. is so much better - and please no "but it is skill that matters dumbarse!!" - that the br simply mustn´t be the same! the much inferior ship has to have a chance to get reinforcement. oops, i got off-topic now :)

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14 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said:

Its a matter of being able to decide which dlc we wish to purchase, not everyone can afford every dlc. I was very excited to see wrecker, redoubtable and another victory (3 of my favourite ship classes) coming to the game. I was planning to purchase the redoubtable, however, I then saw your post saying wrecker class may come as a dlc. I prefer this class visually and can only afford one or the other so now I am left waiting until both are released to decide. Now theres the option of this victory dlc to consider.

Supposed I had not seen the changes to which ships will be dlc and gone ahead and purchased the redoubtable only for the 2 ships I prefer and was looking forward to coming as craftable to be put behind a paywall. Limited budget, spent it on one ship believing the others I prefer and am excited for would be free, now cant use those ships - left feeling bitter and regretting my purchase.

The alternative is my case, see the changes to whats coming as a dlc instead of crafted and then hold off purchasing for the 1-2 months until the different options are available for purchase. During that period of waiting im not accessing benefits you've listed of having the dlc. There is also a decent chance that in 6 weeks time my interests/budget will have changed and I may not end up purchasing any ship.

I'm sure I cant be the only one in this sort of situation. For me the clarity of being able plan a limited budget to get the ships I like the most makes for a much more compelling purchase.

U don't "need" every DLC in the game - you WANT every DLC in the game.. You don't even NEED one.. Want to fight in the shallows? - Snow's the most OP ship of its class and it's both magically unicorny and not a permitship.. Want to fight in a 5th rate? Who the hello kitty sails anything but a surp for the shallows or a trinc/endy for hunting? Want to sail a third rate? - Bellona is a better option and the wasa is still viable as a hunting ship. In fact I'd argue that I can kill most in their redoubtables 1v1 in the Wasa.. gotta love them front chaser, the faster turnrate and boarding you know.. Want to fight first rates? Well any first rate crafted is better than any DLC.. If u want to do RvR you can't rely on DLC ships, the RNG is simply too shitty..

As to the Wrecker vs. redoubtable? - I can kinda feel ya' but on the other hand, I've got the redoubtable and who is to say that a prettier 3rd rate won't come along down the line (and yes looks matter, I don't wanna sink in something looking like the wappen, worst looker among 'em), same deal - u make the choices u make on the basis of the information available..

 

12 minutes ago, captain smile said:

Com on guys stop to complain, we have much more PVP since the redoutable is here.

Captains that was afraid to fight in lineships before ( because the time you need to craft one if you loose) , are now much more courageous. 
 
Also , for the same BR you have St Pavel, Buc, or Christian that are much more powerfull. 

Agreed

 

11 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

But maybe giving  more weight  on the  simulation wargame side,  could be a strategy to be different respect other games like S&B

That ship sailed with the privateer fleets. Let's not fool around here... Want econ to matter? - then allow a guerre de course to starve enemy nations of ressources. Want protection to trade/craft/lvl up ships and do PvE? - then u can't talk about econ strategy as something important to strategy.

People cannot claim to want privateer fleets and at the same time rail against the DLC ships - both limits the ability to actually force an RvR outcome outside and inside of port battles, the first means that in order to "beat" your enemy u have to one port him. The second means that even one ported ppl can still play the game. Personally I think port bonus' should be available for all or removed entirely, remove the privateer fleets and let the war server be a war server.. Then we could discuss DLC ships as "pay2win" but atm? - that ship has sailed.

 

 

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I still think i'll be nice for some lower rate dlcs too, partially because I like smaller ship but I'll wait with the pace of development ^^ At some point I would hope for bigger dock space as 30 ship slots would be not enough xD I'd pay the dlcs but I hope the extra slot extension isnt a paid content. Partially I also hope the money from the dlcs yall can make a really nice sea legends because I'm really looking forward to it =p

I already love the yacht, requin and hercules but more could be nice too. 

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12 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

First off - stop comparing a Redoubtable in fine woods with another 3rd rate or even a 2nd rate in normal woods. If you want to make the comparison you need to have equal stats on both sides.

Fx. A redoubtable vs. a bellona:

The bellona is faster, turns slightly better, sligthly less deceleration (good for turning through the wind) and the bellona has a slightly better sailing profile.. It's broadside is neglible less than the redoubtable and even if we regard the carros there isn't much difference.. The largest difference is the dpm difference between the 36pd compared to the 32pds, but that isn't a major difference.

This is the baseline.

Now we can add rare woods. Let's take a bellona in teak/WO with port bonus' from SJ vs. a redoubtable in teak (s)/WO (s), with the port boni of my last redoubtable: (actually my last redoubtable only got gunnery 2 and mast and rig 2, so let's take another example) The redoubtable gets S3, H2, G2,C2 and mast and rig 2, I think most can agree that it's a meh drop but reasonable in so far the RNG is reasonable..

Now the redoubtable has improved armor (5cm on the sides), slightly improved hp (2300 on the sides), and reloads 2.5% slower, has 2.5% less penetration, 2,5% worse aim.

This imo is reasonably balanced and have in mind will u that it is possible to craft the Bellona in seasoned woods wich markedly removes the advantages of the redoubtable except the hp advantage.

To state that the redoubtable is OP is simply an uninformed opinion.. I can recommend ppl use this tool for making comparisons, pls notice that the redoubtable in the tool is fixed for 32pd cannons. https://na-map.netlify.com/

Agreed.

 

Sure, put that way the stats are somewhat comparable, and likely the determining factor would be player skill. Remember also that not all nations have the best port bonuses for crafted ships. Also everything penetrates in close quarter combat.

But you didn't factor in that the one is a DLC and can be redeemed daily. Bellonas take a permit and dubloons...I doubt anyone can build Bellonas each day for infinity.

Edited by Yoha
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1 minute ago, Lars Kjaer said:

U don't "need" every DLC in the game - you WANT every DLC in the game.. You don't even NEED one.. 

As to the Wrecker vs. redoubtable? - I can kinda feel ya' but on the other hand, I've got the redoubtable and who is to say that a prettier 3rd rate won't come along down the line (and yes looks matter, I don't wanna sink in something looking like the wappen, worst looker among 'em), same deal - u make the choices u make on the basis of the information available..

It is indeed a matter of wanting rather than needing. A lot of people will want some ships more than others and want to purchase a dlc. If the information on which ships will be behind a pay wall keeps changing or is not available it makes the choice much harder to make.

For me a $30-$50 dollar dlc purchase is a significant amount. Being able to know which ships I can chose from or will be an available option soon allows me to make a much more informed purchase with no regret afterwards thinking 'why did I purchase x, I could have got this one instead'.

Different, potentially more desirable ships, that aren't announced at my time of purchase dont worry me, its about choosing from what is available now or coming in the immediate future. Its the lack of clarity over current options that causes the problem.

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I agree you should be able to get the permit for all the DLC ships. However I also think it would be nice if all the permit ships could be DLC. They would be imported so you couldn't trade or sell em like a normal permit ship. Let me buy em all and redeem a connie every day in hope's I roll that good one. I freakin love this game and will happily throw my wallet at it. I personally have to work everyday, so when I can play I go fight. I'm glad the trade is there and would even like to see it expanded on but I have no intrest in it. I'm here for battle but when it takes me a month to build my S wood Connie's it's hard to take big fun risks in them. If all the permit ships are DLC then buy your favorites but the free guys can still get them to; with a little more effort. I admit I have not really thought this through and I'm looking at it through the lens of my play style. I see it as an opportunity for the dev's to make a lot more money without having to add anything new. Am I crazy? This sure sounds great in my head XD

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Just now, MrOkieDokie said:

I agree you should be able to get the permit for all the DLC ships. However I also think it would be nice if all the permit ships could be DLC. They would be imported so you couldn't trade or sell em like a normal permit ship. Let me buy em all and redeem a connie every day in hope's I roll that good one. I freakin love this game and will happily throw my wallet at it. I personally have to work everyday, so when I can play I go fight. I'm glad the trade is there and would even like to see it expanded on but I have no intrest in it. I'm here for battle but when it takes me a month to build my S wood Connie's it's hard to take big fun risks in them. If all the permit ships are DLC then buy your favorites but the free guys can still get them to; with a little more effort. I admit I have not really thought this through and I'm looking at it through the lens of my play style. I see it as an opportunity for the dev's to make a lot more money without having to add anything new. Am I crazy? This sure sounds great in my head XD

So DAMN SIMPLE.

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1 hour ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

it´ll be good for the gameplay to have all ship-rates as dlcs. more availability, more action,... i cannot see any argument against it, expcept some people fearing for their exclusive, crafted, high-bonus ships.

It's called pay-to-win if those DLCs cost money. 

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3 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said:

It is indeed a matter of wanting rather than needing. A lot of people will want some ships more than others and want to purchase a dlc. If the information on which ships will be behind a pay wall keeps changing or is not available it makes the choice much harder to make.

For me a $30-$50 dollar dlc purchase is a significant amount. Being able to know which ships I can chose from or will be an available option soon allows me to make a much more informed purchase with no regret afterwards thinking 'why did I purchase x, I could have got this one instead'.

Different, potentially more desirable ships, that aren't announced at my time of purchase dont worry me, its about choosing from what is available now or coming in the immediate future. Its the lack of clarity over current options that causes the problem.

This is a different issue than the pay2win and could perhaps be solved by the roadmap, where admin could state which ships (if any) he intended to introduce to the game and which of them would be paywalled (provided that it's been decided upon). I'd still like crafters to be able to craft the DLC ships, either by giving a BP if u buy the DLC or by allowing them to be crafted for fx. an exhorbitant amount of CMs so that ppl that doesn't necessarily have the DLC to try them out..

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6 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said:

It is indeed a matter of wanting rather than needing. A lot of people will want some ships more than others and want to purchase a dlc. If the information on which ships will be behind a pay wall keeps changing or is not available it makes the choice much harder to make.

For me a $30-$50 dollar dlc purchase is a significant amount. Being able to know which ships I can chose from or will be an available option soon allows me to make a much more informed purchase with no regret afterwards thinking 'why did I purchase x, I could have got this one instead'.

Different, potentially more desirable ships, that aren't announced at my time of purchase dont worry me, its about choosing from what is available now or coming in the immediate future. Its the lack of clarity over current options that causes the problem.

I bet most people who purchased the Leopard wish they had waited.

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Just now, Yoha said:

It's called pay-to-win if those DLCs cost money. 

No, it's called monetization.

The requirement for a pay2win is that u can get something that is OP compared to other similar items by locking them behind pay2win. Any1 claiming the current DLC ships are pay2win is simply not very good at math. Again I can recommend Felix' map where ships can be compared.

6 minutes ago, MrOkieDokie said:

I agree you should be able to get the permit for all the DLC ships. However I also think it would be nice if all the permit ships could be DLC. They would be imported so you couldn't trade or sell em like a normal permit ship. Let me buy em all and redeem a connie every day in hope's I roll that good one. I freakin love this game and will happily throw my wallet at it. I personally have to work everyday, so when I can play I go fight. I'm glad the trade is there and would even like to see it expanded on but I have no intrest in it. I'm here for battle but when it takes me a month to build my S wood Connie's it's hard to take big fun risks in them. If all the permit ships are DLC then buy your favorites but the free guys can still get them to; with a little more effort. I admit I have not really thought this through and I'm looking at it through the lens of my play style. I see it as an opportunity for the dev's to make a lot more money without having to add anything new. Am I crazy? This sure sounds great in my head XD

^this

OMG I'd buy the endymion so hard that I'd prob soil myself and my wallet.....

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Just now, Lars Kjaer said:

This is a different issue than the pay2win and could perhaps be solved by the roadmap, where admin could state which ships (if any) he intended to introduce to the game and which of them would be paywalled (provided that it's been decided upon). I'd still like crafters to be able to craft the DLC ships, either by giving a BP if u buy the DLC or by allowing them to be crafted for fx. an exhorbitant amount of CMs so that ppl that doesn't necessarily have the DLC to try them out..

Ye in hindsight my complaints probably rather off topic for the thread.

Thats all im looking for though with the dlcs - when they know and announce ships coming to the game make it clear which will be dlc and stick with that decision. That way customers can save for, get hyped for and purchase the ships they actually want instead of impulse buying and later regretting because they now cant get something they would prefer.

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