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As long as the non DLC ships remain useful and balanced then please keep on bringing us great DLC ships. Looking forward to the new Victory :D

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I see the main problem with the dlc ship in the effort you need to craft a comparable ship. Especially the doubloons have to be earned somehow, the other mats are not so difficult to get, except for seasoned woods of course. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Some people already consider that we have already broke all promises.

Not all, but at least some of them. But actually that is side story

The main problem is still around - you are too centered on battles, not on the Open World where all actions take place (even Kill missions - you have to sail in OW to their locations). And in the OW we have not only battles. It's politics, economy (crafting and trading), some exploration and naval war on large scale with planning operations, logistics etc. But you think only of "grab you ship, arm it with cannons, buy some repairs and go to fight" - arena-style, not OW sandbox MMO as it seems at first glance. Even when the latest rise of online population was mostly due to making trade (OW activities) profitable again, not because of DLC.
And considering grind - it was you who made Ships-of-the-Line much more hard to get (that was understandable) leading to more grind and time consuming work, and now to ease that immense grind you offer players other way as paid DLC. Wise move and successful one.

So as nothing changed then I can just repeat (and you can reread) my posts about it in the aforementioned topic, but better just give a link.

P.S. By the way there are also cited many of your statements about SoL DLCs. The one that I cited here is just the latest one.

P.P.S. For both content and DLC - introduce Whaler Ship DLC, so people will have to pay for ability to whaling and get money from it ingame.

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I never liked the full ship DLCs.
Both due to making some ships seen as "for free" (while none is: real ship costs very often lies on modding more than simple hull) and especially because it could alter the game economy.

Changing how DLCs are is obviously unfeasible at the moment.

Still I'd repeat my old proposal to save both sides of the equation without cancelling anything of the privileges of DLCs but reducing both issues:

DLC:
redeemable full ship on 24hr CD - the ship will be always blue quality and of any chosen wood.
Port bonuses will be capped at 3 per category with a minimum of 9 points randomly awarded (sincerely, redeeming a gold ship with Hull-1 and Crew-1 is more unnerving than other).

OR

player will redeem ship permit (eventually on a shared 48 hr CD - meaning that on 48hrs you redeem or 2 ships or 1 permit) usable to craft the ship as any other one.
Tradable or not-tradable permit would be more a matter of taste: not-tradable will upkeep the DLCs only on DLCs owners. Tradable would allow simpler crafting for all and also not-DLC-owners to try out some ships. 

 

- From a shop perspective DLC owners will get MORE than previous (the option to craft their preferred ship).
- all redeemed ships having demi-decent port bonuses (the minimum of 9 points) and seasoned wood will be "decent".
- a redeemed ship will be still less performing of a crafted one (always blue and with port bonuses capped at 3 as maximum).
- really competitive ships will be always crafted, both being DLCs or not.

What about this @admin?

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
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3 hours ago, admin said:

It will be an old style HMS Victory with proper bow figure and stern balconies that will 

  • Bring more PVP
  • Bring more RVR
  • Fund new ships and new content.
  • And save time for people who have kids and families
  • And it will win against snows, frigates, 3rd rates and 140 gun santisimas
  • And it will sink to snows, frigates, 3rd rates and stronger ships. 
  • And it will be beautiful. 

Im just wondering then.

Why can the dlc ships explicit redeem as the best woods? 

  • Today they are used to break up to get seasoned woods which indirectly is a game exploit since you have other playable game mechanics that gets you the same result, so why are even breaking up dlc ships possible? This contradicts your statement for quick pvp, rvr and content.

If they there for quick pvp, rvr and new content, why cant they be locked to oak oak if that's mostly their purpose?

  • And if you wanted it to be crafted into something else you could add that particular material to the mix to change the stats. Since these ships are of its own brand, it should be possible to redeem a blueprint of the ship instead and craft it of the prefered woods and bonuses.

 

One thing i would change though is that all the redeemables are linked to the server reset and not the 24h mark

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
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2 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

Why can the dlc ships explicit redeem as the best woods? 

Because we have to pay a good amount of real money for them? 

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7 minutes ago, Smoothie said:

Because we have to pay a good amount of real money for them? 

then why doesn't this fall under the p2w genre (i know skill matters more in the game, but if you set a seasoned redoutable vs non seasoned implacable up against each other with 2 completely equal bots, the redoutable will win because of the woods)? if you can pay for a product, unlock it as a the best one in its class? and even break it up to craft an other ship with the superior woods. IMO you should atleast have to add the seasoned woods to the mix to have it as a seasoned wood ship, that would be fair towards all other ships

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
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Redoutable ist not best in class...

Easy to board, missing turnrate. Problem for me is that everyone sails and ganks you in 3rds instead of 4th or 5th rates these days.

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Just now, Dalai Lama said:

Redoutable ist not best in class...

Easy to board, missing turnrate. Problem for me is that everyone sails and ganks you in 3rds instead of 4th or 5th rates these days.

Combine time spent getting it and stat wise it is. How long time does it take you to build a Teak(S) White Oak(S) Implacable vs Redoutable? Of course firstly its up to the captain in matters of skill, if you know how to play the boarding game and plan ahead you wont have problem with boarding and the turn rate. Usually everyone ganks because its easier and people want to minimize their chances of losing

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42 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

then why doesn't this fall under the p2w genre

Is the gap between seasoned and non seasoned wood really so huge ? I'm not so sure

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I have no problem with the DLC ships being there, my problem with it is that they are to easy to replace when lost, with that I mean. We got the Redoutable and Implacable, to get the Redoutable you have to buy it for RL money, that's fine, but once you have it you can redeem it every day for nothing, while the Implacable. You have to find a rare permit and when you have that you need to get all the resources required to make it, you also need to toss over 7k dubs at it.

IMO all DLC ships 4th rate and up should require a set amount of resources and wood of the type you want to make it of and a set sum of dubs to redeem. That or make the DLC ships of 4th rate and up into a redeemable permit that you can use to build the ship.

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21 minutes ago, Smoothie said:

Is the gap between seasoned and non seasoned wood really so huge ? I'm not so sure

That's entirely irrelevant; any gap would be P2W. It would mean that two players of equal skill would not be evenly matched, because one of them paid for an advantage over the other. The advantage need not be large, its mere existence is proof enough.

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1 minute ago, The Geth said:

That's entirely irrelevant; any gap would be P2W. It would mean that two players of equal skill would not be evenly matched, because one of them paid for an advantage over the other. The advantage need not be large, its mere existence is proof enough.

Admin already advised that getting seasoned woods in game will become easier. So dunno where your problem lies. Do you want seasoned woods flying into your warehouse without any effort?

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28 minutes ago, Smoothie said:

Admin already advised that getting seasoned woods in game will become easier. So dunno where your problem lies. Do you want seasoned woods flying into your warehouse without any effort?

It depends how easy it will become available ofcourse, but as you say yourself "Do you want seasoned woods flying into your warehouse without any effort?" That is literally how it is today when you can break up lineships to get seasoned wood where it could drop several hundreds of logs from one breakup, which if you would sink a privateer fleet you risk alot of ships, upgrades, time etc and you might not even get as much as breaking up dlc ships.

 

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Just now, erelkivtuadrater said:

It depends how easy it will become available ofcourse, but as you say yourself "Do you want seasoned woods flying into your warehouse without any effort?" That is literally how it is today when you can break up lineships to get seasoned wood where it could drop several hundreds of logs from one breakup, which if you would sink a privateer fleet you risk alot of ships, upgrades, time etc and you might not even get as much as breaking up dlc ships.

 

Did you ever break up DLC ships?

I did and the outcome of seasoned wood logs was almost irrelevant. And maybe just 1 out of 10 break ups did ever give some of them.

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5 hours ago, admin said:

First rate Imported ship is coming!

I doubt this will make a difference, but can you please consider making it a redeemable permit and just remove the requirement for doubloons in the recipe for that ship?
Then those who own the DLC ship will skip the grind for doubloons and combat medals/RNG permit drop. This alone is a huge time save.

IMO: Making 1. rates magically appear in game in once per day will seriously impact the crafting economy. It will reduce the need for invested (to make them crafting hubs for collect resources and crafting with ship bonus). In addition it will seriously reduce the trader traffic in OW collecting all the resources required for the 1. rates. This will have a huge impact on PvP in OW (Less traders) and RvR (ports mater less).

I have bought every single one of the DLC so far except the Leopold, and some DLC multiple times on different characters. As long as I continue to play, I will continue to support the game but I fear the effect changes like this has on our game.   

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2 minutes ago, Smoothie said:

Did you ever break up DLC ships?

I did and the outcome of seasoned wood logs was almost irrelevant. And maybe just 1 out of 10 break ups did ever give some of them.

yes i did its rng based as with sealed bottles and the drop from privateer fleets, now of course admin updated the main post for the hotfix 12th feb patch so it will happen more frequently, but then the problem still stands that you can instantly redeem a fully seasoned ship, but hopefully it will eventually get better, but the damage is already done and thats the reason this community is so fragile

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Just now, erelkivtuadrater said:

yes i did its rng based as with sealed bottles and the drop from privateer fleets, now of course admin updated the main post for the hotfix 12th feb patch so it will happen more frequently, but then the problem still stands that you can instantly redeem a fully seasoned ship, but hopefully it will eventually get better, but the damage is already done and thats the reason this community is so fragile

Nah, don't paint everything black. Playerbase is still steady and happy to play the game :)

 

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@admin

I believe a lot of the perceived hate towards dlc ships comes from the honesty, or lack of, around them. Is it really any surprise people get annoyed when we get a well laid out promising dev plan only for just weeks later the devs to be changing what they'll be releasing as a dlc. Now the "Admiralty Gift ship" Victory is confirmed to be dlc and in another post you have said the "crafted" Wrecker class may in fact come as a dlc.

Completely understand the need for the game to be financially viable, however, if its been planned out with those 2 ships not being dlc why the sudden need for revenue especially after such a successful sale of the redoubtable?

By all means add further dlcs down the line, i would love to continue supporting the game, just please ensure future plans are explicitly clear what will and will not be a dlc; to avoid them seemingly being a cash grab after some success.

Edited by hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333
grammer mistake

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50 minutes ago, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh33333 said:

By all means add further dlcs down the line, i would love to continue supporting the game, just please ensure future plans are explicitly clear what will and will not be a dlc

Some will be free some will be paid it is as clear as we can go, without later being held hostage by the strict language ethics committee 🙂. Depends on models
But i think we were clear, we did say which ships would be crafted - admiralty gift ship can be an imported ship.. Just like Santa Sicilia (it has been an unlisted unlaunched DLC since 2017)

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Some will be free some will be paid it is as clear as we can go, without later being held hostage by the strict language ethics committee 🙂
 

Will Rotterdam be free? What about Montagnes?

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6 hours ago, admin said:


 **** that old promise. 

  • First it was given when we only promised 10 ships and 3 maps, we could afford 10 ships and 3 new maps, but community wants more and somebody will have to pay for it. 
  • Second i grew older and no longer have time to grind, these ships are for the older me. Younger me can still grind and have even better ships. 
  • Third, Do you want new content and post about it? Would you agree to code them for free? No. I cant find free programmers unfortunately.

+ Some people already consider that we have already broke all promises.  We were bashed on the bases of linguistics (even on youtube) for keeping the promise when we introduced a promised 4th rate. Why endure hate for keeping promises?  Or trying to change the promises (release wipe). 

And yes. No more promises, we burnt hard on the wipe and 4th rate debacle, and were left with no emotions. 
 

PS. The post you linked does not contain any confirmation of your statement, we were talking about old discussions there. 

Would you consider a decent 5th rate, 18pd/24pd gundeck frig for DLC?

Personally I'd love to see a danish frigate ingame, I believe the Freja is in the shiparchive and she's a decent looker - and if u have to sink, look good while doing it is important.

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7 hours ago, admin said:

Permits have zero correlation with online of the game. 

 

No.
But there are other opinions on this subject of course.

Some people disagree with the implementation, some people just hate DLC because its fashionable to hate DLC. 
Those people were complaining about Hercules when there were stronger ships than Herc, then they complained about 5th rates, when there were stronger ships than 5th rates, and this circle goes on. Suddenly Hercules is no longer p2w, but the new new thing is. 

We tried to reason with them as we valued all opinions. But as you probably found in modern world and polarized politics it seems people don't want to listen to arguments of the opposite side. Some of them even complained to Steam about Rattvisan being a 4th rate even sent Valve screenshots from threedecks, some sent lies to youtubers to catch attention (like claiming that we dont allow ANY topics to be started on Steam forums)

Ships are not P2Win because they dont guarantee the win and they always have better alternative in game. There are other opinions of course but there are other opinions on everything. We cant get distracted by them, and recommend you stop getting distracted by it. 

I am not sure why this conversation even started, as we already mentioned couple of months before. 
First rate Imported ship is coming!

U5VwAWX.jpg

It will be an old style HMS Victory with proper bow figure and stern balconies that will 

  • Bring more PVP
  • Bring more RVR
  • Fund new ships and new content.
  • And save time for people who have kids and families
  • And it will win against snows, frigates, 3rd rates and 140 gun santisimas
  • And it will sink to snows, frigates, 3rd rates and stronger ships. 
  • And it will be beautiful. 



 

 

I don't think it'll bring more RvR. The difference between a crafted 1st rate and the RNG DLC ships are just too wide. We don't see redoubtables in 5700 BR PBs for a reason (those few who's brought one is as far as I know on the losing side, and that for a reason).

I'd like to suggest that those who buy a DLC get's the bp as well to craft the ships. This can't be considered OP since they'd have to gather rs for crafting it, and in most cases the DLC ship is less powerfull than the strongest in the same tier. And it'll allow crafters to sell the ships to players considering of purchasing the ship, thus help both ingame econ and DLC sales.

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7 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

I don't think it'll bring more RvR. The difference between a crafted 1st rate and the RNG DLC ships are just too wide. We don't see redoubtables in 5700 BR PBs for a reason (those few who's brought one is as far as I know on the losing side, and that for a reason).

I have heard they (redoutables) were paytowin and were built to tire the enemy by attrition. 

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Whats up with breaking up redoutable and getting up to 300 season wood from it if lucky ? Thats quite a big amount and you get seasoned wood for free, without doing anything. Is it working as intended ?

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