Abilene Paradox - Features that you think others like but personally hate

[Thonys]

i hate it>>  when coming out of a fleet composition 

the ship does not remember his ship lay out on the knowledge slots .  (and are all blanco again)

Edited February 9, 2020 by Thonys

[Sea Archer]

32 lbs guns on small ships without a disadvantage. 

A ship will always displace the same amount of water, when it shall be able to sail the same speed, and to swim stable even in stormy weather. 

The stability is the distance between the center of gravity and the buoyancy focus. The bigger the distance the more stable a ship will swim.

When adding bigger guns high above the waterline and the general displacement shall stay the same (for the same speed), consequently the ballast must be reduced. This will move the center of gravity upwards, while the buoyancy focus stays the same. Therefore the ship will be less stable. 

This should be reflected in the game.

I think it was in one of the Thomas Kydd, where he gets his first frigate command and wants to swap his guns to a higher calibre, which is dismissed due to stability reasons.

[StaleMemes]

I have a couple, some are crazy.

1. Pirate nation. I think pirates are currently a huge lost opportunity for a fun, less time intensive, exciting playstyle. With pirate nation, theres no reason to really have pirates at all because they are just another nation which is unrealistic. Lots of suggestions have been put forth to change pirates, but they usually get shot down by players who currently play pirates that don't want to lose their nation. This shouldn't be allowed to stop progress and working on underdeveloped areas of the game. Make piracy the rough, dangerous, (and often short) outlaw life running from the navy and raiding the weak, and I will never play for a conventional nation again. I've been waiting to play as a pirate since the combat test module, hopefully it will happen one day.

2. Boarding. I don't like the rock paper scissors boarding and I don't like the binary way it works. Ships going from full sails to lashed and completely unable to move or do anything except board, while also able to do no boarding actions like shooting muskets while moving is odd. It might work from a PVP perspective, but I don't find it fun or realistic.

3. Multiplayer. Hear me out. Ok not really feature I'd want to see changed in naval action, but I think that naval action would have been a much better game as a single player OW experience with co op perhaps. This game has been in development for a long time and it is dragged down into mediocrity by the efforts to balance multiplayer PVP. Countless cool features had to be abandoned because players would abuse them, and countless horrible ones introduced to quell player abuses. Every time I think of a cool mechanic to suggest, I have to abandon the thought because it would be exploitable with alts or by large groups of unscrupulous players. I would much rather a naval action where all the time spent on the impossible task of balancing things is instead spent on game mechanics that add depth, realism, or just fun. Again, its not something I would want to change about naval action, its something I'd like to see in a different title or would have liked to have seen from the start. I respect the decisions the devs have made as its clear naval action was never meant to be the ideal game for me.

[admin]

 

On 2/8/2020 at 6:36 PM, rediii said:

The overpopulation of redoutables makes it necessary to own the DLC yourself because right now only sailing 2nd rates makes sense because everything else gets killed by redoutables.

First this

 

Second
Overpopulation does not come from thin air. The ship is worth more than a game. Of course people spend a lot on their hobbies (guns, hunting, boats) and our fans are no exception. 

But it seems to me that this is a clear signal that players will pay anything to avoid shipbuilding (if they are only interested in pvp rvr game)?
 

 

 

 

[admin]

On 2/8/2020 at 9:33 AM, Smoothie said:

rare permits

Will be increasing their supply and ways to get them to keep them expensive but not rare rare. 

[admin]

On 2/8/2020 at 11:09 AM, Dark123 said:

pbs against raiders. thats good for pve server but not for the war (pvp) server

Dont know yet.
Maybe they should not attack strongest ports only bringing some diversity and maybe they should prefer attacking at the borders too. 

[AeRoTR]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

But it seems to me that this is a clear signal that players will pay anything to avoid shipbuilding (if they are only interested in pvp rvr game).

There is no meaning to crafting ships from normal woods while you can redeem your DLC with seasoned woods and some random port bonus.

Crafting ships with seasoned woods is very very hard for casuals and small clans.

[admin]

On 2/8/2020 at 12:43 PM, Gregory Rainsborough said:

The accuracy of stern chasers compared to bow chasers. I don't understand why the rear is so much more accurate, it only benefits those who run away.

well that was the point.. Because majority of chases are when you are being ganked. Having better accuracy from stern allows you to escape in more cases. 

 

[admin]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:01 PM, Montagnes said:

Not having available repairs in your outposts which discourages leaving port.

The hassle of moving repairs from one place to another is real.

Well, but does not it give crafters a profession?

[FKL 1982]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

well that was the point.. Because majority of chases are when you are being ganked. Having better accuracy from stern allows you to escape in more cases. 

 

Limited chain negates that, and in my experience it's usually players who run from a 1v1 that benefit from it more than those who are being chased by 5 ships

[AeRoTR]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

Well, but does not it give crafters a profession?

I never craft repairs, I buy them from capitals at npc price. No need to hussle with buildings/farms just for repairs as you can easly make reals in the game. I will never buy repairs for 500 reals each, unless it is very urgent. I will use tylnx fleet and bring enough repairs for the needed outpost.

[admin]

12 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

There is no meaning to crafting ships from normal woods while you can redeem your DLC with seasoned woods and some random port bonus.

Crafting ships with seasoned woods is very very hard for casuals and small clans.

We will increase supply of seasoned woods
But overall your view is incorrect.

• Seasoned woods have nothing to do with it.
  • We had time when you could by a very strong shallow water DLC ship. And we did not have seasoned woods then. 
  • Everybody was sailing in a herc and xebec - whithout seasoned woods.
  • This happened again after rratvisan 
  • We did not have seasoned woods then
• Seasoned woods is a minor bonus. People do not buy Redoutable because it has seasoned woods with it. People buy Redoutable because it saves their precious time and allows them to have meaningful PVP without thinking about hauling, doubloons, permits etc. Same as it happened with hercules, rratvisan

If HMS Victory (old edition) with Balconies DLC will be made crafteable without seasoned woods it will STILL be a most populated ship in the open world.
And the bonus.. seasoned wood bonus is minor and can be negated by port bonuses and upgrades. 
 

 

[Sea Archer]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Your view is incorrect.

• Seasoned woods have nothing to do with it.
  • We had time when you could by a very strong shallow water DLC ship. And we did not have seasoned woods then. 
  • Everybody was sailing in a herc and xebec - whithout seasoned woods.
  • This happened again after rratvisan 
  • We did not have seasoned woods then
• Seasoned woods is a minor bonus. People do not buy Redoutable because it has seasoned woods with it. People buy Redoutable because it saves their precious time and allows them to have meaningful PVP without thinking about hauling, doubloons, permits etc. Same as it happened with hercules, rratvisan

If HMS Victory (old edition) with Balconies DLC will be made crafteable without seasoned woods it will STILL be a most populated ship in the open world.
 

You are right, people will buy powerful ships, seasoned woods or not, but the little difference between seasoned woods and the usual crafting woods makes the life for crafting players much harder, since it gets more and more difficult to compete with dlc ships.

The Redoubtable is so successful, since it is a very powerful 3rd rate, without any crafting effort. Many people buy it, since they cannot pump out a similar ship by crafting every day. 

There are two kinds of players in the game, the ones who like crafting and the one who don't. 

With the Redoubtable, imo the balance between both got lost, even if it is a commercial success. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

17 minutes ago, admin said:

Well, but does not it give crafters a profession?

Crafting anything but ships doesn't give XP.  Some crafters need xp to rank up and craft more things.  While it can be profitable if you have the labor hours, but if you don't than you can't really craft enough to keep up with demand.   Please give xp for crafting other items other than ships.  It doesn't have to be a lot.  Just like xp for sailing should go to ships too, cause it would be pretty much the only way most trade ships gain XP.  Maybe lock it to only trade ships gain xp this way.   Other wise it's annoying trying to grind out slots on a tanked out Indianman.  LGV isn't so bad, but really no one hardly uses it for trade runs any more.....and if your in a trader brig your pretty much dead any way.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

You are right, people will buy powerful ships, seasoned woods or not, but the little difference between seasoned woods and the usual crafting woods makes the life for crafting players much harder, since it gets more and more difficult to compete with dlc ships.

The Redoubtable is so successful, since it is a very powerful 3rd rate, without any crafting effort. Many people buy it, since they cannot pump out a similar ship by crafting every day. 

There are two kinds of players in the game, the ones who like crafting and the one who don't. 

With the Redoubtable, imo the balance between both got lost, even if it is a commercial success. 

One thing that they could do to make crafting profitable over the DLC's is allow a crafter to pick the random perk or have no random perk for DLC ships (prefer the crafter part) remember back when you max out crafting level 50 we got to make master craft mods and ships.  There was a reason to rank up in crafting cause you crafted better stuff.  I should be getting more Gold and purple ships or ships with perks cause I'm level 7 crafter over some one that is say level 3.  I know they said they didn't want to touch the perk system, but I still think the best way to do something with perks is to make them tied with your ranks.  As you gain crafting levels you gain that perk for light ships, frigates and SOL's when can craft all ships of that type.    Other than crafting ports bonus there is no other perks to crafting ships over the instant click SEASON WOODS DLC ship that doesn't cost millions to craft and can be very easly replaced cause the permits aren't locked behind very rare RNG loot drops.

[AeRoTR]

30 minutes ago, admin said:

But overall your view is incorrect.

I disagree;

Look at the speed boost (0.11kts), thickness boost(6-7 cm), crew protection(%10) etc, they equal to a cartagena mod, or some other mods.

If I craft a Christian with teak/wo and add some cartegane etc., it can be equal to Redoutable with seasoned wood without mods, which you can redeem everyday. Let's remember the Christian is a 2nd rate, so I am not even talking about other 3rd rates. Same goes with Ratvissan compared to other 4th rates.

Why should I craft and sail a Christian or Agamemnon, if I can redeem seasoned Redoutable/Ratvisan.

Edited February 10, 2020 by AeRoTR

[admin]

11 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

 

Why should I craft and sail a Christian or Agamemnon, if I can redeem seasoned Redoutable/Ratvisan.

 

Why should you craft if you can capture first rates from NPCs.. They are stronger than Agamnenon S with any port bonuses.

[Malcolm3]

1 hour ago, admin said:

But it seems to me that this is a clear signal that players will pay anything to avoid shipbuilding (if they are only interested in pvp rvr game)?

Certainly no, because of the following

1. Crafting Ships-of-the-Line is quite expensive process, especially combined with Seasoned Woods and random permits (so random)
2. Without such ships you can't effectively participate in RvR nowadays, because capped SoLs are suitable for screening only
3. Redoutable stats are much like current 2nd rates.

To cut it short - Redoutable is very accessible and strong 3rd rate, especially as compared with his sistership Implacable (random permit and (S) woods). Also Redoutable was very much awaited ship.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Malcolm3

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, admin said:

We will increase supply of seasoned woods
But overall your view is incorrect.

• Seasoned woods have nothing to do with it.
  • We had time when you could by a very strong shallow water DLC ship. And we did not have seasoned woods then. 
  • Everybody was sailing in a herc and xebec - whithout seasoned woods.
  • This happened again after rratvisan 
  • We did not have seasoned woods then
• Seasoned woods is a minor bonus. People do not buy Redoutable because it has seasoned woods with it. People buy Redoutable because it saves their precious time and allows them to have meaningful PVP without thinking about hauling, doubloons, permits etc. Same as it happened with hercules, rratvisan

If HMS Victory (old edition) with Balconies DLC will be made crafteable without seasoned woods it will STILL be a most populated ship in the open world.
And the bonus.. seasoned wood bonus is minor and can be negated by port bonuses and upgrades. 
 

 

Wasa felt like the most sailed PvP ship before redoutable hit NA. Now she is obsolete. Wasa was so successful because she wasn't hidden behind a permit. labour hours and mats were the only bottleneck. When the current victory would be permit free her appearance would increase as well.

Regarding crafting one of the most annoying parts is it's plane boring. Building slots are limited (which forces you to use ALTs) in order to be able to craft ships or rely on other players gathering mats for you which by all means doesn't feel as rewarding as producing sub parts.

Cannons and repairs are the only craftable goods that are worth making and selling and they give no xp ontop it's the only thing 1 player can do alone without buying an alt (2 building slots get blocked by forge and workshop for that already)

Personally I use mostly dlc ships because it's not possible to build a ship of that variety on your own without the use of an alt. Whenever it's grp effort it means waiting. Waiting for one guy to hand over white oak etc. 

In a way we are all selfish and how you can be more selfish than with a dlc ship?

Edited February 10, 2020 by z4ys

[Montagnes]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Well, but does not it give crafters a profession?

It does to a certain extent. Repairs and cannons don't give any XP, which was a bad change imo. 

Repair kits as they were before were better encouraging pvp. And perhaps those repair kits could be crafted by players, so you don't remove that source of income to some players.

The advantage of old repair kits were they could be towed with the ship and refilled at every port. 

The question here is what do we prefer: spending hours sailing from one place to another with a trader loaded with repairs (quite risky also) or having fun in a pvp fight.

[Kubrat]

Well if you have a good clan, the supply chain works without necessarily relying on alts, although alts do make it easier. 

My Wasa selling business is now defunct, I accept that. They are not worth the price of the doubloons now. So be it, the game changes and you adjust. I have already found another way to make money.

So long as the good outweighs the bad it is not an issue, and no one can deny that the good has significantly outweighed the bad in the last few months, in spite of all the panic at the time.

Personally I get a lot of satisfaction making sure the lower level players in my clan never have to worry about replacing a ship. Ships are meant to be put at risk, and sunk a lot before you start doing the sinking. The Redoubtable is not going to stop me crafting ships, it  is just going to stop me crafting Wasa.  the trade-off is worth it.

 

[Kubrat]

2 minutes ago, Montagnes said:

The question here is what do we prefer: spending hours sailing from one place to another with a trader loaded with repairs (quite risky also) or having fun in a pvp fight.

Or just buy them from people that prefer to play the trading game and make money. Why make the game two-dimensional? The more layers in the experience the better.

[Montagnes]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Will be increasing their supply and ways to get them to keep them expensive but not rare rare. 

There are too many ships considered rare in the game.

For example, shallow ships as rattlesnake, rattlesnake heavy, niagara, renomee. Almost half of the shallow ships are behind rare permits (!).

Someone who is looking for another permit must invest hours completing missions before RNG provides it. People doing mindless farming instead of having fun against other players.

[Montagnes]

14 minutes ago, Kubrat said:

Or just buy them from people that prefer to play the trading game and make money. Why make the game two-dimensional? The more layers in the experience the better.

Not every port will have the repairs or the amount you are looking for.

I'm not talking here only about free ports.

It is not about simplifying the game, it is about saving time and encouraging leaving port fully prepared to have fun.

[z4ys]

3 minutes ago, Kubrat said:

Well if you have a good clan, the supply chain works without necessarily relying on alts

 

Curse of NA. "Good clan" with other words "organized clan" how many are their 1 or 3 in each nation?

Whenever it comes to grp activities NA utter fails. There is nothing more boring than grp activities. Its not because of the activity itself. Port raids, privateer fleets etc are actual fun but the amount of manpower (always 6+ people and all the waiting resulting of that many people is so annoying)

For example I started a discord grp with 12 people to better organize privateer fleets. Those 12 players are very active player still we cant get grps going or when we are lucky it looks most of the time like this:

3 people sitting in port waiting for 2 or 3 others to arrive. Those 3 people cant do other stuff while waiting because if they would then the other 2 who will come late will wait too or the grp implodes because 2 decided to pvp/pve and are now in a battle for 1h. Something that takes 1h 30 gets this way extented to 3h. And for me thats the most annoying part of NA.

I have so many hours logged for NA and I bet a lot of them are hours waiting for other players to get rdy.

Furthermore you cannot write "Looking for players/grp for activity xy" in nation chat because loose lips sink ships.