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GB's withdrawl from the swedish alliance (and reason of)


John Sheppard

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OMG i'm so fed up with swedish crying about GB "backstabing" them . In fact they don't shut up about it lol . They like to twist facts and forget others so much that it wants to make people puke
I'm tired of writing this over and over again only for some swedish troll to grab onto one phrase and twist it out of context , ignoring the rest of the argument(s)

If you disagree consider explaining why exactly, like a structured debate with logical arguments and not just "this is BS" which does not explain why you hold a certain point of view, and which exactly arguments here you disagree with .

Again this is not a post of brits complaining about what the swedes have done but rather a post aimed at informing people, who have heard only one side of the story , about what drove the brits to this controversial decision.

This WILL be lengthy and if you can't be bothered to devote 5 minutes to quickly read over a post then consider NOT posting any snarky comments and look like an ignorant fool , who doesn't contribute anything to the topic . Thank you for you understanding

So why DID GB leave the swedish alliance REALLY?

Let me start from the beginning , how this alliance came to be in the first place
Havoc (along with many others) wanted to overthrow the russians as they felt they are too powerfull and should be counterbalanced 

GB was approached to join the alliance . As we had already been at war with russians and losing we shared our concerns that if we enter the alliance we will serve only as a meat shield against the russians who will focus us even more (atleast till that point their attention was split)  SPOILER it happened exactly that way

Russians came down from tumbado like an unstoppable force and started taking every port in their path . When we asked help from our swedish and dutch allies we were met by comments like "We can't afford the outposts you've got to deal with it on your own . But do come screen for us tomorrow" or "WTF you crying about??? you haven't lost your crafting port yet so shut up and go flip port X" 
Only by a fluke accidnet /miracle we managed to NOT lose Salamanca (a port we would never had been able to re-rake as it is very easy to defend) only due to some russian captains paniking and joining the PB few seconds early which then allowed our screening fleet (which untill then did not have enough BR) to tag the rest into battle which was very costly for GB. The swedes did make a reluctant appearance with a bunch of 3rd rates and a 2nd rate or 2 , in total i believe it was 7 (seven) swedes "Screening" with possibly 2 more joining later

After that we started losing ports one after the other yet our "allies" were nowhere to be found we informed our "allies" that if nothing will be done to assist us we will be forced to capitulate to the russians as they are offering us reasonable terms and the huge effort of building up all the ports was fresh on everybody's mind. The swedes ignored this , so few days later we signed a truce with RUS with the entire area around of our crafting waters being protected and RvR allowed on certain ports like Bluefields to train GB players . The only request Russia made was that we do not screen for their enemies in offensive port battles . EVEN tho some GB captains ignored this , the russians did not break the truce recognizing the impact of taking such a large nation as GB out of the game.

The swedish and other allies met this turn of events with , quite francly , hilarious outrage and mockery saying that we should had consulted/informed them before withdrawing from the alliance and saying that it was a mistake since they would apparently come screen for us IF the russians had reached our crafting port . Ofc this was all just talk as when the russians came within 15K of belize to try do hostility missions , our allies were never there . I'm sure it would be just like the other times when they said "we don't have time" "it's a bad day" "we're not in the mood" or "we don't have outposts there and it's too far to sail" . We informed them that our truce with the russians is only temporary untill we regain our depleted strength (as scraping combat marks to make 1st rates was very difficult at the time) to fight them once more (and we had made that thing clear to the russians aswell and they were fine with it since they wanted REAL PBs) 


Fast forward few weeks and @Captain Cid's crew joins GB and specially thanks to @Shocktrooper Basteyy's excellent leadership we start fighting and actually winning against russians for the first time. We resume active role in the alliance helping and screening where we can , sometimes even when it's only few minutes after our own port battles yet we begin to notice some strange patterns.
For example :
On more than one occasion when going to attack a russian port , our screening fleet was attacked by duch or swedish players and when we ask our allies why is this , what's going on , again we get excuses like "it was not directly like in front of the port you are attacking , it was 50k away therefore it's free for all OW PvP". We argued that it's not coz this is part of RvR operations and hinders the ability of our PB fleet to get into the actuall PB. We were silenced with a very dismissive attitude but we swalled it for the good of the common goal

In time this sort of things kept happening even going as far in some cases of us going help screen our allies into their PB , then on the way back our screening fleet gets attacked by other "allies" . Again gets called PvP . When we bring it up we get dismissed again. We swallow it for the common good aswell...

Multiple more offences of our "allies" attacking our screening or hostility fleets sometimes already very damaged and running back home with russians on our tails , then getting tagged and finished off by "allies" who were supposed to help us against the russian fleet chassing us but no they choose the easy target. Again we are crazy and it's just PvP and no OW Pvp agreement is feasible . We swallow this aswell for the common goal

Multiple instances of reporting our position , heading , fleet composition and possible intention in gobal chat in-game and we dare ask our allies why they did it? "WTF don't over-react it was just a joke , oh you got all killed? LOL well it's war , stop crying and deal with it , you can't tell us what we can and can't type wherever we want. But do come screen tomorrow" We said ok but don't do it again pls we're losing ships for no reason . They laughed at us....

Soon after 15-20 , sometimes more swedes camping outside SdC in big ships became a usual sight , this being discussed multiple times in nation and decided to try not fight them to avoid generating further hostility between us . In any case at the times, our best players were usually busy either flipping or defending our ports
We asked the swedes multiple times to stop coming with such big numbers everyday as it was causing an increasingly problematic logistical issue not to mention that a lot of people became unwilling to help the swedes . We informed them about it on multiple occasions but the swedes chose to instead mock and insult us for suggesting such a thing "OW agreements are impossible only idiots would think one is possible"  We suggested them alternative , more productive targets like Esteros / Tumbado just like we had a lot of people ganking russians there succesfully but again no . 
We even asked if the swedes could arrange ONE day per week that they would NOT come with so many people in front of our crafting port so our crafters could peacefully move around stuff and build us more ships to throw at the russian ship-grinder . Aparently this one small compromise was an outrageous request so all we got was more insults and mockery for our trouble. 

Me personally and others had repeatedly asked the swedes to find a compromise for those issues and informed them that the "balance of hate" (for lack of a better description) was shifting from hating the russians to hating the swedes coz atleast the russians were honest about things and were not causing us so much damage as the swedes. We were ignored and mocked as usual.
As time progressed and things continue to be discussed in our own nation and ,contrary to popular request, i informed the swedes that 70% of the british clans have decided to terminate their alliance and will no longer help screen for sweden , on the contrary will be going to war if the above situation persists, so all the claims of GB suddenly backstabing their great allies , sweden is a total lie fabricated by HAVOC as can be proven by the screenshot
 

Even this was met with insults and mockery as usual . So it was decided to screw the swedes and go to war . I was not allowed to formaly declare it , as it was felt that i had given more than ample warning and as it  turned out the swedes knew about it already due to some people having lose tongues so them acting all surprised is total BS . They were on scene to stop the hostility within minutes.

As myself and others have said this was a predictable move , if you treat someone like a dog and beat them too much they will bite you in the ass . In our case we did issue many warnings.

The deciding point and what pushed us over the edge was when @rediii himself ordered us to do a multiflip the next day ,which we agreed to without any protest ,so we went out and did as ordered . However while we were grinding hostility we noticed that we are alone in doing so and that there was no other hostility generated by the swedes on the ports they were supposed to flip . When we contacted the swedes to inquire about the reasons for this turn of events we were met by a dismissive "we simply didn't feel like it". The fun thing is that we saw 20 swedes being reported outside SDC in lineships and soon combat news filled up with swedes sinking GB noobs and traders (as pretty much every experienced player was bussy with the multiflip). We had received no prior communication from the swedes to inform us about the cancelation of the multiflip.

Contrary to rediii's assertion and lies LAMA was one of the leading clans advocating for the end of the swedish alliance and consequent attack on them. To prove that redii is a lying little wench once and for all i will share some screenshot from british discord that i managed to find with a quick search and hope that my friends in prussia will forgive me as this was certainly not aimed against them but rather prove my point

As you can see i have provided irrefutable proof unlike rediii's lies which he regularly tells to his "allies" to make them follow him and ofc they did not have any way to verify that what he says is true so i'm mostly making this post for them. I had been contacted by some swedish captains asking why GB is so stubborn and won't agree to peace but when i explain to them what really happened they were surprised as apparently it was all presented very differently to them

I also attach a screenshot of Cid saying much of the same things i'm saying here in the forums 
On the issue about why LAMA left GB , perhaps you should ask them directly if you really wanna know but all i will say is that there were other important factors involved and it was not because GB attacked sweden without their consent like rediii likes to claim

Also in contrast i would like to point out how funny it is when some BASTD guys after being fed up with the state of affairs and while we were still allies , organized a little ganking group in swedish waters which was meant again with outrage for tha one single time . However when the swedes did it for weeks it was fine lol. Also everyone remembers rediii's post in Tribunal where he complained because some brits kept him in battle for 2 hours to bring heavier ships and the incrediblue metric ton of insults our diplomats received in the joint discord aftewards for that one battle :D . Such comments as "you've wasted our time how dare you do that as our ally" were especually hilarious when you consider that they had ganked our hostility fleet before which had to first get organized , sail out to russian port , do hostility mission , get ganked by the russians and fight our way out , sail back fighting multiple battles , just to be ganked by swedish "allies" for another hour or so . Total? 4hours? Did we make tribunal? did we start a post on forum complaining about "backstabing" ? no we simple asked the swedes why and told them it's not nice

But the most funny part of all is this :
Sweden : OW PvP agreements are impossible and you are idiots for even thinking otherwise
Also Sweden : We will offer you peace but you have to agree to non PvP agreement in crafting region (3 itterations of their peace offers included this condition)
Which is ironic coz this is what GB has been asking from them ALL ALONG and if they had not been selfish uhmmm.. certain male genital organs , this war would had never happened , so our position is that this war happened because of the swedes . 


As a closing statment i would like to say that it should be obvious that english is not my first language and ofc there are mistakes. Hopefully this post is good enough to convey the main issues.
Thanks for reading this longer than intended post

[ private conversations screenshots removed ] . Hethwill, the moderation team

Edited by John Sheppard: Fine i have cropped the screenshot to only show my message and Cid's post here on the forums which does not vialoate any rules and thefore isn't supposed to be removed @Hethwill

war warning.png

cid.png

Edited by John Sheppard
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8 hours ago, John Sheppard said:

OMG i'm so fed up with swedish crying about GB "backstabing" them . In fact they don't shut up about it lol . They like to twist facts and forget others so much that it wants to make people puke
I'm tired of writing this over and over again only for some swedish troll to grab onto one phrase and twist it out of context , ignoring the rest of the argument(s)

If you disagree consider explaining why exactly, like a structured debate with logical arguments and not just "this is BS" which does not explain why you hold a certain point of view, and which exactly arguments here you disagree with .

Again this is not a post of brits complaining about what the swedes have done but rather a post aimed at informing people, who have heard only one side of the story , about what drove the brits to this controversial decision.

This WILL be lengthy and if you can't be bothered to devote 5 minutes to quickly read over a post then consider NOT posting any snarky comments and look like an ignorant fool , who doesn't contribute anything to the topic . Thank you for you understanding

So why DID GB leave the swedish alliance REALLY?

Let me start from the beginning , how this alliance came to be in the first place
Havoc (along with many others) wanted to overthrow the russians as they felt they are too powerfull and should be counterbalanced 

GB was approached to join the alliance . As we had already been at war with russians and losing we shared our concerns that if we enter the alliance we will serve only as a meat shield against the russians who will focus us even more (atleast till that point their attention was split)  SPOILER it happened exactly that way

Russians came down from tumbado like an unstoppable force and started taking every port in their path . When we asked help from our swedish and dutch allies we were met by comments like "We can't afford the outposts you've got to deal with it on your own . But do come screen for us tomorrow" or "WTF you crying about??? you haven't lost your crafting port yet so shut up and go flip port X" 
Only by a fluke accidnet /miracle we managed to NOT lose Salamanca (a port we would never had been able to re-rake as it is very easy to defend) only due to some russian captains paniking and joining the PB few seconds early which then allowed our screening fleet (which untill then did not have enough BR) to tag the rest into battle which was very costly for GB. The swedes did make a reluctant appearance with a bunch of 3rd rates and a 2nd rate or 2 , in total i believe it was 7 (seven) swedes "Screening" with possibly 2 more joining later

After that we started losing ports one after the other yet our "allies" were nowhere to be found we informed our "allies" that if nothing will be done to assist us we will be forced to capitulate to the russians as they are offering us reasonable terms and the huge effort of building up all the ports was fresh on everybody's mind. The swedes ignored this , so few days later we signed a truce with RUS with the entire area around of our crafting waters being protected and RvR allowed on certain ports like Bluefields to train GB players . The only request Russia made was that we do not screen for their enemies in offensive port battles . EVEN tho some GB captains ignored this , the russians did not break the truce recognizing the impact of taking such a large nation as GB out of the game.

The swedish and other allies met this turn of events with , quite francly , hilarious outrage and mockery saying that we should had consulted/informed them before withdrawing from the alliance and saying that it was a mistake since they would apparently come screen for us IF the russians had reached our crafting port . Ofc this was all just talk as when the russians came within 15K of belize to try do hostility missions , our allies were never there . I'm sure it would be just like the other times when they said "we don't have time" "it's a bad day" "we're not in the mood" or "we don't have outposts there and it's too far to sail" . We informed them that our truce with the russians is only temporary untill we regain our depleted strength (as scraping combat marks to make 1st rates was very difficult at the time) to fight them once more (and we had made that thing clear to the russians aswell and they were fine with it since they wanted REAL PBs) 


Fast forward few weeks and @Captain Cid's crew joins GB and specially thanks to @Shocktrooper Basteyy's excellent leadership we start fighting and actually winning against russians for the first time. We resume active role in the alliance helping and screening where we can , sometimes even when it's only few minutes after our own port battles yet we begin to notice some strange patterns.
For example :
On more than one occasion when going to attack a russian port , our screening fleet was attacked by duch or swedish players and when we ask our allies why is this , what's going on , again we get excuses like "it was not directly like in front of the port you are attacking , it was 50k away therefore it's free for all OW PvP". We argued that it's not coz this is part of RvR operations and hinders the ability of our PB fleet to get into the actuall PB. We were silenced with a very dismissive attitude but we swalled it for the good of the common goal

In time this sort of things kept happening even going as far in some cases of us going help screen our allies into their PB , then on the way back our screening fleet gets attacked by other "allies" . Again gets called PvP . When we bring it up we get dismissed again. We swallow it for the common good aswell...

Multiple more offences of our "allies" attacking our screening or hostility fleets sometimes already very damaged and running back home with russians on our tails , then getting tagged and finished off by "allies" who were supposed to help us against the russian fleet chassing us but no they choose the easy target. Again we are crazy and it's just PvP and no OW Pvp agreement is feasible . We swallow this aswell for the common goal

Multiple instances of reporting our position , heading , fleet composition and possible intention in gobal chat in-game and we dare ask our allies why they did it? "WTF don't over-react it was just a joke , oh you got all killed? LOL well it's war , stop crying and deal with it , you can't tell us what we can and can't type wherever we want. But do come screen tomorrow" We said ok but don't do it again pls we're losing ships for no reason . They laughed at us....

Soon after 15-20 , sometimes more swedes camping outside SdC in big ships became a usual sight , this being discussed multiple times in nation and decided to try not fight them to avoid generating further hostility between us . In any case at the times, our best players were usually busy either flipping or defending our ports
We asked the swedes multiple times to stop coming with such big numbers everyday as it was causing an increasingly problematic logistical issue not to mention that a lot of people became unwilling to help the swedes . We informed them about it on multiple occasions but the swedes chose to instead mock and insult us for suggesting such a thing "OW agreements are impossible only idiots would think one is possible"  We suggested them alternative , more productive targets like Esteros / Tumbado just like we had a lot of people ganking russians there succesfully but again no . 
We even asked if the swedes could arrange ONE day per week that they would NOT come with so many people in front of our crafting port so our crafters could peacefully move around stuff and build us more ships to throw at the russian ship-grinder . Aparently this one small compromise was an outrageous request so all we got was more insults and mockery for our trouble. 

Me personally and others had repeatedly asked the swedes to find a compromise for those issues and informed them that the "balance of hate" (for lack of a better description) was shifting from hating the russians to hating the swedes coz atleast the russians were honest about things and were not causing us so much damage as the swedes. We were ignored and mocked as usual.
As time progressed and things continue to be discussed in our own nation and ,contrary to popular request, i informed the swedes that 70% of the british clans have decided to terminate their alliance and will no longer help screen for sweden , on the contrary will be going to war if the above situation persists, so all the claims of GB suddenly backstabing their great allies , sweden is a total lie fabricated by HAVOC as can be proven by the screenshot
 

Even this was met with insults and mockery as usual . So it was decided to screw the swedes and go to war . I was not allowed to formaly declare it , as it was felt that i had given more than ample warning and as it  turned out the swedes knew about it already due to some people having lose tongues so them acting all surprised is total BS . They were on scene to stop the hostility within minutes.

As myself and others have said this was a predictable move , if you treat someone like a dog and beat them too much they will bite you in the ass . In our case we did issue many warnings.

The deciding point and what pushed us over the edge was when @rediii himself ordered us to do a multiflip the next day ,which we agreed to without any protest ,so we went out and did as ordered . However while we were grinding hostility we noticed that we are alone in doing so and that there was no other hostility generated by the swedes on the ports they were supposed to flip . When we contacted the swedes to inquire about the reasons for this turn of events we were met by a dismissive "we simply didn't feel like it". The fun thing is that we saw 20 swedes being reported outside SDC in lineships and soon combat news filled up with swedes sinking GB noobs and traders (as pretty much every experienced player was bussy with the multiflip). We had received no prior communication from the swedes to inform us about the cancelation of the multiflip.

Contrary to rediii's assertion and lies LAMA was one of the leading clans advocating for the end of the swedish alliance and consequent attack on them. To prove that redii is a lying little wench once and for all i will share some screenshot from british discord that i managed to find with a quick search and hope that my friends in prussia will forgive me as this was certainly not aimed against them but rather prove my point

 

As you can see i have provided irrefutable proof unlike rediii's lies which he regularly tells to his "allies" to make them follow him and ofc they did not have any way to verify that what he says is true so i'm mostly making this post for them. I had been contacted by some swedish captains asking why GB is so stubborn and won't agree to peace but when i explain to them what really happened they were surprised as apparently it was all presented very differently to them

I also attach a screenshot of Cid saying much of the same things i'm saying here in the forums 
On the issue about why LAMA left GB , perhaps you should ask them directly if you really wanna know but all i will say is that there were other important factors involved and it was not because GB attacked sweden without their consent like rediii likes to claim

Also in contrast i would like to point out how funny it is when some BASTD guys after being fed up with the state of affairs and while we were still allies , organized a little ganking group in swedish waters which was meant again with outrage for tha one single time . However when the swedes did it for weeks it was fine lol. Also everyone remembers rediii's post in Tribunal where he complained because some brits kept him in battle for 2 hours to bring heavier ships and the incrediblue metric ton of insults our diplomats received in the joint discord aftewards for that one battle :D . Such comments as "you've wasted our time how dare you do that as our ally" were especually hilarious when you consider that they had ganked our hostility fleet before which had to first get organized , sail out to russian port , do hostility mission , get ganked by the russians and fight our way out , sail back fighting multiple battles , just to be ganked by swedish "allies" for another hour or so . Total? 4hours? Did we make tribunal? did we start a post on forum complaining about "backstabing" ? no we simple asked the swedes why and told them it's not nice

But the most funny part of all is this :
Sweden : OW PvP agreements are impossible and you are idiots for even thinking otherwise
Also Sweden : We will offer you peace but you have to agree to non PvP agreement in crafting region (3 itterations of their peace offers included this condition)
Which is ironic coz this is what GB has been asking from them ALL ALONG and if they had not been selfish uhmmm.. certain male genital organs , this war would had never happened , so our position is that this war happened because of the swedes . 


As a closing statment i would like to say that it should be obvious that english is not my first language and ofc there are mistakes. Hopefully this post is good enough to convey the main issues.
Thanks for reading this longer than intended post

 

 

 

Very well done written. Was great to read it 

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6 hours ago, rediii said:

LOOOOL are you screenshotting everything and making a directory for it? Screenshot says last monday. Thats from what, december?

Also nice out of context redii post:

 

So while in christmas truce I "ordered you" to do a flip?

How it actually looked like after christmas truce:

 

 

So how did the orders of me look like? 

 

 

 

 

 

That was the last day before Christmas truce. When exactly did I order hosti and we didnt do it but you did? Because after christmas truce you attacked us

 

Anyway I dont have time anymore atm... MIght comment more later. Maybe not though its too much bullshit to handle and too mcuh time needed to correct all the bullshit

No unfortunately i did not screenshot everything like Liam and silentwraith insults over the months coz i thought that yeah they are asholes but atleast you will uphold your honor . Obviously i was wrong .

Thank you for the screenshots they demonstrate perfectly some of my points :) That's exactly the dismissive tone we have been treated with from Liam and silentwraith for months , each time when we bring our concerns to you . Shut up and suck it up , oh btw will you come to screen/flip something tomorrow or keep complaining about how we treat you? Yet despite this (mostly LAMA) was still trying to justify your action in GB council and still get people to help you altho BASTD was pretty much pulled out from this BS at this point and were looking to screw you along with the majority of GB clans. You have only yourself to blame for this as you managed to force us to overcome our huge hatred for the russians and hate you even more than them . Congratulations!

And nice you chose those screenshots on the 23rd when we had barely enough people to fill a PB because of the holidays . What about all the other times we came to screen for you? both defensive and offensive PBs? We have been screening for you since before you joined sweden , If you remember attack on Santo Domingo as an example ?
What about all the attacks on Mugeres Conttoy where we consistently screened you in over the 3-4 attempts or however many it was that you needed to actually win the PB against the russians? We were even coming on your TS , left there without any information or contact and then being screemed at by some rude old dude (don't remember who it was) for not being in position lol. It was 25 of us . 5 groups of 5 people . And we screened out or scared off pretty much every russian that was in the area allowing your fleet to get into both ports . 
When have you EVER screened for us in such numbers?

You were coming to gank us when you were supposed to be flipping yes . Just as Cid said in my last screenshot it was about start to mid December . And that's when we decided we will have no more of your bullshit so BASTD ofc started to engage you in OW and call it PvP EXACTLY LIKE YOU HAD BEEN DOING LITERALLY 50k FROM RVR ACTIVE TARGETS. At which point you started to complain and open tribunal posts about us if you remember ;)

In case you did not notice , Frosty was trolling you by giving you pretty much copy pasted excuses that you had been giving us for months but i forgive you for not realizing it , it's hard to recogize your own image in the mirror sometimes . 

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by pasting the discord discussion spam . It doesn't have any valid points except that we didn't outright declare war on you and i will give this to you . Yes that was bad and i wanted to do it the honourable way but i was not allowed by the rest of brits who wanted to surprise attack you , then give you some made up excuses lifted from your own excuse book . Basicly we wanted to give you some of your own treatment . 
There was literally nobody who felt any sympathy for you in GB and that's saying something . The only thing some people had problem with was the way this war was NOT declared but it makes very little difference coz you had ample warning that this MIGHT be coming . My screenshot was not the first time you were warned

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4 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

Actually I think you are wrong on that point. Think @rediii is the same, that is atleast the impression, those of us that have played for years, in the DK/NG nation have. Different is they use to have a @sveno in Sweden.

You saying he was always like this? I stand corrected then my appologies for that point

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6 hours ago, rediii said:

LOOOOL are you screenshotting everything and making a directory for it? Screenshot says last monday. Thats from what, december?

Also nice out of context redii post:

 

So while in christmas truce I "ordered you" to do a flip?

How it actually looked like after christmas truce:

 

 

So how did the orders of me look like? 

 

 

 

 

 

That was the last day before Christmas truce. When exactly did I order hosti and we didnt do it but you did? Because after christmas truce you attacked us

 

Anyway I dont have time anymore atm... MIght comment more later. Maybe not though its too much bullshit to handle and too mcuh time needed to correct all the bullshit

BASTD sailing around attacking swedes? Wow, that sounds huge. BASTD attacked a swedish Lynx at Tumbado and couldn´t know it´s been you scouting. You felt offended by THAT?? Man, this is really embarassing! 😭

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On a more serious note though: Yes you screened for us and no one ever tried denying that. Most of the RvR against Russia happened when we were still in Denmark, where we stuggeled motivating anyone outside our clan for any RvR which is the reason we left the nation. Yes we did not screen for you with 20 players like you did for us simply because there were not 20 players. We brought what we had to Salamanca as Danes and if I am not toaly mixing things up we were on TS with you for that one to try and organize. My point here is: Everyone seems to forget that we switched nation about 4 months ago, shortly after LAMA switched to GB.  In the months leading up to the Nation switch out clan was very very inactive, people had other things to do and were not playing the game. 

40 minutes ago, John Sheppard said:

And nice you chose those screenshots on the 23rd when we had barely enough people to fill a PB because of the holidays

So nice of you coosing a time where we had no people to come screening becuase they were not playing the game.

3 hours ago, John Sheppard said:

then on the way back our screening fleet gets attacked by other "allies" .

That must have happened more than 5 months ago now as I can not find any swede who rememebrs it, which suggests it was back when Denmark was involved. If it was later than that this complaint never reached any of us as no one knows of this happening. If it happened or not doesn't matter anyway so can we just cut it out of the conversation and focus on more recent events?

A lot of Events you keep bringing up here John, happened many many months ago. The past few weeks before we flooded the discord with people and started argueing about what happenes at Santiago were some of the most productive weeks of cooperation. GB got the whole Port au Prince region and Les Cayes out of it. Sweden gained a foothold at Tumbado and Russia lost it's ports close to Aves. 

You keep bringing up past events to justify your actions as a justification for what your actions. How about both sides just call it what it is: We have different views on how to play the game and neither side wanted a compromise. 

1 hour ago, John Sheppard said:

Yes that was bad and i wanted to do it the honourable way but i was not allowed by the rest of brits who wanted to surprise attack you , then give you some made up excuses lifted from your own excuse book .

And exactly this is why we call it a backstab. You broke the only unwritten agreement that existed dodging our questions about your position for a few days. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

BASTD sailing around attacking swedes? Wow, that sounds huge. BASTD attacked a swedish Lynx at Tumbado and couldn´t know it´s been you scouting. You felt offended by THAT?? Man, this is really embarassing! 😭

If you were not too lazy to reead the entire convo, this was our scout outside to figure out a way to get into a PB. 

Thanks for bringing it up becuase you made me look it up on the discord, following conversation is actually a great read!

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What the hell?

I was on Salamanca. Salamanca happened only a few days/weeks after the release, 7 months ago, SEVEN!

At that time, we had NO alliance with the dutch or the DANES-HAVOC. HAVOC was danish, not swedish, even though some danish captains came to help when they didn't have to. 

Get your facts right, kid. You are twisting reality to fit in your lame speech.

It is also disgusting when you pointed in the other thread you were joking with Northviking and Anolytic about Salamanca events. If you have such nice relationship, MOVE to russia to kiss their asses better. 

 

What I have seen so far is 2 leading clans that are completely useless at diplomacy, strategy and in combat. The shit show at Croata was a proof of your absolute incompetence.

 

This wall of text is pathethic, Sheppard.

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48 minutes ago, Mr Pellew said:

On a more serious note though: Yes you screened for us and no one ever tried denying that. Most of the RvR against Russia happened when we were still in Denmark, where we stuggeled motivating anyone outside our clan for any RvR which is the reason we left the nation. Yes we did not screen for you with 20 players like you did for us simply because there were not 20 players. We brought what we had to Salamanca as Danes and if I am not toaly mixing things up we were on TS with you for that one to try and organize. My point here is: Everyone seems to forget that we switched nation about 4 months ago, shortly after LAMA switched to GB.  In the months leading up to the Nation switch out clan was very very inactive, people had other things to do and were not playing the game. 

So nice of you coosing a time where we had no people to come screening becuase they were not playing the game.

That must have happened more than 5 months ago now as I can not find any swede who rememebrs it, which suggests it was back when Denmark was involved. If it was later than that this complaint never reached any of us as no one knows of this happening. If it happened or not doesn't matter anyway so can we just cut it out of the conversation and focus on more recent events?

A lot of Events you keep bringing up here John, happened many many months ago. The past few weeks before we flooded the discord with people and started argueing about what happenes at Santiago were some of the most productive weeks of cooperation. GB got the whole Port au Prince region and Les Cayes out of it. Sweden gained a foothold at Tumbado and Russia lost it's ports close to Aves. 

You keep bringing up past events to justify your actions as a justification for what your actions. How about both sides just call it what it is: We have different views on how to play the game and neither side wanted a compromise. 

And exactly this is why we call it a backstab. You broke the only unwritten agreement that existed dodging our questions about your position for a few days. 

 

 

Finally some constructive criticism. Pls substitite wherever i say "sweden" with "HAVOC" well i can be excused for thinking "sweden" whenever i think "rediii" those 2 things are kind of synonymous wouldn't you agree? Keeping track of who and exactly when switched nation to where is a bit hard for everybody on the server so i generally remember the people who were involved as it doesn't really matter which flag they're flying , it's the same people.

Yes true you didn't have 20 people in HAVOC at the time but there were other players in your nation . Maybe you couldn't motivate them fine . But how about when you switched to sweden? Our main problem and annoyance was that , you never seemed to have enough people to help us , always coming up with excuses . But somehow you could easily field 20 people usually in lineships (4th rates and up) to camp SdC . This seemed like total BS , you were fine with us being a meatshield and a toy. 

As to the claim that those were old issues thing is that it started to build up slowly over the month with us swallowing our pride everytime, listening to excuses . And thing is that this kind of behavior never really stopped, if anything it got worse.

I don't recall us camping your crafting waters with 20 players (and proportionally we should had brought more) almost everyday while saying "sorry we didn't feel like joining multiflip today we were too busy" . This would be pretty much a slap in the face and you did exactly that at beginning-mid december for a multiflip YOU asked (by you i mean rediii) . If we had done anything like that you would imidiatelly declare war on us just like you threatned to do when BASTD finally flipped and said they'll do to you what you've been doing to us. (which happened in the following days after the incident at hand and ultimately lead to the battle that redii opened up in tribunal) Thing is that this action (again to clarify , you asked organized a mutflip and we ended up being the only ones who did it, meanwhile when we asked you why you weren't participating in your own multiflip you said you didn't feel like and instaed were ganking our guys with 20 ppl who could had gone flipping something... WITHOUT telling us you were gonna call it off so you used us pretty much ) was the last drop in the cup that pushed the vast majority of the GB clans to say "hello kitty THE SWEEDES WE AREN'T HELPING ANYMORE ,WE WILL GIVE THEM SOME OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE" From that point relations deteriorated and the rest is as you know it. Some people kept trying to justify your action but they were met with very little sympathy

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1 hour ago, Beeekonda said:

So it was all about PVP eh?

tenor.gif

You obviously didn't read anything . No it was about the way we were being treated , like a dog with 0 respect or courtesy , being used as a meatshield and target practice at the same time .In fact we were treated with more respect by Anolytic and North despite our differences. We simply didn't want to put up with Swedish/Havoc bullshit anymore. If you expected us to keep on being your dogs well you were wrong

Edited by John Sheppard
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1 minute ago, John Sheppard said:

You obviously didn't read anything . No it was about the way we were being treated , like a dog with 0 respect or courtesy , being used as a meatshield and target practice at the same time . We simply didn't want to put up with the bullshit anymore

Sheppard. This is a game with many tense and stressful situations that lead to a whole array of reactions depending on the players education and age.

Complaining about a bunch of insults is childish. How many times have we seen british captains mockering at others in our own national chat?

Complaining about some pvp fights in Santiago de Cuba, one of the most exposed places due to its proximity to La Tortue is shocking.

 

Your friends Anolytic and Northviking are masters of deception, they say exactly what you want to hear. I know this as I met some old RDNN-REDS members (one of them was a guy called Hammerhad or something like that) who compared Northviking to a very polite Lord Vicious. 

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1 minute ago, Admiral Howe of Gibraltar said:

Your friends Anolytic and Northviking are masters of deception, they say exactly what you want to hear. I know this as I met some old RDNN-REDS members (one of them was a guy called Hammerhad or something like that) who compared Northviking to a very polite Lord Vicious. 

Hearsay is always best choice to prove your point. You can never be wrong with that, because if it is, it wasn't you anyway. 😂

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3 hours ago, John Sheppard said:

meanwhile when we asked you why you weren't participating in your own multiflip you said you didn't feel like and instaed were ganking our guys with 20 ppl who could had gone flipping something

I hate you for having me do this John but I went trough all discord msgs an I think I found what you are talking about: 

Some great drama happened between those two but I am afraid it is too much for the forums to handle

 

 

 

This is all the conversation on the discord about said multiflip. 

Yes we said we could flip a port and we did not (shame on us). But by what Cid said it seemed like you guys would not flip anything either.

So yes there was talk of a multiflip but it was not us who told you to flip ports, it was you saying you would flip ports and asked us to join. 

After this everyone agreed we should properly work together and organize another flip.

 

Who is right and who is wrong here si strongly debatable, but what did not happen is someone telling you to flip ports and then us not flipping ports ourselves.

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, TDK said:

It was the Russians using GB as target practice in the Caymans and elsewhere. Now they are using you as a meatshield, drawing attention away from themselves while you lose lots of ports to Sweden. But keep telling yourself Russia is a good ally lol.

It was the russians who demanded us to have port battles around Bluefields so they can train their new port battle fleet (with the VLTRA turncoats).

Are you denying this, Sheppard? Will you keep talking about meatshield bullshit after this shitty agreement with REDS to keep then entertained?

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4 hours ago, Smoothie said:

tl;dr

You got carried away. Did you ever consider to write a book? 

did you ?

 

i found it a very good read for a weekly newspaper like the ws gazette ...

also we need more info on the matter its very difficult to understand the point of view  from other sides sometimes 

quote of the day: "Tables turn always by thoughts, but you have to put them on paper. " 

Edited by Thonys
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