Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Audacious

Tested current game mechanics, oh my...

Recommended Posts

I had a nice opportunity to test NA game mechanics last night. As I was sailing I spotted 2 players from different Nations (Pirate + US)  sailing together killing traders. 2 4th rates (Wapen and Inger). They ganked an indiaman then another one, then we finally got a group to try to stop them. We hit them several times, but each time they were able to pull far away, their masts took no damage, their repairs made it impossible to scratch them, their speed was over 14. Their OS speed was too fast even for our fail fit fast boat, they took off every time leaving everyone behind. 

Question is, is there even a reason to come back and try to play when those with the best mods rule the seas? 4th rates outrun fast frigates , capture ships and take everything home safely. I do not believe anything changed, but it got worse. Get best seasoned wood, best speed mods and best quality ships and you can do whatever you want with only 1% risk in all scenarios, time to reinforce is still a major problem. Was thinking to pick up few DLCs , but I won't do it at this point. Game has major issues imho. 

Discuss. @admin

Edited by Audacious
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does seem that mods are too powerful right now, I'm not against them existing - I am against (particularly boarding mods) mods that seem to make it near on to impossible to lose against an unmodded, but otherwise equal opponent

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Celtic said:

It does seem that mods are too powerful right now, I'm not against them existing - I am against (particularly boarding mods) mods that seem to make it near on to impossible to lose against an unmodded, but otherwise equal opponent

I would say as rank increases mod specs should drop. We are in the era where 3rd rates gank fast frigates. 

ex. 

(BEST SPEED MOD, UNIVERSAL FOR ALL, RANK PENALTY APPLIED) 

5th rate +5 speed

4th rate +4 speed

3rd rate +3 speed

2nd rate +2 speed

1st rate +1 speed

Edited by Audacious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is interesting because some mods/books do have lower bonuses based on the better rat of the ship.

...but not all mods/books do. so there is some issue with it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To catch and stop extremely well prepared raiders, you need equally well prepared ships and captains. Replacing your lost traders is dirt cheap. For them replacing those ships would probably be extremely and painfully expensive, if they were as good as you describe them. 

Hercules can easily break over 14 knots. Get a few of those and you can catch up, chain one of them down and then bigger ships can catch up and sink. Fir/fir trincos with 3 relatively cheap speed upgrades can also easily go over 14 knots. 

Edited by Never
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Never said:

To catch and stop extremely well prepared raiders, you need equally well prepared ships and captains. Replacing your lost traders is dirt cheap. For them replacing those ships would probably be extremely and painfully expensive, if they were as good as you describe them. 

Hercules can easily break over 14 knots. Get a few of those and you can catch up, chain one of them down and then bigger ships can catch up and sink. Fir/fir trincos with 3 relatively cheap speed upgrades can also easily go over 14 knots. 

you clearly have no idea, even a pack of Hercs cant scratch Wappen and Inger pack with top mast and rep mods... yes they can catch up and do nothing. We had a speed fit wasa who unloaded 2 bar broadsides with little effect. They kept speeding and repairing. I dont care about sunk ships, I care about game balance that is absent here. 

Edited by Audacious
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Audacious said:

you clearly have no idea, even a pack of Hercs cant scratch Wappen and Inger pack with top mast and rep mods... yes they can catch up and do nothing. We had a speed fit wasa who unloaded 2 bar broadsides with little effect. They kept speeding and repairing. I dont care about sunk ships, I care about game balance that is absent here. 

Speed fitted herc/trinco etc.. don't turn to try demast at range.. just use front guns to take down sails,. (If you not within chain-shot range you did bad tag). Bring some other fast but heavier ships who can then do the dirty job once enemies are slowed down.

You might be doing a few things wrong. Next time record it and post the vid and i am sure alot of people can exactly pin-point what you can do to improve your chances😉.

I mean you said you tested last night, and already on forum blaming game balance/mechanics, abit quick to judge in my opinion.

 

Edited by Cursed Monkey
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Audacious said:

 We had a speed fit wasa who unloaded 2 bar broadsides with little effect. They kept speeding and repairing. I dont care about sunk ships, I care about game balance that is absent here. 

Wasa has 6 front guns for chasing, you do not turn and unload broadsides when chasing wapen/inger. Probably you missed alot and distance too far. Sorry but i just feeling you did many errors and/or weren't properly fitted ships. But again, post vid or so next time it will be easier to help.

Edited by Cursed Monkey
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we're nitpicking him a little hard here - mods are somewhat unbalanced as they currently exist. The degree to which they are unbalanced is debatable, but don't miss the forest for the tree's. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Audacious said:

you clearly have no idea, even a pack of Hercs cant scratch Wappen and Inger pack with top mast and rep mods... yes they can catch up and do nothing. We had a speed fit wasa who unloaded 2 bar broadsides with little effect. They kept speeding and repairing. I dont care about sunk ships, I care about game balance that is absent here. 

You failed to stop 2 guys and already blame the game instead of thinking about, maybe you did something wrong or maybe there is a better approach than what you did. 

As already mentioned above, you can chain them down with the smaller faster ships, you got some pretty big carros on even the smaller frigates or sloops, easily can chain down their sails. With longs in the front chasers you can slowly work their sails down with chains from behind them. 

You couldn't catch speed built 4th rates with a 3rd rate? That doesn't even require an explanation.  If they are that fast you need smaller ships, not bigger ones. If your broadsides did nothing to them, the Wasa probably messed up and did something wrong. There is nothing magic to deflect all incoming damage from properly aimed shots, even the best ships are vulnerable to chains. 

Nothing can protect sails from chains if you aim them well. Get enough ships to focus chain and he will be caught. Make sure to get a close tag on them, don't tag them from far away. If you see them in battle then go get a wind boost and wait for them to come out and you can get a perfect close tag on them. 

Also, you can't base testing on a unique special situation. Most people don't sail ships that are that well prepared. 

Edited by Never
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no one failed anything, those who hold best ships and mods will rule the seas end of story. New guys will be sinking and spending money on DLC boats, its all part of the grand design. 

 

Enjoy the game. 

Edited by Audacious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Audacious said:

no one failed anything, those who hold best  ships and mods will rule the seas end of story. New guys will be sinking and spending money on DLC boats, its all part of the grand design. 

 

Enjoy the game. 

That was and always will be the case in everything and everywhere, isn't it?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Audacious said:

their speed was over 14

It was 16.0 even

8 hours ago, Audacious said:

best seasoned wood

I wish 😥

8 hours ago, Audacious said:

whatever you want with only 1% risk in all scenarios

I was probably risking more than your whole gank fleet combined. I had three ships out there, my gold Wapen, the gold Wapen I lent Lionshaft, and the purple/fast Ingermanland I lent Railgun.

We did not only hit traders, there's a french Buc and purple Lo/Wo 3rd rate sitting at the bottom of the ocean too. Maybe @LionShaft got a screenshot. 

I think mods are currently well balanced if we look at the whole risk/reward situation. If you invest 10 million reals worth of mods into a ship, it has to pay off, atleast most the time. If not, gold ships and mods just become museum pieces, which sit in the docks to be marveled at but never used. I don't think anyone wants that.

Picture1.png

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

I had three ships out there, ... the gold Wapen I lent Lionshaft, 

You mean he sails in things other than basic cutters?🤣🤣

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see mods as overpowered, especially boarding and repair mods. 

I would definitely prefer to give the ships more hitpoints, but remove repairs. If they are needed, limit them to one sail and one hull repair.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

I see mods as overpowered, especially boarding and repair mods. 

I would definitely prefer to give the ships more hitpoints, but remove repairs. If they are needed, limit them to one sail and one hull repair.

I think limiting to 1 of each would be a bit too restrictive, especially given some NPC battles can require 5 sets or more. But I also think it unreasonable that a ship can carry enough repairs to have more than 3 fulls sets of sails (the one in use, a storm , or multiple new masts, or enough repair materials to build a new hull. Germanischer Lloyd Aktiengesellschaft has the following guidelines for spare sails and spars on tall ships (ref page 1-11) http://rules.dnvgl.com/docs/pdf/gl/maritimerules2016Jan/gl_i-4-1_e.pdf. In game, in consideration of both game play requirements and historical analogy, this could become something like 4 rig repairs (each restores 25% of rig damage). For hull repairs, maybe be a bit more liberal and cap it at 10. For crew, again 4 or 5 (at 25% per repair) is likely sufficient. 

Edited by GrubbyZebra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, GrubbyZebra said:

I think limiting to 1 of each would be a bit too restrictive, especially given some NPC battles can require 5 sets or more. But I also think it unreasonable that a ship can carry enough repairs to have more than 3 fulls sets of sails (the one in use, a storm , or multiple new masts, or enough repair materials to build a new hull. Germanischer Lloyd Aktiengesellschaft has the following guidelines for spare sails and spars on tall ships (ref page 1-11) http://rules.dnvgl.com/docs/pdf/gl/maritimerules2016Jan/gl_i-4-1_e.pdf. In game, in consideration of both game play requirements and historical analogy, this could become something like 4 rig repairs (each restores 25% of rig damage). For hull repairs, maybe be a bit more liberal and cap it at 10. For crew, again 4 or 5 (at 25% per repair) is likely sufficient. 

Capping like that would not affect 95%-99% of battles. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sea Archer said:

I see mods as overpowered, especially boarding and repair mods. 

I would definitely prefer to give the ships more hitpoints, but remove repairs. If they are needed, limit them to one sail and one hull repair.

I would like to agree with this, but I feel like the combat mechanics would have to be changed quite a bit for it to work properly. Specially now with the even more prevalent full-carro meta. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Never said:

Capping like that would not affect 95%-99% of battles. 

Depends on the battle. The cap to 4 rig repairs could be potentially ruinous against an experienced dismast-er (like Liq), and hull repairs could be adjusted down to 7 or 8. 4 crew repairs could also spell doom as it is not difficult to eliminate 25% of the crew through a few well-timed rakes. 

The goal would be to find a balance on the number of repairs (especially rig repairs, as chain is limited) so that players were not faced with infinitely repairable ships, while still allowing for certain other game-play scenarios (elite NPC, privateers, etc) to be achievable without needing the player to be a demi-god at NA. Honestly, this is something that should have been fleshed out in testing after the chain shot limitation was implemented (as I said in that thread at the time), but wasn't.

Edited by GrubbyZebra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

It was 16.0 even

I wish 😥

I was probably risking more than your whole gank fleet combined. I had three ships out there, my gold Wapen, the gold Wapen I lent Lionshaft, and the purple/fast Ingermanland I lent Railgun.

We did not only hit traders, there's a french Buc and purple Lo/Wo 3rd rate sitting at the bottom of the ocean too. Maybe @LionShaft got a screenshot. 

I think mods are currently well balanced if we look at the whole risk/reward situation. If you invest 10 million reals worth of mods into a ship, it has to pay off, atleast most the time. If not, gold ships and mods just become museum pieces, which sit in the docks to be marveled at but never used. I don't think anyone wants that.

Picture1.png

 

A black box. If nobody would expect an elite Spanish and a navy hull on it too 😂

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The goal would be to find a balance on the number of repairs (especially rig repairs, as chain is limited) so that players were not faced with infinitely repairable ships, while still allowing for certain other game-play scenarios (elite NPC, privateers, etc) to be achievable without needing the player to be a demi-god at NA. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, GrubbyZebra said:

Depends on the battle. The cap to 4 rig repairs could be potentially ruinous against an experienced dismast-er (like Liq), and hull repairs could be adjusted down to 7 or 8. 4 crew repairs could also spell doom as it is not difficult to eliminate 25% of the crew through a few well-timed rakes. 

The goal would be to find a balance on the number of repairs (especially rig repairs, as chain is limited) so that players were not faced with infinitely repairable ships, while still allowing for certain other game-play scenarios (elite NPC, privateers, etc) to be achievable without needing the player to be a demi-god at NA. Honestly, this is something that should have been fleshed out in testing after the chain shot limitation was implemented (as I said in that thread at the time), but wasn't.

I could count the number of battles where I've repped rig 4 times on one hand. Limiting it might be a good idea, I just said the numbers you gave would not actually be limiting anything for the vast majority of battles. 

I guess it is hard to find a balance for repairs when the combat mechanics get constantly changed for no particular reason, even when they are working perfectly fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Never said:

I could count the number of battles where I've repped rig 4 times on one hand. Limiting it might be a good idea, I just said the numbers you gave would not actually be limiting anything for the vast majority of battles. 

I guess it is hard to find a balance for repairs when the combat mechanics get constantly changed for no particular reason, even when they are working perfectly fine. 

you are making a generalisation based on a small sample size, thereby committing a logical fallacy. Only the devs can determine what value would apply to 50% of battles, 80%, 90%, 95%, 99%. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lukas97Austria said:

A black box. If nobody would expect an elite Spanish and a navy hull on it too 😂

Black box because theres 3 more naval clocks :P 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...