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Gregory Rainsborough

Battle Rating for Ports still TOO high

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On 1/6/2020 at 8:44 AM, z4ys said:

Tbh most people dont care about RvR its a necessary evil to compete in ship crafting.

Thats a reason why people join the winning side. You just have to care less and others will do the job for you. Xmas truce was great. Just go out pvp and dont care.

It was once said/written that only around 10% of the playerbase ever joined a portbattle.

And when you look at the great battle result screens that are always the same usual suspects.

lets face it not everyone enjoys RvR but all the shiny stuff is linked to rvr. Winning matters.

A stronk RvR team in your nation means less headache for yourself.

we more and more believe that these days. RvR price of loss is too high compared to just pvp. And people just hate losing stuff. 

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Loses in RvR are only bad because the gains from it are not directly perceivable, but the loss of a expensive ship is. That could be changed by making the game completely separate OW PvP and RvR PvP. The rewards for taking part in RvR PvP could be unique to it and players could be rewarded even just for participation, similar to PZ. 

Screening battles could also be recognized by the game as RvR rewarded content. Simply by putting a PZ-like area of screening around the PB port in question. All battles within it involving the nations in the PB could be considered RvR battles. 

I would compare RvR in NA to other MMOs having World Bosses. Anyone can show up during the spawn time of a world Boss and most games give rewards to anyone that even just participates in killing the boss. Give players easily tangible reasons to show up to RvR and they most likely will do so. 

Edited by Never
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5 hours ago, admin said:

we more and more believe that these days. RvR price of loss is too high compared to just pvp. And people just hate losing stuff. 

But how would you counter that? I mean losing your crafting port and acces to craft ships with a bonus,  is part of the game design in this war game. 
Ore you only think in regard to the price of a decent Pb ship?

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5 hours ago, admin said:

we more and more believe that these days. RvR price of loss is too high compared to just pvp. And people just hate losing stuff. 

Another game Developer said a while back why they are making there game something like 20/80 or 30/70 (heard both) player vs AI and you can't tell if it's a player or AI just by name.   He said that folks like to win and when your not winning all the time you aren't having fun, when your not having fun you stop playing.  So we want to re move that from having really good players always picking on less skilled players as they won't know who is a player or an AI.  

I'll take this into this game.  Folks don't like to loose all the time, when you have the same folks winning or zerging cause every one joined there nation the game stops becoming fun.  So folks either join the winning team or they stop playing.   It's part of your jobs as Devs to balance the factions.   You have not done that and that tends to have a very one sided map.  It's just repeating it's self.  Like Pirates controlled most of the Map on PvP2 cause all the best players played in one faction even though the US/GB/Dutch way out number them.   It just wasn't fun for both sides.   We have asked you to bring coalitions to help balance the games, the post you even made about such was great.  Other games balance by restricting certain factions or offering rewards to join lower factions.

Back when I was very active in MWO on we ran a Merc clan that only joined the weakest houses.  As you can see that was the one with a 7% population with gave us 30% profit on loot and XP for joining.  If we joined the biggest houses we which held 12% of the players, we actually took a -20% hit to XP and loot.

88DyX6h.jpg

If your not going to do map resets than there is no win in game, and the game gets stale if the Devs don't change anything.  Sooner or later other nations will fall and stop playing and numbers might dip down low again.  The majority of the players honestly don't care about PvP, they like just doing there own thing and fighting in the OW (PvP or PvE or both).  So once they loose the good crafting port they leave and join the bigger nations.   This isn't healthy for the game.   There needs to be some incentive to not do this.  Also incentive to join the weaker nations or have a coalition so the weaker nations can help each other.  Impossible nations should never be part of any coalition nor pirates.   

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Another game Developer said a while back why they are making there game something like 20/80 or 30/70 (heard both) player vs AI and you can't tell if it's a player or AI just by name.   He said that folks like to win and when your not winning all the time you aren't having fun, when your not having fun you stop playing.  So we want to re move that from having really good players always picking on less skilled players as they won't know who is a player or an AI.  

I'll take this into this game.  Folks don't like to loose all the time, when you have the same folks winning or zerging cause every one joined there nation the game stops becoming fun.  So folks either join the winning team or they stop playing.   It's part of your jobs as Devs to balance the factions.   You have not done that and that tends to have a very one sided map.  It's just repeating it's self.  Like Pirates controlled most of the Map on PvP2 cause all the best players played in one faction even though the US/GB/Dutch way out number them.   It just wasn't fun for both sides.   We have asked you to bring coalitions to help balance the games, the post you even made about such was great.  Other games balance by restricting certain factions or offering rewards to join lower factions.

Back when I was very active in MWO on we ran a Merc clan that only joined the weakest houses.  As you can see that was the one with a 7% population with gave us 30% profit on loot and XP for joining.  If we joined the biggest houses we which held 12% of the players, we actually took a -20% hit to XP and loot.

88DyX6h.jpg

If your not going to do map resets than there is no win in game, and the game gets stale if the Devs don't change anything.  Sooner or later other nations will fall and stop playing and numbers might dip down low again.  The majority of the players honestly don't care about PvP, they like just doing there own thing and fighting in the OW (PvP or PvE or both).  So once they loose the good crafting port they leave and join the bigger nations.   This isn't healthy for the game.   There needs to be some incentive to not do this.  Also incentive to join the weaker nations or have a coalition so the weaker nations can help each other.  Impossible nations should never be part of any coalition nor pirates.   

so true. @admin said that the alliance system was bad for the OW pvp.. well as i wrote but didnt get an answer you should use the pirate faction to be a free for all pvp faction, where if you dont want hard alliances you can join those and ally up with the ones you want to and fight the rest. I also red Redii's suggestion that was a great one. TLDR; Impossible nations are placed in pirate faction which are FFA, the Flag the clan chooses to sail are the ones you ally with, so if 3 clans are pirates, clan 1 & 2  fly the russian flag are hard alliance the 3rd fly pirate flag and has none. This would make total sense and help alot with the balancing

Edited by erelkivtuadrater

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Players unwilling to risk all are on the wrong server. There will be no reason to play if you have nothing to lose for a great many on the PVP server

A war of attrition grinds players down until they get low on morale or resources. Imagine a scenario where a player can hit the reset button , get his ships and ports back that he lost last night. He will never be bothered about the risk of losing it and in the same way there will be no incentive for the player attacking

 

games playing ok right now , don't let the whiners spoil it

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1 hour ago, Vizzini said:

Players unwilling to risk all are on the wrong server. There will be no reason to play if you have nothing to lose for a great many on the PVP server

A war of attrition grinds players down until they get low on morale or resources. Imagine a scenario where a player can hit the reset button , get his ships and ports back that he lost last night. He will never be bothered about the risk of losing it and in the same way there will be no incentive for the player attacking

 

games playing ok right now , don't let the whiners spoil it

Telling players they are on the wrong server is just a bad attitude to take. We all want more players to get involved in RvR not less. Even without any attrition, a lot haven't even touched RvR. 

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On 1/7/2020 at 10:28 PM, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

I have heard many times callers swapping people out based not even on personal skill but on how many book slots they have

and this is just dumb

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On 1/8/2020 at 4:34 AM, TheDread said:

that you should BOTH - open at least 4 slots in the ship AND not be a total idiot before you're allowed into a port battle.  Both requirements, not an either or.  :P

the tendency is sometimes to pick based on the first of those features and then ignore the second
and those upgrades do not even mean a lot, they give a tiny bit of more power, but it can be easily outmached multiple times by behavior in battle, they mean a lot less than you'd think

On 1/8/2020 at 4:34 AM, TheDread said:

but my counter argument is that you're NOT a highly skilled player if you haven't taken the time to open more than 2 slots on a ship you plan to take into port battles

lol

Edited by Captain2Strong

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12 hours ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

so true. @admin said that the alliance system was bad for the OW pvp.. well as i wrote but didnt get an answer you should use the pirate faction to be a free for all pvp faction, where if you dont want hard alliances you can join those and ally up with the ones you want to and fight the rest. I also red Redii's suggestion that was a great one. TLDR; Impossible nations are placed in pirate faction which are FFA, the Flag the clan chooses to sail are the ones you ally with, so if 3 clans are pirates, clan 1 & 2  fly the russian flag are hard alliance the 3rd fly pirate flag and has none. This would make total sense and help alot with the balancing

The old alliance system we had before that was player voted was bad as it restricted folks from fighting each other, but we didn't have forge papers back than either.  The coalition one that admin suggested was Dev controlled and if one group gets more powerful than others they can break them up and make new coalitions.  If you don't like that you can't fight french any more and your DUTCH, than just use your forge papers if you got them.   

Pirates should be free for all in all battles.  Honestly Green on Green should only count for same nation only in battles.  That will solve some of the issues of folks joined teams of other nations.   I honestly thought the impossible nations was going to be test for new pirate mechanics when it came out, but well we have seen found pirates will never get anything and what they had was removed cause of folks abusing the system.  Abusing them to get around thins (capital zones) we don't have any more.   So don't see why they can't come back.

10 hours ago, Vizzini said:

Players unwilling to risk all are on the wrong server. There will be no reason to play if you have nothing to lose for a great many on the PVP server

A war of attrition grinds players down until they get low on morale or resources. Imagine a scenario where a player can hit the reset button , get his ships and ports back that he lost last night. He will never be bothered about the risk of losing it and in the same way there will be no incentive for the player attacking

 

games playing ok right now , don't let the whiners spoil it

You do know this game, the war server is a PvE with PvP server right?   So folks can play both, some folks don't want to be safe 100% of the time.  Some folks enjoy to do things at risk on there own terms.  Some of us don't have the time to be on 24/7 like a few folks that seem to have no jobs or real life.  Most of us get a few hours a day if even that to play.  It's a pain to expect others to protect your interest all the time while your at work or doing things with family or having a holiday.  Every other game with something like this has either safe zones that no PvP/RvR can be done in or they have server resets once a certain time or goal is reached.  That attrition effects player numbers over time and gets us right back to dead servers.  Only 10% of the game is hard core PvP/RvR guys,  what you think it would be like if the rest of that 90% just left and went to Peace server as you suggest since the server isn't the right one for them according to /YOU/?

May I ask what nation your currently playing in?

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On 1/8/2020 at 1:09 AM, The Geth said:

So what I'm hearing is that hard-coded, official in-game diplomacy is a solution to the issue of RvR's relative unpopularity. And personally I'd agree, but this raises the question: does @admin plan on (re)implementing such a thing? It's not in the roadmap, at least.

I would rather pour gasoline over my ships than ever help a swede in RvR regardless of what is "hardcoded" into the game.

 

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On 1/25/2020 at 2:15 AM, admin said:

we more and more believe that these days. RvR price of loss is too high compared to just pvp. And people just hate losing stuff. 

tbh I believe it's more the risk of losing crafting ports that prevents ppl from doing RvR. RvR is great when you're winning and taking stuff from other people, it's crap when you're losing access to you shipyard facilities, port bonus', rare ressources etc.

That and the currently inbuildt uncompetitiveness of some ressources/PBs simply makes some clans/nations unable to compete i RvR and thus unwilling to waste the time/effort in doing it. PvP is simpler, cleaner and much more fun - take a ship, kill or get killed and neither party is really worse for wear after the battle.

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The problem with RvR at the moment is that it requires 11 people to defend the smallest port there is, as opposed to in the past when you could do it with 5-7.

People just move to nations where their crafting is safe. Don't blame 'em really.

Edited by Gregory Rainsborough
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13 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

You do know this game, the war server is a PvE with PvP server right?   So folks can play both, some folks don't want to be safe 100% of the time.  Some folks enjoy to do things at risk on there own terms.  Some of us don't have the time to be on 24/7 like a few folks that seem to have no jobs or real life.  Most of us get a few hours a day if even that to play.  It's a pain to expect others to protect your interest all the time while your at work or doing things with family or having a holiday.  Every other game with something like this has either safe zones that no PvP/RvR can be done in or they have server resets once a certain time or goal is reached.  That attrition effects player numbers over time and gets us right back to dead servers.  Only 10% of the game is hard core PvP/RvR guys,  what you think it would be like if the rest of that 90% just left and went to Peace server as you suggest since the server isn't the right one for them according to /YOU/?

May I ask what nation your currently playing in?

I'm in the same nation as some of your alts, turning up to screen as often as possible. Playing the game during EU hours Vp since release

Complaining that others have more free time than you ? really ?

You do realise it is a multi player game and plenty happens when you or myself aren't online ? or do you have ideas to stop that happening ?

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Nations are made by its playerbase.

When you dont have the playerbase, talking here about numbers and experienced players, the nations die. 

I remember, back when we had the alliance system, allied nations support each other either with players filling PBs or with the much needed PB commander.

Now, you cant. So nations die and players, as a result, stop playing.

What would happen right now with an alliance system ? Tactical voting by everybody with an alt or 2 ?

 

 

Right now player numbers seem steady , of course we cannot tell what they will be in the next few months but the doom mongers seem to have jumped the gun by the saying the games going wrong as it stands

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7 hours ago, Vizzini said:

What would happen right now with an alliance system ? Tactical voting by everybody with an alt or 2 ?

 

 

Right now player numbers seem steady , of course we cannot tell what they will be in the next few months but the doom mongers seem to have jumped the gun by the saying the games going wrong as it stands

You don't read to good do you, now one is suggesting the old system.  We are suggesting the Coalition system that @admin actually posted that would be controlled by Devs not the players.  Any way alts couldn't out vote active players.  They couldn't in the old alliance system as we even tried that on PvP2 and believe me between Pirates and those allied with us we had plenty of alts that where of level to out vote active players, but US and GB still had more players than we had alts.   

The reason I ask what nation is cause well I assume your using an alt name (cause there is no Vizzini in game) and I have never seen you active in any of the fights prob cause your not using an active name.   Even now with Dutch being what like 3rd largest nation maybe 4th as we did loose two big clans, we are struggling to fill port battles and screening fleets.  Specially if anything falls out of the EU time zone.  Is it cause of lack of players or lack of interest?  You can be the largest nation in game and still have hardly any PvP/RvR palyers, I mean look at GB as it's always been traditionally one of the largest nations in game.

Player numbers are study in the fact that folks are back doing trade and such to make money.  Those folks normally don't do RvR.  You got to remember there are multi types of players and some do just killing AI and doing trade runs for the most part and getting into some PvP fights once in a while on there own terms.

 

Speaking of nation size any updated list of the size of the nations currently in game?

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6 hours ago, Intrepido said:

That system created two blocks, which was a mistake as it limited pvp too much.

Player numbers are steady because of the latest fixes to RvR, trading and steam sales.

However, we will see what happens in the future. Fighting in small nations against 2 of the biggest nations that decided to ally (hilarious) is going to burn out LOTS of people. 

Actually currently isn't it like GB, Russia, Prussia, US all in one block and than you have Swede, France, Dutch on the other.  Danes and Spain pretty much doing there own thing?   There are a few loose cannons in those nations but that pretty much how I see the state of the game currently and only RvR wise.

Oh and pirates, but every one is suppose to hate them any way so that is pretty much where they stand.

 

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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On 1/25/2020 at 8:04 AM, Captain2Strong said:

the tendency is sometimes to pick based on the first of those features and then ignore the second
and those upgrades do not even mean a lot, they give a tiny bit of more power, but it can be easily outmached multiple times by behavior in battle, they mean a lot less than you'd think

lol

Are you just grinding an axe?   Maybe you've had a bad experience with bad PB commanders - there certainly are some that do it but shouldn't.   

Of course the commander should pick the best captains available and opening 5 knowledge slots is not necessarily proof of skill, but my point is good captains open slots on ships they plan to use, too.   Both people should be doing their jobs.   But if someone thinks they're just TOO GOOD to level a ship they want to bring into a PB, that tells me something about their attitude, and makes me less likely to pick them if I have other good folks to choose from.  If I have my choice between two qualified people and one has opened 5 slots and the other 2...  I'll pick the 5  slotter...  not BECAUSE the little buffs will make the difference, but because that person has shown their willing to put the time into the boat to learn more about it.   

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52 minutes ago, TheDread said:

but my point is good captains open slots on ships they plan to use, too

it doesn't hurt to do that but sometimes it is too boring to spend time sinking AI, and some prefer to just skip that and maybe eventually just open slots on PvP and stay with maybe 2 or 3 instead of all 5 for example (that's how I do it for example and Im ok with that)
and while the perks are always nice to have the change they make do not necessarily have to make someone feel like they are something they must have

52 minutes ago, TheDread said:

that tells me something about their attitude

well, yes, it tells that they did not open the slots because of something

Edited by Captain2Strong

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You  can open 3 slots on a l'ocean in a couple of days.   If someone doesn't have the attention span to run a few missions, I doubt they have the attention span to pay attention during port battles, and would rather not have them.   Perhaps you ARE a special character who does not need the practice, but nyah, for every one of you I might pass over in error by expecting everyone to have actually sailed the ship they want to do PBs in, I'll weed out 10 of the nitwits I've seen in PBs lately who obviously still don't know how to manually sail a 1st rate.   That's a trade I'll make.  I'm sorry to the folks who, like you, since I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, really are that good that you don't need to spend a few hours in the boat to master it, but overall it's good for the health of the fleet if we require that people BOTH open slots AND be decent at fighting against other players.    

Again, I'm agreeing with you that picking open slots OVER skill is dumb of a commander, but my point is that if someone hasn't opened slots...  EITHER they don't have the skill or they don't have the attitude that I'd personally want in a captain under me.   That's just my personal opinion and you may pick your fleets differently than me and that's okay!  

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30 minutes ago, TheDread said:

You  can open 3 slots on a l'ocean in a couple of days.   If someone doesn't have the attention span to run a few missions, I doubt they have the attention span to pay attention during port battles

ah, ok 😀, well, I'm for example and exception to this rule, don't know how common such exceptions are though :D
 

30 minutes ago, TheDread said:

I'm sorry to the folks who, like you, since I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, really are that good that you don't need to spend a few hours in the boat to master it, but overall it's good for the health of the fleet if we require that people BOTH open slots AND be decent at fighting against other players


this game also had an asset and experience wipe some months ago, and people who played pre-wipe also lost those open perk slots for ships because of this, so some part of them might have spent some time playing pre-wipe too

some people for example are not really into the time consuming/grindy things and just want to play more freely, only doing those grindy things when they are more necessary and avoiding them if they wish to do so

Edited by Captain2Strong

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On 1/24/2020 at 12:21 PM, admin said:

That will change soon. All woods will receive repair bonuses and penalties depending on their RL qualities. Oak will be one of the easiest to repair. 

 

Any idea if we can get some insight into the proposed changes?

With Seasoned woods, ships are now super expensive with a Santi costing 19k doubloons, 11 Mil in tools, and 145k Labour Hours in converting woods. 

Spending hundreds of hours moving resources, trading, and in logistics to craft a fleet of seasoned ships, only for them to be made obsolete with the advent of a monumental game change would mean all that work for nothing. 

Edited by Redman29
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Live Oak and white it is still oak ;) 

On 1/24/2020 at 7:38 PM, Malcolm3 said:

So, for example, for Oak/Oak ship you could repair more HP and do it faster than for LiveOak/White Oak one?

If that is so, then it sounds good

 

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On 1/6/2020 at 5:11 PM, Gregory Rainsborough said:

BR for port battles are still too high.

People wishing to participate in RvR continue to move to nations that have shown a capability to field large fleets because they are a necessity to be competitive.

BR needs to be lowered to give smaller nations a chance to compete and to give an incentive for people to move to smaller nations.

I dont agree 5700 br and 10700 br its a good think , you just need to motivate your guys to participate more

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