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Gregory Rainsborough

Battle Rating for Ports still TOO high

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I have some ideas why you're having trouble filling PBs.   I don't think you had 3k worth of Dutch ships at Azua last night, let alone 10.   I also don't remember seeing any Dutch names in combat news, btw...  The swedes got 3 kills, but everyone else who died all night was Dutch.  If Liam is okay with you claiming that 'we' got his 3 kills, that's between the two of you.  :P

One of the realities of war and politics and life in general is that you have to consider the consequences of your actions...  and pick battles you can win.   Simultaneously driving off all of your teammates and then attacking British ports was a strange choice, imo.  You picked the wrong horse here - starting that fight without considering what anyone else might do in response.  We had no intentions of attacking the Dutch when we decided that the Swedes couldn't treat us like shit and still expect our support.   You did this to yourselves and I'm GLAD the other clans you've dragged into this fight are pushing back against you. 

Also - check your timers.  The two ports that secure a 55 point port aren't where you save money or leave dormant clans in charge.   We've all made the mistake of missing a timer.  But when we do, we blame ourselves for doing something dumb, not beg for a game mechanic change that would have let us get away with it.  

In a more general way, since you're pretending that the timing of this is coincidental and the post isn't about last night...  the same rules apply to any nation.  If a player is CHOOSING to play in a nation that can't field a 10k PB fleet, they need to consider their moves carefully and secure victory before seeking battle, not the other way around...  as Sun Tzu reminds.  That's THEIR choice to remain in a weak nation, and they should be doing it because they like the challenges it imposes.   

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4 hours ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

Agreed, but this is how the game functioned for a couple of years.  Alliances were necessary then and I feel like they are now. 
 

Really what this thread needs to be about is how 11 nations is terribly diluting the overall quality of RVR gameplay. 

You think 11 is bad, from another post I hear they are considering adding a couple more to represent the real life nations that are the highest contributors to the game. 

Alliances are only going to be a band-aid for the real issue and at best a short term one. If alliances are introduced again, and GB and Pirates unite against Russia, will we see the same situation as from before with some clans within Russia complaining that GB and the Pirates are not fighting each other and that it is unfair? Wasn't this the very reason why the alliance system was removed in the first place since both servers were making the same complaint? Will the alliance system permit the dragging of a smaller nation into a war they would otherwise not be involved in much less be able to afford the losses it would incur? There are pros and cons to the system that need to be considered beyond those I have listed here.

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8 hours ago, Anolytic said:

How do you think experienced players are made? They don't grow on trees. They are forged in the line of fire, by bringing them to battles.

They all just moved from the smaller nations to one nation.

Russia's success comes from integrating several of the former nation's RvR fleets. REDS took in the Danes and Spanish for instance.

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4 hours ago, TheDread said:

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I have some ideas why you're having trouble filling PBs.   I don't think you had 3k worth of Dutch ships at Azua last night, let alone 10.   I also don't remember seeing any Dutch names in combat news, btw...  The swedes got 3 kills, but everyone else who died all night was Dutch.  If Liam is okay with you claiming that 'we' got his 3 kills, that's between the two of you.  :P

One of the realities of war and politics and life in general is that you have to consider the consequences of your actions...  and pick battles you can win.   Simultaneously driving off all of your teammates and then attacking British ports was a strange choice, imo.  You picked the wrong horse here - starting that fight without considering what anyone else might do in response.  We had no intentions of attacking the Dutch when we decided that the Swedes couldn't treat us like shit and still expect our support.   You did this to yourselves and I'm GLAD the other clans you've dragged into this fight are pushing back against you. 

Also - check your timers.  The two ports that secure a 55 point port aren't where you save money or leave dormant clans in charge.   We've all made the mistake of missing a timer.  But when we do, we blame ourselves for doing something dumb, not beg for a game mechanic change that would have let us get away with it.  

In a more general way, since you're pretending that the timing of this is coincidental and the post isn't about last night...  the same rules apply to any nation.  If a player is CHOOSING to play in a nation that can't field a 10k PB fleet, they need to consider their moves carefully and secure victory before seeking battle, not the other way around...  as Sun Tzu reminds.  That's THEIR choice to remain in a weak nation, and they should be doing it because they like the challenges it imposes.   

Ah hello British player. Unfortuately only one person died that was Dutch that evening in an actual ship. The rest were troll Pandoras and stuff for the PB. Hardly a resounding success.

Most clans don't care about us attacking GB except LIONS and everyone has told them to hello kitty off which is why they're leaving the Dutch.

It was so hard to get you to take ports when I asked, had I known all I had to do was attack a backwater shallow water ports I'd have not bothered :P

The timing of this is simple, it doesn't have anything to do with Azua etc... but the fact that consistently there are empty port battles. Monstecristi wasted an hour of my life I shan't get back because presumably you guys couldn't fill it. There are too many empty PBs which is a symptom of too few players spread among the nations. It's a consistent them of mine, even when Dutch were the zerg, that the nations should be balanced to provide better gameplay.

Brits'll be a weak nation soon that I know :)

 

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4 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Brits'll be a weak nation soon that I know :)

 

And how exactly does that help against Russia and them working towards taking over the map? This seems to be a general problem, people complain about the largest nation while attacking everything except them. It does not take a genius to figure out that while attacking the 2nd or 3rd largest it does nothing but help the largest nation secure their holdings. Sounds like tactics learned from the inside of a cracker jack box.

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Perhaps ppl wouldn't leave nations if a nation could always be competitive. Fx. by tying port bonus points to the shipyard rather than the port - this way it's up to the individual player to increase their shipyards capacity rather than the nation. This could provide some stability to the nations.

That being said - ppl has always ditched a losing nation and joined the stronger ones..

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Raekur said:

And how exactly does that help against Russia and them working towards taking over the map? This seems to be a general problem, people complain about the largest nation while attacking everything except them. It does not take a genius to figure out that while attacking the 2nd or 3rd largest it does nothing but help the largest nation secure their holdings. Sounds like tactics learned from the inside of a cracker jack box.

GB is allied to Russia now so a weak GB is good.

Edited by Gregory Rainsborough

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45 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

GB is allied to Russia now so a weak GB is good.

I dont know who informed you of that, but they are lying through their teeth. At best there MIGHT be a cease fire (and that is a maybe and a distant one at that) but nothing more. 

Consider this, if there was an alliance, then attacking GB would be the worst possible thing you could do as it would give ample reason for the 2 nations to focus on you specifically until you have nothing left. I am beginning to think you are just coming up with shady plausible reasons to further your agenda against GB. 

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46 minutes ago, Raekur said:

I dont know who informed you of that, but they are lying through their teeth. At best there MIGHT be a cease fire (and that is a maybe and a distant one at that) but nothing more. 

Consider this, if there was an alliance, then attacking GB would be the worst possible thing you could do as it would give ample reason for the 2 nations to focus on you specifically until you have nothing left. I am beginning to think you are just coming up with shady plausible reasons to further your agenda against GB. 

GB diplomats must be lying then.

Ceasefires don't generally result in joint multiflips, exchange of ports (Morgan's, Little Cayman, etc..) and screening. Alliances do though!

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Posted (edited)

Screening? Where has GB been involved in screening for the Russians or vise versa? I think you are making assumptions on what you perceive is occurring instead of knowing the facts. Maybe you should go back to your informant and ask what the reason was for the port exchange instead of seeing what you want to see.

Add to this that the clan that was involved in the exchange I doubt would have any kind of conversation with you to begin with. So who exactly provided you this information? 

Edited by Raekur
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4 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

They all just moved from the smaller nations to one nation.

Russia's success comes from integrating several of the former nation's RvR fleets. REDS took in the Danes and Spanish for instance.

Many Danish RvR player changed to Reds? Since when? 
 

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3 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Ah hello British player. Unfortuately only one person died that was Dutch that evening in an actual ship. The rest were troll Pandoras and stuff for the PB. Hardly a resounding success.

Most clans don't care about us attacking GB except LIONS and everyone has told them to hello kitty off which is why they're leaving the Dutch.

It was so hard to get you to take ports when I asked, had I known all I had to do was attack a backwater shallow water ports I'd have not bothered :P

The timing of this is simple, it doesn't have anything to do with Azua etc... but the fact that consistently there are empty port battles. Monstecristi wasted an hour of my life I shan't get back because presumably you guys couldn't fill it. There are too many empty PBs which is a symptom of too few players spread among the nations. It's a consistent them of mine, even when Dutch were the zerg, that the nations should be balanced to provide better gameplay.

Brits'll be a weak nation soon that I know :)

 

I actually think another issue is the damage model, which is necessary for a 1st rate to actually be able to harm a 1st rate due to the mods/bonus stacking.. This also means that the fun low BR battles of the past is long gone tho as ppl will simply bring 1 or 2 firstrates for the circle game and 2nd/3rds for the rest.. I had fun in the PBs where not a single first rate was present..

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I see the problem with the PB not in BR, but in the fixed time, where it will take place. You have to plan you real life around it, which some people cannot do or don't want to do, while you can do pvp all the time, whenever you choose to play.

PB can be fun, but you have to have the time.

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2 hours ago, Raekur said:

Screening? Where has GB been involved in screening for the Russians or vise versa? I think you are making assumptions on what you perceive is occurring instead of knowing the facts. Maybe you should go back to your informant and ask what the reason was for the port exchange instead of seeing what you want to see.

Add to this that the clan that was involved in the exchange I doubt would have any kind of conversation with you to begin with. So who exactly provided you this information? 

to be fair dear raekur, i was a lonely screener at santa marta yesterday sailing with a proper russian fleet. there wasn't any Dutch attacking us or defending the port. the brave captains from TOD clan preferred killing noobs at kpr instead of defending their property.

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21 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

to be fair dear raekur, i was a lonely screener at santa marta yesterday sailing with a proper russian fleet. there wasn't any Dutch attacking us or defending the port. the brave captains from TOD clan preferred killing noobs at kpr instead of defending their property.

And this action constitutes an alliance between GB and Russia as Gregory claims? It seems the dutch would prefer to throw unsubstantiated accusations instead of cannon balls at their enemies. I am still waiting to hear who the person was that provided dear gregory with this little gem of information he holds so dearly.

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Posted (edited)

with all due respect about this. The people that think the BR is to low only wants to fill their port battle fleets with first rates. You can already do that in the 20k pb ones with 21 first rates.

 

Here is a thought.

5k Port

  •  8 Christians =~13200lb broadside
  •  14 Agamemnons = ~13300lb (carro broadside) / 8400lb longs broadside

the problem i see it is that the 4th rates that we want to try to implement will allways be inferior because lets be honest. The 18pd longs will NEVER pen thick christians unless redicilously close which would result in a one broadside from 3 would mean death.

the 2nd rates should replace the 1st rates BR and increase the BR of the 1st rates by 300.

 

And to not speak about frankenships. There is an insane difference in sailing a normal oak ship with nothing special and a full kitted ship with all port bonuses, best upgrades and repairs, and to then think of them having the same BR makes it even more obsolete = Dynamic BR needs to come

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
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1 hour ago, Raekur said:

And this action constitutes an alliance between GB and Russia as Gregory claims? It seems the dutch would prefer to throw unsubstantiated accusations instead of cannon balls at their enemies. I am still waiting to hear who the person was that provided dear gregory with this little gem of information he holds so dearly.

Of course it doens´t prove anything except me sailing where and doing whatever I like to do. I just wanted to show which priorities the dutch have set while complaining about too high battle-ratings in the forum.

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Ports owning clan should determine the BR of their port battle.

 

That way if any clan want to ensure they have a 25 x however many or a 5 v5 if they suck at having friends , they can.

 

However, it should not end up with fewer nations it should be entirely clan based and provide everybody with more targets on the open seas and other players who cannot field more than 5 decent players, the opportunity to own a port, participate in RVR without being FORCED to endure the drama of nation chat.

 

Make a safe port for each of the impossible nation and perhaps people would spread out more

 

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19 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Ports owning clan should determine the BR of their port battle.

 

That way if any clan want to ensure they have a 25 x however many or a 5 v5 if they suck at having friends , they can

That would quickly get out of hand. 

To progress you must duel Pellew in a 270 BR port! 

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1 hour ago, John Cavanaugh said:

That would quickly get out of hand. 

To progress you must duel Pellew in a 270 BR port! 

As far as I can't have one Trinc (NotPellew) vs 9 privateers, I won't be happy with BR270! :)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John Cavanaugh said:

 

Please remove the BR80 limit for deep water PB's!

Edited by Aquillas
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, John Cavanaugh said:

That would quickly get out of hand. 

To progress you must duel Pellew in a 270 BR port! 

yes would need obvious set parameters with a minimum but these ideas have been brought up before

Edited by Vizzini

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9 hours ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

Many Danish RvR player changed to Reds? Since when? 
 

REDS came from Danes originally...

6 hours ago, Raekur said:

And this action constitutes an alliance between GB and Russia as Gregory claims? It seems the dutch would prefer to throw unsubstantiated accusations instead of cannon balls at their enemies. I am still waiting to hear who the person was that provided dear gregory with this little gem of information he holds so dearly.

You can go to the diplomacy section of the GB Discord, they themselves say that.

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Prior to the very first "great wipe" in what some of us call the fine woods patch, there were multiple 25 on 25 man battles with 50+ screeners outside the major battles daily.  This was with an overall consistently less population than we currently have now.  How was this possible?  A few things.  

- Hard coded alliances.  Players chose them but they were hard coded mechanics that forced them between nations.  Created an East vs West block.  Players of allied nations could use (not craft) in allied ports and fill port battles.  We were able to field multiple fleets between both nations of varied players.  

- Cheaper ships.  Ships and upgrades were cheap and easy to produce.  Losing ships with the best mods wasn't really a thing.  This encouraged more participation than the current sytem in my opinion.  

- Larger battles.  Elitism and lack of inclusiviness that Dear Gregory exhibits in this post was cosiderably less of a thing then.  Each nation / clan needed the players around them to screen and/or fill battles.  WIth the increase in lower BR the cool kids club continues to get smaller.  Overall I'd say there is far more inter-clan drama since the rise BR port battles.

- Fewer nations.  We had 8 then and it felt like a couple nations couldn't field PB fleets without help.  Now that we have 11 the situation seems to be far worse.  

 

Basically lower BR port battles isn't the answer.  If anything, they are a problem.  The dilution of players into 11 nations with no alliance system is the real culprit here.  Other factors are expensive ships (now made worse with the seasoned bullshit) that need to be crafted in upgraded ports that are constantly at risk creating a high upfront cost to do RVR that casuals really don't want or perhaps are unable to commit to.  I think redman was saying the other day that it would take 1 person 5 days to farm/create the mats for a wasa.....that can be lost within a matter of minutes.  Throw all these factors into the mix and you have a nice jumbled soup of empty port battles and declinging RvR participation.   

While I think the quality of the battles has improved, the frequency and steps needed to get those good battles seem to have increase and the seems like it's just the same old usual suspects in these fights rather than the diverse crowd we used to have with the larger PBs.  I also miss the 4th rate all Aggie battles   😞 

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51 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

Basically lower BR port battles isn't the answer.  If anything, they are a problem.  The dilution of players into 11 nations with no alliance system is the real culprit here.  Other factors are expensive ships (now made worse with the seasoned bullshit) that need to be crafted in upgraded ports that are constantly at risk creating a high upfront cost to do RVR that casuals really don't want or perhaps are unable to commit to.  I think redman was saying the other day that it would take 1 person 5 days to farm/create the mats for a wasa.....that can be lost within a matter of minutes.  Throw all these factors into the mix and you have a nice jumbled soup of empty port battles and declinging RvR participation.   

While I think the quality of the battles has improved, the frequency and steps needed to get those good battles seem to have increase and the seems like it's just the same old usual suspects in these fights rather than the diverse crowd we used to have with the larger PBs.  I also miss the 4th rate all Aggie battles   😞 

Dont forget to factor in for the small / solo player the magnitude of time and cost involved to build a shipyard capable of building a Wasa. While some think that it is easy doing trade missions within protected waters, not all share this luxury. Nor do they have ready access to some of the "Well they can just do this" solutions of escorts or large clans. The developers wanting to ensure that large ships were more rare by increasing the cost involved was achieved but at a cost I do not think they fully realized.

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