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A couple of bugs/possibly unintended behaviors


gunnyfreak

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Found the following eccentricities while trying the Rise of Heavy Cruiser scenario:

 

1) Though unidentified ships' weaponry is not shown on their ship screen, you can find out what caliber they have through hit reports and through their range indicator.

This ship which I have not identified, for example, has 11" main guns

image.thumb.png.6b65d238431da4c24f24c7d06695659d.png

12km range torpedoes

image.thumb.png.8b494a50689d163a1be559f1ed7d5e2b.png

and 2" and 3" secondaries

image.thumb.png.e9c79959bdf5a7438729926bd77ed30b.png

 

This ship which I have not identified also has 11" weapons:

image.thumb.png.a74171065ead70ef3e372ec7f2716749.png

 

 

2) My heavy cruisers seem to have trouble launching torpedoes:

image.thumb.png.f138fecff2fb34e27d0bc881f72e52fb.pngIn the above picture, the Congrieve has just "launched" torpedoes from her stern launcher, but no torpedoes are in the water.

I speculate this has something to do with the deck space between the launcher and the water. Not sure if that is intended behavior but if it is, it is not communicated in game or in builder and, in any event, I don't think a launcher should attempt a failed launch of torpedoes.

 

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18 hours ago, RAMJB said:

Range circles should not be available for non-ID'd ships.

Damage reports are perfectly fine however. When something hits you it's not hard at all to estimate the kind of shell that has hit you.

I'll actually argue they are OK. If you accept the premise that once you ID the ship the torpedo circles can show, you are saying that the other state has one type of torpedo and you know exactly what it can do. If the enemy only has one type of torpedo, you don't need to ID them by name before you know their circle - all you need to do is ID them well enough to realize they have torpedoes.

Further, in real life (or even in campaign) you will have pre-battle intelligence and while it does happen often countries don't just increase their caliber by a mere inch. They go from 12 to 13.5 to 15. Or 12 to 14 to 16 to 18. When you consider this, it isn't such a big deal to just pop up the exact caliber instead of playing games with the truth. You don't know other important information, like its explosive or whether it is a light, medium, heavy, or super heavy shell, or the gun's tech level..

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15 hours ago, Hjalfnar_Feuerwolf said:

But probably it should be an estimate. Something like 10-12" hits instead of just simply 11" hits.

No, not really. The difference between a 11'' shell and a 12'' shell was already more than telling. Not to talk about the difference between two caliber sizes.

We're talking that a 11'' gun fired a 300kg shell (on average) while a 12'' one would fire a 400kg one (again, on average). That's an increase in 25% of projectile mass. The effects will be more than notable and easy to identify. There's no way you're going to confuse a 12'' hit with a 11'' one, let alone a 10'' one.

Edited by RAMJB
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It's fairly easy in the game to figure out what tech lvl guns the enemy ai ship has just look at the model of the turret every generation increase has a (slightly) different looking turret design. tho i agree on that it's hard to see if it uses normal heavy or super heavy shells.

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1 hour ago, RAMJB said:

No, not really. The difference between a 11'' shell and a 12'' shell was already more than telling. Not to talk about the difference between two caliber sizes.

We're talking that a 11'' gun fired a 300kg shell (on average) while a 12'' one would fire a 400kg one (again, on average). That's an increase in 25% of projectile mass. The effects will be more than notable and easy to identify. There's no way you're going to confuse a 12'' hit with a 11'' one, let alone a 10'' one.

It is usually simple to tell between very different calibers, like 8in from 5in. But I would need to see sources for telling apart 11in from 12in in the heat of battle. 

The shell may kill most people close enough to see the damage it inflicts. Neither, during a battle, will the crew say: "hmm, according to the damage here, it must have been 12in in size! 11in is clearly insufficient to have caused this." How would most of the crew know this? Could one tell apart a 12in from an 11in hit without exactly measuring the impact hole or the shell (whatever of it remains)? That can be done, but it requires survivors in the area and for them go to tell the captain.

Think of USS Vincennes, where the crew was unsure if they'd been struck by a torpedo or an 8in shell. Or USS Gambier Bay, which apparently could not tell 8in hits from 18in hits.

It is much easier to tell after the battle, especially if the ship survived. But then that is not the issue of this bug report.

I agree that a range (say, 10in to 12in) would be appropriate. Perhaps after a minute, the crew could tell you the exact caliber.

 

Second issue with this bug is that you can tell shell size without being hit. That is, to my knowledge, would be basically impossible without prior information.

 

Same with torpedoes. The US certainly could not differentiate between 21in and 24in torpedo hits. I do not think the 40km maximum range of Type 93s was known until postwar, either.

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