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Bloodshed and Turmoil Rework


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My analysis will be based on what is expected of a normal game as that is what most players will experience.

As we know, the siege of Savannah never British reinforcements coming by sea as there was a large French blockade in place. Because of this historical inaccuracy, I propose making even more. What I mean by this is to split the battle into two phases. The first phase will be timer restricted where you will engage in a naval battle with a French blockade fleet consisting of several ships on the line and frigates. To make things different from Objects in Motion, have it be necessary for your troop transports to rout across the map to simulate this blockade runner move while your main fleet engages the French. After completing this, the second phase should play out very similarly as it does now. You land your troops whilst being attacked by the Rebels and French and try to hold the town. Except, this battle is way too easy. For starters, the ai attacks in waves rather than all massing which makes it very easy to divide and conquer the ai. In the actual battle, the British had elite highland units hold in a redoubt with artillery support. Currently, I feel these highland units should be represented by starred skirms and placed in an actual fort like structure rather then barricades. For the rest of your garrison, it should be a mishmash of marines, grenadiers, regulars, and militia that was used during the battle and spread out. However, make these units start at a relatively low condition to simulate the effect of constant bombardment and probing attacks during the time it took you to life the siege. Finally, once the attack actually comes, the allied force should have a significantly larger army possibly around 5k with a mass increase in artillery pieces. The defending garrison should be around 2k which needs to be supplemented by your troop transports you brought with you in phase one. In my opinion, this would make the battle far more intriguing and challenging that is worthy of a grand battle. As this was a quick mock up and I am not always the best at explaining my thoughts, I am always interested in feedback on how the mission should be reworked or if it is fine as is.

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I agree that it does lack a naval phase... for a Naval focused game lol. I do see the enemy massing their units (I hate land battles so I put that on easy) the enemy does massing units for assault while they skirmish with your troops in other area to probe for weakness. I would imagine on normal difficulty it would be the same with even more troops. I brought ~1300 reinforcement and that was JUST enough to cover most of the front line. Though what I think should happen on this mission is a random chance of an enemy mass assault on different area of defense. On my easy playthrough, it happened to be my least defended area but I think it's scripted for the enemy to strike there en mass not because it was the least defended. Overall, I think the mission is fine, a little bit too easy even on easy mode. Maybe make it so they mass attack on 2 front, but don't go over board with it, else the mission would feel cheap imo.

Edited by ColonelHenry
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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess you guy's get to play missions I am not aware of in my game but I would like to state terms in general even though this game is still in development. Be aware that is you make battles way too hard even on easy just take a guess on how many people will refund the game within the two hours window on steam like they did with UGCW?  How much money did the DEV lose because of catering to the niche group instead of the masses?  The reason I bring this up is, what is easy for someone may not be easy for everybody.  We all want a great game and games in general are to have fun. If someone thinks easy is too easy then go play Normal or Hard but don't try to make easy punishing.  

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Quite frankly @doublebuck the game is really not that incredibly hard. Like with all games, it is expected that you are going to suck when you first start playing it and I find this to be no different. When I first started, I could hardly win one v one engagements in ship combat but after playing for a while, I started to learn and figure out what I was doing quite quickly. When I started the campaign, I hadn't touched AOS is several months and UGCW in several weeks so naturally, I struggled. However, I was still able to win the battles I fought and complete Chapter 2 on the first save. Only in subsequent saves, did I truly start to play the game as optimally as I can and can now beat it with ease on hard. While the campaign does feel harder than UGCW especially with the addition of RNG, I feel that once you have played the game for a couple hours and learned what to do, it will become quite easy. Also, like with UGCW there will be tons of guides that will be made for this game that will make those growing pains much bearable. And to your point about making the game for the masses, making the game incredibly easy will not entice anyone to play it as it will become very boring very quickly. By providing a challenge, players are more likely to want to figure out how to beat it and then how to excel in it as overcoming the challenge is both rewarding and fun.

Though if you are really struggling and seem to have no way to figure out how to succeed, I'd recommend checking out the official discord where myself or others will be more than happy to provide some tips! 

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@williamThelll I am not struggling with the game. Sure I had to learn it.  I have played a few campaigns through the final frontier and what I am pointing out is when I read stuff here that some people write I just wanted to point a few things I am aware of.  I read. someone wanted to make us not have the wind, have more enemy ships or put limits of time in order to complete a mission, or make it so if you are not fast enough and don't have the wind to get to a ship in order to capture it and it will give you a draw or lost.  Sure we want a challenge so we feel we accomplish something and get a feeling of a reward but there is a fine line when it comes to that kind of stuff.

Yes, the more you play the better you get but you can say that about UGCW too, yet many people refunded that game though mainly about the 1st battle of North and South noted.

So are you trying to tell me that there should be no difference between  easy. normal, and hard difficulty?  Also, if you happen to be one of the niche RTS Gods out there can you claim that you know what the average player will be able to do in this game?

I enjoy and support this game but when everybody here puts their 2 cents in sometimes the DEV might cater to the small group.  Dev's make games because they love it but they also want to make money.  I play a lot of games like many do and there is a big difference between easy normal and hard on most games.  Rome II, had a ton of different difficulties I think even the last one where you couldn't save the game and I beat them all.  I know the game is in development and will get better over time, polished and balanced. I just want Darth to make this better than what he did in UGCW and if he does that this game will sell to the masses instead of just a small niche group.

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2 hours ago, doublebuck said:

Yes, the more you play the better you get but you can say that about UGCW too, yet many people refunded that game though mainly about the 1st battle of North and South noted.

It's worth noting that the battle this thread was started over is partway through Chapter 3. Ramping up the challenge as the campaign progresses is just as important as having easy introductions battles. Another very common complaint about UGCW was that halfway through the campaign the battles became boring because the player had such an overwhelming advantage. What are your impressions of the first few battles in the British campaign? To me at least, the first battle at least seems a much more reasonable start than UGCW had.

2 hours ago, doublebuck said:

So are you trying to tell me that there should be no difference between  easy. normal, and hard difficulty?

I'm not quite sure where you got this impression, but the devs have slowly been adding more differences between the difficulties. Resources gained, enemy strength, and how difficult boarding actions are to win are the current differences and likely more will be added as development continues.

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11 hours ago, doublebuck said:

someone wanted to make us not have the wind

I am not sure if you are saying you agree with this or are just using it as an example. Wind seems pretty integral to the game and sailing ships in general and not having it in exchange for extra enemy ships would be a mass oversight in my opinion.

11 hours ago, doublebuck said:

Sure we want a challenge so we feel we accomplish something and get a feeling of a reward but there is a fine line when it comes to that kind of stuff.

I agree which is where the difficulty settings come into play. Hard should be well hard and easy should be easy. Normal is really where the debate lies for how hard the game should be. Personally, I feel that the game on normal should provide a challenge such as the enemy having a better type of ship as an example. Also, as panda mentioned, it would be reasonable for the game to get progressively harder as you progressed and this battle I discussed initially is roughly half way (5 chapters). However, for this grand battle I was mainly discussing upping the scale of the battle rather than increasing the troop disparity between the two sides. Though, I would like to see the ai coordinate their attacks better rather than sending small waves at different points on the map.

11 hours ago, doublebuck said:

niche RTS Gods

I don't think I am and rts god nor do I profess to be. If I was coming off this way then I apologize.

11 hours ago, doublebuck said:

Rome II, had a ton of different difficulties

The difference in difficulties in Total War is 100% based on providing massive bonuses to the ai and giving massive penalties to the player. Most of my suggestions that would make the game harder are more focused around how the ai acts such as not charging over the bridge in Crossfire but instead play defensively and protect the point. Other player suggestions such as capsizing ships also naturally make the game harder. However, unlike throwing bonuses and penalties around, the ai acting more intelligently and game mechanics that you need to interact with results in a more challenging and fun experience that isn't overly hard but also not boring.

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@WilliamTheIII    UGCW is my favorite game my story told is that I could beat it on COL BG MG before Darth bragged on his last patch to the game he made the AI harder and for some reason you can blame me for at that point I can never beat the game again on MG or Legendary and even using Panda's UI mod.  Maybe I am not that good or not that patient like they are when I read their notes or watch their video's, I think I like action instead of pause.  That being said this may give you a little of where I am coming from.  My whole point is if the DEV only suck's in everybody whom wants a much harder game then of course that is what will happen and maybe it will be a bit like UGCW and I maybe OK playing on Normal.  You have some good idea's but all of this was just a POV hoping to have a much better game without making it too hard that an average person may or may not enjoy. I agree with you that most people don't want to be bored and my hope is this will all be worked out over time.  Have a great day!

 

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