Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Sign in to follow this  
rediii

Fireship rework

Recommended Posts

I didnt want to put this in any of the feedback threads because it's a mix of some topics and all if the mentioned changes would have to happen so I make a new one about it.

We all like some nice explosions but there are a few problems at the moment. PArt of that is that there are ships exploding nearly every battle now which seems a bit off. In my oppinion explosions should be something weird to happen or it should be intended fireships.

So here are my suggestions to make fireships still viable but reduce normal shipexplosions:

 

1. Deactivate the ability to deactivate survival.

Why: It does not make sense that ships of the line with 100's of crew decide to stop fighting for survival and instead just watch the fire grow. Explosions and fireships were a thing in history but I doubt ppl decided to let a ship of the line explode instead of survive as a crew.

Also Fire at the moment is a "I can't be boarded" Perk. Because you can deactivate survival while in boarding and take your enemy with you because he can NOT brace.

The only reasons to deactivate survival is to let your ship sink or your ship explode and I think this should NOT be a thing.

 

2. Increase the basic ability to fight fires more. But make it need a lot of crew 

 

3. Decrease damage of explosions (Intended change anyway) To prepatch values.

 

4. Delete 1-3rd Fireship perm upgrade from the game

No nation in RL would build such a huge fireship. Instead fireships should be smaller ships which also gives the ability to actually defend against one with demasting for example. 

 

5. Change 4-5th and 6-7 fireship mods

These rates should be the actual fireships. 4th rates are already kinda big for this but I think this is ok.

Change the perm upgrades so they end up with the damage of a explosion that is like it is now. So with the change of point 3 this should be:

  • 200% explosion strength (making it as strong as normal ships exploding now)
  • -20% Speed (I doubt fireships are built and sailed perfectly)
  • -80% Crew (This would mean a Agamemnon[500 Crew] would have a bit more than 100 Crew)
  • This perm upgrade activates the ability to deactivate survival. Deactivating survival causes fires to lit on your ship and your crew will abandon the ship. (fire -> instant surrender without putting sails down) The fires should cause a explosion after 20-30 seconds

 

6. Not necessary change: All ships in explosion radious should receive a crew shock.

Edited by rediii
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rediii said:

5. Change 4-5th and 6-7 fireship mods

These rates should be the actual fireships. 4th rates are already kinda big for this but I think this is ok.

Change the perm upgrades so they end up with the damage of a explosion that is like it is now. So with the change of point 3 this should be:

  • 200% explosion strength (making it as strong as normal ships exploding now) Cannons do 50% less damage, simulating replacement of cannons with extra barrels of black powder
  • -20% Speed (I doubt fireships are built and sailed perfectly)
  • -80% Crew (This would mean a Agamemnon[500 Crew] would have a bit more than 100 Crew)
  • This perm upgrade activates the ability to deactivate survival. Deactivating survival causes fires to lit on your ship and your crew will abandon the ship. (fire -> instant surrender without putting sails down) The fires should cause a explosion after 20-30 seconds

I dont agree with the speed nerf though, usually they replaced the cannons with wooden lookalike cannons to make it lighter and have it look like it was fit to fight. About the crew it would work if it show for the enemy as normal crew numbers, else you could easily spot out the fireship from really early on.

Most other stuff i think makes sense to look into. Problem is that its kind of obvious that a ship is fireship if its 3 4th rates sailing in front of 20 1st rates for the 20k pb's (1st/2nd rates need BR buff), and even in the 10k ones because of BR of the 42pd lineships

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

I dont agree with the speed nerf though, usually they replaced the cannons with wooden lookalike cannons to make it lighter and have it look like it was fit to fight. About the crew it would work if it show for the enemy as normal crew numbers, else you could easily spot out the fireship from really early on.

Most other stuff i think makes sense to look into. Problem is that its kind of obvious that a ship is fireship if its 3 4th rates sailing in front of 20 1st rates for the 20k pb's (1st/2nd rates need BR buff), and even in the 10k ones because of BR of the 42pd lineships

Don't think it's a problem in NA that its a obvious fireship. In reality they also didn't explode but just spread fire right?

Cannons do less dmg, not needed they have no crew anyway to reload

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rediii said:

Don't think it's a problem in NA that its a obvious fireship. In reality they also didn't explode but just spread fire right?

Cannons do less dmg, not needed they have no crew anyway to reload Was more meant to have them do less damage instead of speed decrease, since they were replaced by lookalike wooden logs as disguise

black powder concentrated in a small pocket causes a big explosion, I linked the video with the shockwave and everything in the explosion feedback (ill find it) but it should also make ships nearby being hit by burning debris to start fire as well.

 

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we look at the historical facts for inspiration, voluntary fireships should be very specifics and purposely built for it not a regular ship used for battle:

"The vessels employed by the navy in the fireship role were very varied. They were initially often converted warships or merchant vessels between 60 and 90 feet in length.[1] Despite their rating, most served as sloops or frigates, only being fitted with combustible materials when there was the intention to expend them.[1] The ships used were generally purchased and converted vessels, as it was not considered cost-effective to build new ships with the intention of burning them when a cheaper option existed.[4] Purpose-built fireships were therefore a rarity, though some classes were built during the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.[4] "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fireships_of_the_Royal_Navy

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

If we look at the historical facts for inspiration, voluntary fireships should be very specifics and purposely built for it not a regular ship used for battle:

Posted here some historical account about use of fireship:

Actually fireship must be in disguise, cause as the enemy discovers that this ship is a fireship he will concentrate fire on it. So we can't use special ship designated as "Fireship", because then there will be no disguise. Fireships must look like ordinary warships till they used their ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Louis Garneray the problem with that in the game is that its so easy tot tell the difference from 2 ships. If it was tied to sloops and mechant ships being the only ones to be refit as fireship it would be so easy to tell that it is a fireship. Then there wouldnt be any point to bring one

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

The point is that NO 4th, 3rd, 2nd or even 1st rate should be used as fireship.

 

I know that makes sense, but there is no way to make that possible in this game, since you can so easily tell the difference between ALL ships.

TLDR below;

And how RvR is now there is no point bringing anything smaller other then with the 5k port battles, maybe in the 10k port battles you have some 32pd ships, but thats it.

How it is now you're simply getting more value for your resources in 1st rates, and what you cant fill with 1st rates you fill with 2nd rates. Reason because of this is about the hp vs broadside weight and BR

Example: 

  • (1) Bellona vs (2) Christian vs (3) L'ocean. All LO|WO (it will get even worse when we see more Seasoned Woods and no Port Bonuses)
    • HP       , Firepower, BR
    1. 18,4k   , 1072lb      , 500
    2. 21,2k   , 1638lb      , 600 (!)
    3. 26,9k   , 1662lb      , 900

And this is not taken into account that values of 32pd longs have less pen value (ofc thats expected), but battles as we have them today are usually engaged and starts fighting at 1000m since 42pd flat side pens so far and the accuracy is so good in this game.

Yes the 2nd rate and 3rd rates cost about the 3rd of a 1st rate to craft, but people are meta gaming so much mats that i know for the fact that people have MANY THOUSANDS of these materials in their warehouses, so the cost of a ship doesn't matter in the bigger picture.

TLDR; Sorry for going abit off topic, but all these problems that we have a  42pd meta is because the BR is way to low for the 1st and 2nd rates, which would make it impossible to bring a <5th rate as a fireship, because you cant disguise it and considering the accuracy in the game it would be to easily focused.

 

Thank you! :)

Edited by erelkivtuadrater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...