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Admiral Olsen

AI fleets attack traders on PvE

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54 minutes ago, TheDread said:

One of the principles of game design is balancing risk versus predictability.  Good games include danger, but make that danger transparently calculable, so a player knows "If I do X, I'm accepting this much danger.  If I do Y, I'm accepting a different amount."  


If you want to keep aggressive AI, make it respond to something the player might do that would then provoke it.   IE - attacking a country's AI ships could make you vulnerable to attack by AI reprisal fleets for 30 minutes afterwards.    It's simple to avoid if you want to - don't do PVE fighting near the enemy capital zone where the ai fleets patrol - it's predictable, so if you want the challenge you know how to find it, and the rewards those fleets drop make it worth the risk to encourage players to gamble on it.  

I really like this idea! Maybe you could also buy a permit to trade in enemy waters, etc. I love the concept of it all, I think it just needs a bit of adjusting and tweaking and expounding upon.

Edited by John Steensgaard
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Dear Developers

I'm not sure if they've given enough thought to the effects of the now aggressive AI on the PvE server.

Players have reported that the AI fleets operate within a 40k radius of the national capitals. 
In narrow regions such as the Leeward Islands, on PvE this means that ports of other nations are also affected by AI ship attacks. Also on PvE, players from other nations can have their shipyards or workshops in ports belonging to the nation for which AI fleets are fighting. These players can no longer return to their own shipyards and workshops.

The fact that the AI fleets are completely oversized and attack with incredible speed, which makes it impossible for the attacked to evade the attacks, I don't want to talk in detail here. This has already been discussed above. That's not good, because it deprives the attacked of any chance of defense.

I think there is an urgent need for reworking here to make the game playable again.

Greetings Merlinor

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7 minutes ago, Merlinor said:

Dear Developers

I'm not sure if they've given enough thought to the effects of the now aggressive AI on the PvE server.

Players have reported that the AI fleets operate within a 40k radius of the national capitals. 
In narrow regions such as the Leeward Islands, on PvE this means that ports of other nations are also affected by AI ship attacks. Also on PvE, players from other nations can have their shipyards or workshops in ports belonging to the nation for which AI fleets are fighting. These players can no longer return to their own shipyards and workshops.

The fact that the AI fleets are completely oversized and attack with incredible speed, which makes it impossible for the attacked to evade the attacks, I don't want to talk in detail here. This has already been discussed above. That's not good, because it deprives the attacked of any chance of defense.

I think there is an urgent need for reworking here to make the game playable again.

Greetings Merlinor

Attack will be switched off tomorrow or day after tomorrow on the Peace server. AI will consider effects of peace agreements just like all other players. 

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

Attack will be switched off tomorrow or day after tomorrow on the Peace server. AI will consider effects of peace agreements just like all other players. 

Thanks @admin

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4 hours ago, admin said:

Players from Peace server are correct. The nations are at peace thats why agressive combat AI should not attack players - as it is against the name of the server.
 

Sir,

It is not so much (for the majority of us that goto PvE - Privateers never actually cared if "their" country was at peace with another country historically) that we have AI that might attack us, it is the speed of the Privateer fleets; reduce the speed of those Privateer fleets by 33% and all will be well (or a limit of 120% of the slowest ship in the fleet: whichever is lower) if coupled with a BR-minimum to attack a player of 450 (3x Indiaman or better); this means a player can choose to be an afk-er trader and potentially lose his/her fleet or be an active sailor and be able to evade a PV fleet by keeping an eye out.

It is Player vs. Environment after all and not "I have nothing to worry about" server.  In all seriousness, a little challenge is not unwarranted.

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

Attack will be switched off tomorrow or day after tomorrow on the Peace server. AI will consider effects of peace agreements just like all other players. 

oh please don't do it; give us until next Monday to "sample" the PV fleets.

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5 hours ago, admin said:

Yes. Just said this above
Because mechanics are shared across servers - capital waters act the same way on all servers. As a result owners of capital waters (brits at KPR) can enter battles created near their capitals against privateers (privateers are treated as players).

We like aggressive AI on peace server for immersion , not sure if players like it. What do you think?
We know players like @hoarmurath from peace server love aggressive ai. 

I play Naval Action since the alpha and have now a couple of hundreds hours on it.

I'm a 100% PvE player, my pleasure is to trade peacefully and fight only when I choose to.

Tonight I have been attacked near Saint-Nicholas by an NPC fleet coming from Mortimer Town. Huge firepower as you can see on the screenshot.

I escaped, loosing one of my ships. And I immediately get reengaged in OW by the very same fleet, which was about twice my speed. Then I lost everything. Ships, cargo, hours of travel...

So my question is: HOW THE hello kitty could a fleet full of Santisima and L'Ocean be able to sail that fast ?! The speed for the fleet is suppose to be based on the slower ship !!

@admin Your are asking what players think about this new feature. Well for me here is my answer: This is a deal breaker. This ruine my pleasure to play Naval Action. It must be either removed, or at the very least FIXED with proper stats. Worst update ever.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, admin said:

We like aggressive AI on peace server for immersion , not sure if players like it. What do you think?
We know players like @hoarmurath from peace server love aggressive ai. 

We gave you so much feedback, so many suggestions on how to implement this in an acceptable way.

I'm all in for agressive AI in areas where it makes sense, in areas where they have a purpose. Patrol Area hello? I even suggested regions at war where the AI will chase you down and where players could form dedicated fleet to go into fights and pacify the region... This could potentially change trade routes from time to time, might bring interesting stuff... So many possibilities.

I'm all in for mixed fleet too, as long as the same rules and game mechanics apply to both players and NPC. Mixed fleet with first rates? Okay then : Max OW speed should be the one of the slower ship, as is the rule for the players.

Yet again you went for your roid rage OP AI strategy where the AI plays under a different set of rules and you don't seem to understand why this frustrates people which amazes me. So here are my questions for you :
- What's the strategy against these agressive fleet?
- How do you avoid them when they are faster than your traders?
- How do you fight back as a single player?
- What's the interest of making this particular mixed fleet agressive?
- What's your intention behind that (not the agressive AI itself, but the way you've done that, with mixed fleet and impossibility to escape from them)?
- Finally, what were your expectations?

Edited by Zlatkowar
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12 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

 

- What's the strategy against these agressive fleet?
- How do you avoid them when they are faster than your traders?
- How do you fight back as a single player?
- What's the interest of making this particular mixed fleet agressive?
- What's your intention behind that (not the agressive AI itself, but the way you've done that, with mixed fleet and impossibility to escape from them)?

privateer Ai is actual made for PVP server to fight off Players/solo hunters who are killing noobs in capital waters. PvE just got a 1to1 copy. The thing is those fleets drop privateer chests that contain stuff for crafting the new seasoned wood. Endgame content needs ultra hard endboss fights. 

So should the pve be skipped regarding this content expansion?

Furthermore this change was in the patch notes. Everyone could prepare himself for this encounter + entering enemy capitals might not a piece of cake after this change.

 I guess everyone here can read, even admin wrote at least 2 times that change will be reverted for pve tomorrow and people still come here raging, so maybe not.

 

Edited by z4ys

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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

 

So should the pve be skipped regarding this content expansion?

 

 

No. Privateer fleets as source of seasoned woods or recipes will stay. Just their attack ability will be disabled. Admin did not say the fleets are going to vanish.

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38 minutes ago, vonKrimm said:

It is Player vs. Environment after all and not "I have nothing to worry about" server.  In all seriousness, a little challenge is not unwarranted.

Give it some time, devs will arrive at some solution everyone will find acceptable. I think it became evident here the community of peace server is divided regarding aggressive NPC, not dedicated to opposing the idea as cleary as in the case of Loki Runes.

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45 minutes ago, z4ys said:

privateer Ai is actual made for PVP server to fight off Players/solo hunters who are killing noobs in capital waters. PvE just got a 1to1 copy. The thing is those fleets drop privateer chests that contain stuff for crafting the new seasoned wood. Endgame content needs ultra hard endboss fights. 

Ok, we have highest valuable game loot on protection fleets of which is to protect the lowest game members, wouldn't this just encourage attacks on said members? 

Is this a paradox! 🙃

Edited by BuckleUpBones

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@admin i have actually 3 takes on this.

  1. i think its unfair that you put elite 1st rates in these groups let alone they have such an insane OW speed. They were created to stop players that were looking for easy pvp could roll up to a nations capital and steamroll new players.
  2. They could have the Reinforcement Zone barrage, i assume you still have the codes in your development chest somewhere,  so they wouldnt engage anyone outside those zones.
  3. I dont understand that these fleets should be the ones that should drop the seasoned shed permit, do you want people to come to the capital or not, besides  danes / swedes have major advantage since they can much easily repair close to their enemies capital?

You could make it work out so they not only attack players, but joins whatever national battle that is close to them in OW, overruling the BR rule, this would make them the Police in the local water.

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
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32 minutes ago, z4ys said:

privateer Ai is actual made for PVP server to fight off Players/solo hunters who are killing noobs in capital waters. PvE just got a 1to1 copy. The thing is those fleets drop privateer chests that contain stuff for crafting the new seasoned wood. Endgame content needs ultra hard endboss fights. 

So should the pve be skipped regarding this content expansion?

I know the primary focus has always been given to PvP. It's just a shame that PvE is completely neglected in their content design and implementation. This game is no longer in Early Access yet the content is being released as if it still was EA.

32 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Furthermore this change was in the patch notes. Everyone could prepare himself for this encounter + entering enemy capitals might not a piece of cake after this change.

 I guess everyone here can read, even admin wrote at least 2 times that change will be reverted for pve tomorrow and people still come here raging, so maybe not.

As asked above, how do you prepare yourself for that kind of fleet?

There's no deadline I am aware of for providing feedback. Some people got rekt or discovered this newly implemented feature this evening and the fact that admin wrote that it will be disabled on PvE does not prohibit players from sharing their super engaging ingame experience. And the fact that so many players learned about this feature ingame direclty by losing ships and cargo shows how well documented and accessible the patch notes are.

Is it really that hard to add a "Patch Notes" button in game menu? That's what we should have in "Important Information", not moderation rules as it is now...

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I'll admit I do like the idea of raider NPC fleets. I do feel, however, that the implementation needs a little tweaking. Roaming enemy NPC fleets patrolling capital waters is a good idea and adds some much needed tension to an otherwise benign server. Currently though, the NPC raiders seem to travel at some warp speed. At least that was my experience when sunk by them earlier today. 

Edited by CageyMoose
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not only warp speed, the 2 ships{used DLC ships to test this} I lost the odds were 11-1 against my lone ship. L'Oceans and trinks. Fun for the whole family

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32 minutes ago, CageyMoose said:

I'll admit I do like the idea of raider NPC fleets. I do feel, however, that the implementation needs a little tweaking. Roaming enemy NPC fleets patrolling capital waters is a good idea and adds some much needed tension to an otherwise benign server. Currently though, the NPC raiders seem to travel at some warp speed. At least that was my experience when sunk by them earlier today. 

On the OW they use Wind boosts. But again. Peace server means Peace between nations and Privateers acting as players should honor peace rules. On PVP they will eventually behave inside the instance and will learn to chase players.

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4 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

If they're at peace why are different nation players allowed to attack the AI of other nations?

 

#AILivesmatter

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9 hours ago, Raekur said:

@Wraith be careful, the last time a group of PVE players came to the war server, several PVP players got schooled, HARD. (it was on PVP2)

Wait a minute...I think remember what you're talking about.

And if we're thinking of the same clan (MLP) those weren't PvE players LOLOLOL

They were a certain skilled clan from PvP1 known for their superb demasting skills, and they schooled us because only a very very small percentage of PvP2 knew how to sail properly, hold the wind, demast, angle, etc. And even that small percentage of us were no match for the best from PvP1.

Trust me, I know, I was there. I fought them. I later spoke with the player I was fighting and confirmed he was, in fact, a PvP1 player. 

You got trolled. I got trolled. We all got trolled by them. And it was hilarious. 

 

Anyways, on topic...I think if PvE server advertises a safe space with no PvP...then it should remove all possibility of PvP happening. I'll never set foot there, because AI doesn't provide much of a challenge to me.

But it seems like Admin is aware of the issue and has a fix in the works.

 

 

 

But this thread has been great!  😂😂

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47 minutes ago, admin said:

On the OW they use Wind boosts. But again. Peace server means Peace between nations and Privateers acting as players should honor peace rules. On PVP they will eventually behave inside the instance and will learn to chase players.

The wind boosts would certainly explain the speed. Appreciate the clarification, thank you.

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10 hours ago, Raekur said:

Looks like the population on the PEACE server is about to resemble the War server. First it is forced pvp with the loki rune (and the crap response of "he attacked a NPC" is NOT valid enough of a reason). Now we have aggressive AI which will further enable use of the loki rune to rape players since it will not only include a player attacking a player but the loki user automatically has friends and from the sound of it, quite a few at that. 

Simple solution, remove the damn loki rune from the peace server. As to the aggressive ai, players will just have to be more aware of their surroundings.

 

@Wraith be careful, the last time a group of PVE players came to the war server, several PVP players got schooled, HARD. (it was on PVP2)

 

If you really believe those guys where from PvE server I got an Arizona [OCEAN] front property to sale you.  I know for a fact many that came over under the My Little Pony clan tag and others that did a lot of raiding in SNOWS where not from PvE but instead where from EU serve of some of the very well known clans.  I was laughing when other BLACK members dueled them and got schooled.  That was what gave away who a few of them was too the exact way the fought.    Than a couple admitted to who they where .

10 hours ago, ccoel1 said:

I like the AI being aggressive When you attack them only. When I click peace server I expect NOT to be attacked by a freakin lineship fleet. This server is for peace, and battle on YOUR terms only.

War Server:  PvE and PvP

Peace Server:  PvE Only

 

It doesn't say none aggressive AI...it just says no PVP which is why I didn't agree with the LOKI stone, but did like when @admin called out how whiney PvE players can be even when trying to add new good features/content.  Though with this I"m going to say I think these Privateer fleets are to big, Privateers didn't run in big fleets so it makes it kinda of more like war fleets.  Maybe we can tone down the size to more like 1-2 ships or something.    So I see where they are complaining about facing a bunch of SOLS's that are aggressive.   Maybe town down the fleet make up for PvE server and PvP and keep biger fleets (current Privateer fleets) and call them something like War Fleets on PvP server.   Just make the smaller privateer fleets aggressive Elite ships like we have.

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29 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

 

It doesn't say none aggressive AI...it just says no PVP which is why I didn't agree with the LOKI stone, but did like when @admin called out how whiney PvE players can be even when trying to add new good features/content.  Though with this I"m going to say I think these Privateer fleets are to big, Privateers didn't run in big fleets so it makes it kinda of more like war fleets.  Maybe we can tone down the size to more like 1-2 ships or something.    So I see where they are complaining about facing a bunch of SOLS's that are aggressive.   Maybe town down the fleet make up for PvE server and PvP and keep biger fleets (current Privateer fleets) and call them something like War Fleets on PvP server.   Just make the smaller privateer fleets aggressive Elite ships like we have.

Well. It does say Peace server and nations are sort of at Peace

We are removing aggressiveness from Peace. 

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20 minutes ago, admin said:

Well. It does say Peace server and nations are sort of at Peace

We are removing aggressiveness from Peace. 

Thank you Admin.  I mostly play on the PvP server since the last wipe, but  I am sympathetic to the lads who enjoy the Peace server and its NON-PVP culture.

Save the Peace Server.

Thanks for your consideration and not submitting to players who wish to change the Peace server to include PvP.   Sincerely .... thanks

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27 minutes ago, admin said:

Well. It does say Peace server and nations are sort of at Peace

We are removing aggressiveness from Peace. 

While I do understand the decision, the raiders did add a sense of tension while sailing in capital waters of other nations. As someone who lost a ship to raiders earlier today, I will miss seeing them removed. In the end, it was my own fault for not being more aware of the waters I was sailing in. As long as a player maintains situational awareness, the raiders, I feel are fine.

With respect to nations being at a tense peace, could the raiders not fly under some sort of pirate flag as a solution to that argument? Just a thought.

Edited by CageyMoose
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