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One of the rare ship explosion during the Napoleonic Wars was the Orient

We can have a look at the account of its explosion here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Nile#Destruction_of_Orient

What we can remember is that the ship was not moving (easier to shoot at), there seems to have a fire already started (probably from paint not stored at the right place), the crew was unable to fight the fire efficiently because of the water pump damaged. Also a very special ammunition was stored close by (incendiary shell) which didn't help.

So all considered we should think that a ship exploding should be a rare event and a combination of many elements going against its crew ability to fight the fire.

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5 hours ago, z4ys said:

An other battle where an explosion occurred

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_St._Vincent_(1780)

Resulted in the loss of all except 1 onboard the exploding ship. Maybe someone can find/know a more detailed documentation.

It makes sense that all crew dies on exploding ships.

It does not make sense that all ships in a 400m radius die from fireships. Some crew on sailwork is alright but I doubt people braced on the deck or below deck would die from a 17ton tnt explosion >100m away that mostly goes up since the powder is stored below the waterline.

 

The current gameplay of thick thickness and multirepair does not allow splitting up and it does not allow long range battles in RvR (big battles with a lot of people) because you can not kill anyone on range playing 1st rates. They just turn away and repair to 100% again and nothing happens.

 

Like I said already in the old days of 1 repair and no chain-dmg-falloff this would have been okay-ish. But with the current implementation it is just not a fun mechanic.

 

Suggested changes:

- Deactivate the ability to turn off survival for ships that have no fireship-fitting as a perm upgrade

- Remove fireship 1-3 from the game

 

After that fireships are still strong but (probably) not as OP as they are now.

 

Soon we will reach a point where both sides have 25 AI capped fireships and it is just a matter of who survives with more ships in the end of a PB

Edited by rediii
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16 minutes ago, rediii said:

- Remove fireship 1-3 from the game

This is actually a very good suggestion that would give a nod to realism and more importantly, immersion.  Fireships that were used in that mission were not expensive capitol ships.

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8 hours ago, admin said:

17 tons still sounds like a lot... 

The explosion of L'Orient did not sink (or even dismast) any of the nearby ships. An open air explosion that does not have it's force directed, is not as damaging as you may think.  Most of the force goes up.

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45 minutes ago, rediii said:

- Remove fireship 1-3 from the game

i can agree with this, but the problem with this is that the BR of lineships compared to other ships are way to low so any ships thats not a 1st rate or 2nd rate will get focused since it would be obvious that its a fireship, so you cant really disguise it as they normally were.

ATLEAST the BR of 1st and 2nd rate. Example. Christian has 100 more BR then Bellona and over 50% more broadside firepower

Edited by erelkivtuadrater

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6 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

can agree with this, but the problem with this is that the BR of lineships compared to other ships are way to low so any ships thats not a 1st rate or 2nd rate will get focused since it would be obvious that its a fireship, so you cant really disguise it as they normally were.

That is exactly what happened in real life.  Designated fire ships were nowhere near as effective as they are in the game.  We need to go back to killing our foes with cannon balls and not arcady special effects.

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1 hour ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

i can agree with this, but the problem with this is that the BR of lineships compared to other ships are way to low so any ships thats not a 1st rate or 2nd rate will get focused since it would be obvious that its a fireship, so you cant really disguise it as they normally were.

ATLEAST the BR of 1st and 2nd rate. Example. Christian has 100 more BR then Bellona and over 50% more broadside firepower

Fireships back in the days also didn't sail together in line with the fleet, exchanged full broadsides with the enemy and then explode with 1000 ppl on board.

Fireships are now obvious aswell because they generate 1-3 fires every broadside they receive. They are also faster than fighting ships.

 

You cant realy focus fireships as you might think because they will get close enough most of the time to do damage and compared to the BR they need they will do a lot of damage. Maybe this will even lead to more mixed fleets in PBs

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In my oppinion:

 

Short-Term Hotfix:

- Deactivate the ability to turn off survival for ships that have no fireship-fitting as a perm upgrade

- Remove fireship 1-3 from the game

Long Term mechanic should focus more on fire and not on the explosion itself see @Anolytics post

 

 

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11 minutes ago, rediii said:

In my oppinion:

 

Short-Term Hotfix:

- Deactivate the ability to turn off survival for ships that have no fireship-fitting as a perm upgrade

- Remove fireship 1-3 from the game

Long Term mechanic should focus more on fire and not on the explosion itself see @Anolytics post

 

 

Burning sails could be an option? the moment a fireship caughts fire it will take sail damage over time till it reaches 0 and the ship will be just a burning nuke in the open sea;)

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Just now, Complete-Disaster said:

Burning sails could be an option? the moment a fireship caughts fire it will take sail damage over time till it reaches 0 and the ship will be just a burning nuke in the open sea;)

Very true.  Many explosions were premature.  It was a common problem!

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We have tested again and again and there is absolutely no damage coming above 400 meters unless the exploding ship is a fireship (then it will increase the distance by 50%)

gSe33pl.png

We will provide tunes that will allow to clearly identify the fireships on wednesday together with some tuning of the explosion damage to crew and slight reduction of distance.
Crew damage is i think too high. If you are not bracing the explosion kills ALL crew on the opposing ship at 200m. Bracing saves almost all crew. But without bracing losing 100% of crew at 200 m is somewhat too high. There is not enough pressure difference due to shockwave to be so deadly at this distance behind wooden wall 

But we will keep all other damage in explosions strong and only slightly adjust it. Fireships are amazing counters and provide the way for a newbie to be useful and take out 4 pros if they blob like cattle and do not keep distance in station keeping. 

 

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Im not a fan of this as big battles are decided within minutes; get a decent fireship in and the competetive battle is done - feels just like either ganking or being ganked afterwards, depending on how lucky you get / if RNG is on your side or not... Basically a gamble.. 

You should make a poll on this.. Prerty sure most players, all nations, prefer the original fireship Mechanics

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34 minutes ago, Liq said:

Im not a fan of this as big battles are decided within minutes; get a decent fireship in and the competetive battle is done - feels just like either ganking or being ganked afterwards, depending on how lucky you get / if RNG is on your side or not... Basically a gamble.. 

You should make a poll on this.. Prerty sure most players, all nations, prefer the original fireship Mechanics

i believe its one more element to take into consideration when fighting though. Also it can shift a battle in the opposite direction if someone are getting crushed. In RVR you can usually see the outcome in the first 30 mins, and it usually becomes a clean wipe of one the sides with the winning sides loses maybe 2-3 ships.

But I can agree though, that you shouldn't be able to turn off survival if you dont have the fireship refit. Maybe the ship should start to lose crew if he turns of survival if its a fireship? simulating that the captain makes the command to abandon ship?

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59 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

i believe its one more element to take into consideration when fighting though. Also it can shift a battle in the opposite direction if someone are getting crushed. In RVR you can usually see the outcome in the first 30 mins, and it usually becomes a clean wipe of one the sides with the winning sides loses maybe 2-3 ships.

But I can agree though, that you shouldn't be able to turn off survival if you dont have the fireship refit. Maybe the ship should start to lose crew if he turns of survival if its a fireship? simulating that the captain makes the command to abandon ship?

Most battles in RvR is about player skill or fleet skills.

If battle is desided om 30 min is because tactical mistake or that the player skill diffrence is to high.

Edited by North

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10 hours ago, rediii said:

Fireships back in the days also didn't sail together in line with the fleet, exchanged full broadsides with the enemy and then explode with 1000 ppl on board.

Fireships are now obvious aswell because they generate 1-3 fires every broadside they receive. They are also faster than fighting ships.

 

You cant realy focus fireships as you might think because they will get close enough most of the time to do damage and compared to the BR they need they will do a lot of damage. Maybe this will even lead to more mixed fleets in PBs

One thing they also didn't do was put a bunch of expensive (in real life) cannons on a fireship.  So what the mod can actually do is limit the crew and cannons on a ship.  Than you know if that first rate is running 200 crew with no cannons it's a fireship.  This way the fireship can't try to rage board some one while on fire or get lit......they will be way under crew to do anything other than man the sails of that ship.

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Personally, I feel there should NEVER be 100% crew kill from these explosions - except on the exploding ship.

The battles are become more of an arcade game.  Not what I expect of a game that promotes itself as a realistic naval combat game.

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

One thing they also didn't do was put a bunch of expensive (in real life) cannons on a fireship.  So what the mod can actually do is limit the crew and cannons on a ship.  Than you know if that first rate is running 200 crew with no cannons it's a fireship.  This way the fireship can't try to rage board some one while on fire or get lit......they will be way under crew to do anything other than man the sails of that ship.

But then a fire ship should get a button to start a fire and not wait/rely for some random cannon shots to ignite the powder.

 

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9 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

One thing they also didn't do was put a bunch of expensive (in real life) cannons on a fireship.  So what the mod can actually do is limit the crew and cannons on a ship.  Than you know if that first rate is running 200 crew with no cannons it's a fireship.  This way the fireship can't try to rage board some one while on fire or get lit......they will be way under crew to do anything other than man the sails of that ship.

I like this suggestion tho it would be cool if the fire ship appeared normal (crew and cannons) until it had closed to a certain distance of an enemy ship. 

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2 hours ago, Farrago said:

I like this suggestion tho it would be cool if the fire ship appeared normal (crew and cannons) until it had closed to a certain distance of an enemy ship. 

I think the amount of crew and canons put on a fireship should be at the discretion of each player. But I agree that fiireships should be recognizable if players pay attention.

Suggestions:

The upgrade fireship could add some gunpowder barrels on upper deck which can be seen by other player.

Because of the upgrade fireship lowers decks canons are locked and cannot fire any single ball because of the space occupied by the gunpowder barrels.

Edited by Capitaine Eole

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I love nukes, but I think I bought a ships game... not a WWIII game...

I'm sorry but it's a disastrous idea

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7 hours ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Nice that you admitted your mistake. Do I get compensation for my random Ocean with upgrades now? I lossed it due to an explosion 200 m away. I had full health and full crew before. It took me 10 hours game play of gathering CMs, Doublons, Reals and resources to built it. Only to get wiped out by a fault of your company I paid a lot of money for the promise of a functioning game.

this is abit off topic though.. but hold on.. 10 HOURS? for a ship that should be the very last obtainable object? @admin get those permits out of the admirality and into the epic events right now 😮

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42 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

this is abit off topic though.. but hold on.. 10 HOURS? for a ship that should be the very last obtainable object? @admin get those permits out of the admirality and into the epic events right now 😮

Would not be a problem if battleratings of portbattles would be changed.

Or the BR of ships significantly improved.

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