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Trading Explained - Feedback welcome

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5 hours ago, Earl of Grey said:

One thought: maybe we should increase the risk for the highest profit trade goods:

Example:

NOW: buy at 10.000 reales, sell 30.000

Future: buy at 40.000 reales, sell at 60.000

Profit is the same (ok some more taxes), but risk is much higher ...

Make this only for the high profit routes, so the "small shore Trader" dont get affected ...

 

that would actually lower the ROI for those goods, on the fence as to whether or not that would be desirable...

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6 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

By that logic, lets put a limit on many players you can kill, how many ships you can build, how many labor contracts you  can utilize in a day.. lets put limits on everything. 

 

Truth is, if somebody wants to run trade 24/7 yes they will rake in money. Just like somebody who goes and kills people 24/7 will get lots of those rewards.  

 

Trading is a requirement to be able to afford to do things in the game. It is not really a zero effort move as already talked about. Resources have to be stalked, fleets prepared, making the trip without getting sunk... I am not sure what nation you are in but there are massive trading losses daily. Many "pvp gods" literally only go for traders all day long. 

Those other things aren't currently having any adverse effect on the game though, so you're not making much of a point with that argument. If you were trying to argue from a logical standpoint, you missed the mark. Killing players actually requires effort, you can't do it with a bot like activity. I have completed 100 million worth of trade in profit in the last few weeks and not once has any of my fleets been attacked, much less lost anything. 

It might not be zero effort, but the rewards are far greater than the effort required to obtain them. 

Edited by Never

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2 hours ago, Never said:

Those other things aren't currently having any adverse effect on the game though, so you're not making much of a point with that argument. If you were trying to argue from a logical standpoint, you missed the mark. Killing players actually requires effort, you can't do it with a bot like activity. I have completed 100 million worth of trade in profit in the last few weeks and not once has any of my fleets been attacked, much less lost anything. 

It might not be zero effort, but the rewards are far greater than the effort required to obtain them. 

This isn't the case for every nation, though. Smaller nations have a damned hard time of trading in bulk without being targeted. If your nation is large enough to own ports on both sides of the Gulf of Mexico, and populous enough to provide impromptu escorts aplenty in those waters, how could that possibly compare to some poor, lonely fellow trying to run a gauntlet of 3-4 enemy nations in the Windward Passage?

Edited by The Geth
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8 hours ago, Never said:

Those other things aren't currently having any adverse effect on the game though, so you're not making much of a point with that argument. If you were trying to argue from a logical standpoint, you missed the mark. Killing players actually requires effort, you can't do it with a bot like activity. I have completed 100 million worth of trade in profit in the last few weeks and not once has any of my fleets been attacked, much less lost anything. 

It might not be zero effort, but the rewards are far greater than the effort required to obtain them. 

Im not sure if you are even playing the game or even trading at all..... because i can guarantee you, it hardly is a 0 effort thing. In fact, it is a full day's literal work. And then you end up blowing all the days work on a ship and the mods you put on it. I didnt make 10m today but i spent 10m. 

 

If i cant fund my gameplay i simply will not play. I suppose people are happy with how brutally deserted was in mid 2018 and are eagerly trying to push it back into that ditch! 

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3 minutes ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

Im not sure if you are even playing the game or even trading at all..... because i can guarantee you, it hardly is a 0 effort thing. In fact, it is a full day's literal work. And then you end up blowing all the days work on a ship and the mods you put on it. I didnt make 10m today but i spent 10m. 

 

If i cant fund my gameplay i simply will not play. I suppose people are happy with how brutally deserted was in mid 2018 and are eagerly trying to push it back into that ditch! 

People seem to be eager to f.uck the game, again.

Looks they arent happy with the increased pop. They dont understand an easy going economy is essential when in a battle you can lose a ship worth several millions.

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Trading isn't broke but it is a problem.......as the only true pirate in the game let me explain......

Traders and trade ships are like fat sheep, wondering around the map getting fatter and fatter. Trading needs to stay the way it is instead, incentivise the wolves of the game!

The plan is to do what the dev's have always done so brilliantly with naval action and follow history!

1) fix trade ships or bring back smugglers flag so that hunting in foreign waters is easier. 

2) bring back tow to port in battles instance option for captured ships (trade ships only). Make capping a trade ship worth more than combat marks

3) make trade ship sinks be worth half or zero combat Mark's

4) implement more trade ships, trade Niagara? Trader Essex? Make LGV (which is useless ship) an LGVR. Make indiaman refit. 

All in all make traders a HUGE target in game....this will prompt escorts and encourage pvp.  Did you know that when I started hunting traders in south America 100% of all indiaman my little tsnow came across was unarmed! Both the main and the fleet!! Now almost all of them are because they got tired of me taking their shit! Also I'm seeing more folks sail a war ship as main with indiaman in fleet. 

So don't "fix" trading, make them earn their money, make them have clanmates escort them. This will stop the afk sailing and slow the billionaire progression.  Hell if someone ask me to escort them for 1mil I'd do it!

 

Edited by Sea Fox
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17 hours ago, BoatyMcBoatFace said:

Im not sure if you are even playing the game or even trading at all..... because i can guarantee you, it hardly is a 0 effort thing. In fact, it is a full day's literal work. And then you end up blowing all the days work on a ship and the mods you put on it. I didnt make 10m today but i spent 10m. 

 

If i cant fund my gameplay i simply will not play. I suppose people are happy with how brutally deserted was in mid 2018 and are eagerly trying to push it back into that ditch! 

I don't think I said it was zero effort, but it is very easy compared to other activities and more rewarding than most of what you can in the game; and in some cases the risk is basically zero.

Have you seen the port taxes? there's literal hundreds of millions being injected into the economy every day, and there is very little taking reales out of the economy. You can't have a balanced system like that. 

People are wary of selling their stuff for reales because what is worth 1 million today, might be worth 2 million next month. Some degree of inflation is normal but prices for most items that are commonly traded have already doubled and in some cases tripled already. That is going to get worse, I mean if people really think it's good for the server when they have to pay in the hundreds of thousands for enough repairs to go pvp out of a free port or pay something like 2 million for a decent ship upgrade and 3 to 4 million for an elite upgrade, then I guess it's no problem because that is where we are headed. 

If trading could be lucrative and rewarding in other aways other than just endless reales that will never leave the economy, then that might be a way to fix it. 

Edited by Never

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7 minutes ago, Never said:

Have you seen the port taxes? there's literal hundreds of millions being injected into the economy every day, and there is very little taking reales out of the economy. You can't have a balanced system like that. 

 

You are obviously not tooling up with seasoned woods.   A L'ocean's worth of wood costs 7 million to season if you wait 53 days.  9 million if you want it done in 40 days.    And millions more if you want to make it go faster.   That's where all of the multi-million dollar clan budgets are going ,at least for the big clans with the major ports.  There absolutely ARE sinks built into the game for reals.  

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26 minutes ago, Never said:

I don't think I said it was zero effort, but it is very easy compared to other activities and more rewarding than most of what you can in the game; and in some cases the risk is basically zero.

Have you seen the port taxes? there's literal hundreds of millions being injected into the economy every day, and there is very little taking reales out of the economy. You can't have a balanced system like that. 

People are wary of selling their stuff for reales because what is worth 1 million today, might be worth 2 million next month. Some degree of inflation is normal but prices for most items that are commonly traded have already doubled and in some cases tripled already. That is going to get worse, I mean if people really think it's good for the server when they have to pay in the hundreds of thousands for enough repairs to go pvp out of a free port or pay something like 2 million for a decent ship upgrade and 3 to 4 million for an elite upgrade, then I guess it's no problem because that is where we are headed. 

If trading could be lucrative and rewarding in other aways other than just endless reales that will never leave the economy, then that might be a way to fix it. 

On one hand you are complaining there is too much money (according to you) and then you turn around and say people cannot afford to buy things with the new prices? Which is it? You cannot claim both things at the same time! 

 

You might put  cotton sails on your fir/fir ocean but i dont leave dock without any of my ships having 5-8m of upgrades on them, using last months prices. 

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there is only 1 option to fix the trade all those who whine here should go to sea and fight. Yes, the New Orleans has a profit, but there are a lot of players there and they trade and this is their gameplay, your gameplay is crying on the forum, I don’t ask to fix you ....
ps the new economy allows me not to carry remixes to the ports where I fight there is always a person who will sell me repairs for my ship 10 times more expensive, that's who the real evil is

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6 minutes ago, Gringo69rus said:

there is only 1 option to fix the trade all those who whine here should go to sea and fight. Yes, the New Orleans has a profit, but there are a lot of players there and they trade and this is their gameplay, your gameplay is crying on the forum, I don’t ask to fix you ....
ps the new economy allows me not to carry remixes to the ports where I fight there is always a person who will sell me repairs for my ship 10 times more expensive, that's who the real evil is

You make absolutely zero sense.

Why do you think repairs cost 10 times more? take your time and think about it. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:12 AM, admin said:

Captains. We got reports that trading is broken (too much money. Is it true? How is it broken?  Is it really really broken?

It is broken.

Trading routes are ok, so are the profit margins. The problem is that there is no dynamics. Supply and demand are constant no matter what. 

Not sure about the supply of trade goods though. It seems they spawn at server maintenance and players who are online right after maintenance get to buy them. After that, they never spawn again, it seems. 

I don't know why the buy and sell contracts for trade goods were removed. To me this decision does not make sense. Please add them back into the game. 

  • When we had contracts on trade goods, you could sell stuff in free towns to players from other nations while not being online at the same time. 
  • The buy contract bid race emulates a dynamic demand lowering the profit margins which counters inflation. 
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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 8:12 PM, admin said:

Captains. We got reports that trading is broken (too much money. Is it true? How is it broken?  Is it really really broken?

I don't think it is broken.  It is good that I can make the money that I need in order to purchase stuff.  Because I can make enough money in a few hours to last me for days, I am very happy with trading and I only do it when I need to (it's Naval Action...not Naval trading after all..).  It is certain that the players who focus on mainly trading are making ridiculous sums of money and that can lead to inflation.  I'm not even sure what damage they are doing with their multi-millions.  I still think the amount of investment in the seasoned wood process is far too high.  I don't even have a shed (no point spending the money, when I've never seen a (s) wood permit on the market). But maybe that is access to these permits as opposed to money problems.

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8 hours ago, Never said:

You make absolutely zero sense.

Why do you think repairs cost 10 times more? take your time and think about it. 

1-2 weeks before the trade change, repairs were anywhere between 250-500 at la tortue, rum got down "almost" to 150 per.

last night they were:
Hull: 750 (ranging from 500-800 over the day)
Rig: 450 (ranging from 300-700 over the day)
Rum: 500 (ranging from 250-500 over the day)

when I look back even further, repairs were around that price a month after release. now this is clearly not a vast amount of data to make an argument. but I tend to base the "open economy" by La Tortue pricing, and at least based on that to me, prices didn't change all that much, and now i actually  have cash to afford to price of the good.

in Sweden, we have multiple clans that are quite competitive with pricing their goods for selling and so almost all our primary crafting/outpost ports have repairs around 150-200 and rum about 100. 

from a Swedish perspective goods are getting cheaper to buy, not more expensive.

Edited by Teutonic

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If you want cheap repairs come visit the open port Mantua. Its the better option to tumbado. :P

After a certain time the is no need to spend millions every day.

shipyard done

eco done

books done

whats left are guns, ships, reps and sometimes mods.

Edited by z4ys

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20 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

1-2 weeks before the trade change, repairs were anywhere between 250-500 at la tortue, rum got down "almost" to 150 per.

last night they were:
Hull: 750 (ranging from 500-800 over the day)
Rig: 450 (ranging from 300-700 over the day)
Rum: 500 (ranging from 250-500 over the day)

when I look back even further, repairs were around that price a month after release. now this is clearly not a vast amount of data to make an argument. but I tend to base the "open economy" by La Tortue pricing, and at least based on that to me, prices didn't change all that much, and now i actually  have cash to afford to price of the good.

in Sweden, we have multiple clans that are quite competitive with pricing their goods for selling and so almost all our primary crafting/outpost ports have repairs around 150-200 and rum about 100. 

from a Swedish perspective goods are getting cheaper to buy, not more expensive.

It's all very dependant on who the seller is and if the same people are bothering to move the repairs as their business. The prices do up and down, but looking at LT alone isn't a very broad pov. I've seen rum for 1k at several ports too. 

It isn't mainly about repairs though, prices of most good upgrades shot up by about 200-300%, for example. 

Then it isn't about that alone either, but having 100x more reals coming into the system that are going out is in itself an issue. The items that will be more affected are the ones in lower supply. Things like repairs and other stuff that can be obtained for a set price from the system will off course be less affected, depending on the specific situation. 

I wouldn't even say trade needs to be less lucrative but that it could be lucrative in a better way. Things like traders guilds have been proposed before with specific rewards for traders. I think the trade fix we got is lazy, just a quick patch up work that should not be expected to be a permanent fix. 


 

Edited by Never
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17 hours ago, van Veen said:

Not sure about the supply of trade goods though. It seems they spawn at server maintenance and players who are online right after maintenance get to buy them. After that, they never spawn again, it seems. 

  

On 12/1/2019 at 6:12 PM, admin said:

 

  • This allows you to buy the goods if you are in the port right after their delivery by NPCs

 

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my 5c: trading takes quite a few hours of gameplay to make enough to buy a decent ship that you can loose in minutes (as it should be, we don't want people be paranoid about loosing their precious ship, right?), and instead of buying some of the more affordable random crappy ships you are far better off simply capturing it. i've no idea where the problem is but that aspect of the game is just not working atm.

if traders do it for fun then i guess money shouldn't be a problem either, but the prices of ships and upgrades are really nuts. my impression is that there is a huge divide between those few veterans that know the ins and outs perfectly well and are able to exploit it and set the stakes for a vast majority that is completely oblivious to most of the content.

for me trading as it is is just something to be ignored. however, i do have the admirality connection and a couple dlc ships, so i can sustain my gameplay just fine just by playing how i like (in battle or looking for battle!), but i wonder how any new player will do without that, unless they're spoonfed and cared for by some clan.

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