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Seasoned Woods poll

Do you like the addition of seasoned woods?  

231 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the addition of seasoned woods?

    • Yes
    • No
    • I like the general idea but would (slightly) adjust them, by.. (post below)
  2. 2. Do you believe it will create an imbalance?



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2 hours ago, admin said:

You can grow teak anywhere in the tropical climate - which means anywhere in central america. It was more profitable to grow tobacco sugar and other export goods. If we limit it only to central america it would allow players to lock other players out of teak. Its really interesting that you never complain about unhistorical things you like. East India Company had maybe 100 ships at their disposal (most players have 25). Force yourself to only sail 1 ship, use only one dock (one base), use no teleports and reset your account after every loss of boarding or losing your ship if you bring complaints like this.  Some things are historical, some things are not. Its a game. 

What do you know about what I like or not? I understand in the end its a game, but you're the one making me ask these questions because the DESCRIPTION of the item makes little sense, why would you write so it says explicit that it is grown in India, but somehow we can grow it on all islands of our liking, why not just write that its a tree sort that grows in tropical areas?

Its strange when you use say threedecks.com as reference to the armament on ships, but somehow gives totally other values to the ships. See french lineships, santissima with 42pd?? when you have the 36pd ingame (allowed to use now, but shouldn't be able to mount 42pd in 1st place).

It would be the same for port battles, I understand for gameplay and server management the rooms cant be unlimited amount of ships.

But the reason I always vouch for changes as close as possible to realism but still playable is because YOU described the game like that  "  Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat sandbox immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history - when sailing ships ruled the seas. "

I would never go into say Sea of Thieves, make a huge forum post and tell the devs that a ship cant be sailed by 1  man, and you cant reload the cannon, because you would have to remove hot debris, and pushing that several tons cannon back to firing position.

Edited by erelkivtuadrater
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2 hours ago, admin said:

You can grow teak anywhere in the tropical climate - which means anywhere in central america. It was more profitable to grow tobacco sugar and other export goods. If we limit it only to central america it would allow players to lock other players out of teak. Its really interesting that you never complain about unhistorical things you like. East India Company had maybe 100 ships at their disposal (most players have 25). Force yourself to only sail 1 ship, use only one dock (one base), use no teleports and reset your account after every loss of boarding or losing your ship if you bring complaints like this.  Some things are historical, some things are not. Its a game. 

I think the main problem is you talk about historical accuracy to justify things but you are happy to ignore it when its convenient to you. I am more than happy when historically themed games make an effort to be accurate but I have to admit it often doesn't make for stimulating gameplay. Yes its historically inaccurate that we can teleport from port to port, command multiple ships and build a first rate in under a 30 year time span but these are things we have because it is a for-profit game and it has to walk the balance between fun and grind, the RPG loop of Explore - Collect - Spend - Improve so we have these inaccurate conveniences to prevent the grind from becoming too much and players giving up through fatigue. 

You know what isn't historically accurate. Loki Runes, Unlimited Cannon Balls, No Provision Requirements, Buying a thousand sailors in a pub on a small island to man your L'Ocean, Russia in the Caribbean, and the Port Town of New Edinburgh still existing in this time period.

These are all things you implemented even though you knew they were inaccurate. You can't flap your arms talking about Historical accuracy to justify a badly thought out feature when you blatantly ignore historical accuracy  to add in other features in the same update. Sorry but that excuse doesn't fly for me.

But if you want to build a rouge-like game that locks players to one ship, one portbase and instant restart if they lose then do let me know because I would love to play something like that.

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27 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Do you have an idea?

Still not - it's hard to invent something simple and suitable both for gameplay and for easiness of implementing

36 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

The introduction of it was also some kind of „unreal“ ...

That's another story unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, Malcolm3 said:

Still not - it's hard to invent something simple and suitable both for gameplay and for easiness of implementing

What about the following?

- remove the seasoning hut and permit stuff

- link the quality of wood to its time resting / seasoning in the warehouse, after harvesting it

- or - as someone else already put it, - if you want to craft a ship with seasoned wood, there should be a timer for the launch of this vessel (e.g. you craft a l‘Ocean and want the seasoned wood version, than you need to wait ... maybe 24 hours before the ship can be used).

These realisations/ modifications would allow everyone to have seasoned woods, without extra grind and costs except more time. The last variation would furthermore hem immediate replacements of seasoned wood vessels. 

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38 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

 

- link the quality of wood to its time resting / seasoning in the warehouse, after harvesting it

 

Warehouse is full of wood. Would be kind of fake.

I do like that people now sail out and trying to hunt those privateer fleets. Its a matter of time till people figure out to intercept those fleets and turn it into ow Trafalgar battles.

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4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Warehouse is full of wood. Would be kind of fake.

I do like that people now sail out and trying to hunt those privateer fleets. Its a matter of time till people figure out to intercept those fleets and turn it into ow Trafalgar battles.

Ok, i understand that.

But then they should make these OW privateer fleets the only source of permits for the seasoning hut - otherwise the top 3 nations would have an advantage over the other ones.

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What  I also do not understand, now we need to have a new building, the seasoning shed ?

Should I buy some alt accounts while there is a discount ?

Seasoning shed needs to be a part of workshop or shipyard. So you still need to pay those resouces to upgrade your building. But what admin does is introducing new building, another nerf to my total building count !

Please increase building number limit by one or put that shed into an existing building.

Please hotfix dlc droping seasoned woods when dismantled.

I would like to see seasoned wood process for only line ships.Now you are breaking all the little balance that was left in ow pvp !

It was already difficult to catch , sink a 55 point bonussed,  best moded even purple, golden super frigates with inferior ships. Now they will be even more overpowered.

Now you have turned this game into mostly gear based game (p2w with alts) from initial skill based type of game. 

Yes you can not craft seasoned 1st rates easly, but those players will surely start sailing seasoned wood, 55 points, best modded endymion, trincomalee, ingermanland and wasas, very soon. 

Another premature, badly designed idea, into a released game which was struggling to keep it’s players. Naval Action a beauty mistreated by her own father.

Edited by AeRoTR
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I'm not sure why seasoned woods have been introduced, seasoned wood is the default building material for ships of the period.

Seasoning wood was pretty much done by almost every navy worth its salt at the time because the shrinkage created a much more stable structure for ships to be built from. People don't seem to have a particularly wide understanding of what or why it happened here. Seasoning wood was a fairly risk free undertaking and while seasoning could spoil the wood if done badly and exposed to weather it was very common knowledge how to do it properly. Seasoning is also something that still goes on today because its effective. The point of seasoning is to find the natural resting point and release tension in timbers so whatever is made from them has a more stable structure, it also allows the shrinkage effect of the drying purpose to make the difference in size and weight etc. because these factors can dramatically change structural integrity over larger projects like ships because typical woods have a shrinkage effect of around 5%.

Seasoning can be done either in seasoning sheds or on the stocks and isn't a process that takes a defined time but can be done over a period of months or years for slightly different results with the longer the wood is allowed to settle and dry the better the long term results of the process, this is especially evident when looking at ships that had long build times and artificially elongating the build process to account for this tends to create much better ships all round.

The result of seasoned wood is that ships maintain their structure much longer when at sea which means they stay true to their lines longer and also take less wear and tear from the continuous exposure to various flexing and strains put on them by waves and weather. The other noticeable effect is that once the ship is reintroduced to water having been properly dried out during construction is that you get a much better seal between the planking as the swell of the wood after launch tightens the caulking as it applies more pressure as the woods grow as they take on moisture again.

The problem however isn't that the process is historical or not, the problem is that it only expands on the already somewhat imbalanced woods in the game. Seasoned woods will soon become the new meta which will have a negative effect on new players who can't so easily get hold of the resources to build the more expensive seasoned ships that in reality should just be the typical build. The other issue is it pushes players into DLC ships, as game labs have kindly promised that DLC ships won't be the best ships in their classes this just feels like a somewhat sly way to push players into DLC ships as the ships themselves aren't technically better but the ease of building them out of seasoned woods quickly makes them much more economically viable which can only have a negative effect on the game and create a secondary pay to win scenario.

A more realistic and historical way to introduce wood tiers would be to introduce greenwood ships, much cheaper to build and more disposable as was done in times of oak shortage or elongated wars, it was also a fairly short term way for viable second power navies to quickly build large numbers of ships that could stand up to more powerful navies for a period of time but again it doesn't make a huge amount of sense by design to introduce a second group of materials to build ships from when there's already vast imbalances in the system we currently have to play with, let alone having to now balance a new meta.

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32 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

I'm not sure why seasoned woods have been introduced, seasoned wood is the default building material for ships of the period.

@admin Please read the post above! There’s much of what I’ve already tried to tell you!

Maybe I didn’t find the right words.

32 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Seasoning wood was a fairly risk free undertaking and while seasoning could spoil the wood if done badly and exposed to weather it was very common knowledge how to do it properly.

@admin So why do we need the seasoning shed / permit barrier???

32 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Seasoned woods will soon become the new meta which will have a negative effect on new players who can't so easily get hold of the resources to build the more expensive seasoned ships that in reality should just be the typical build.

@admin You say you want to get new players to stay, don‘t you!?

The way seasoned woods are now add to thier early leaving imo!

Edited by Navalus Magnus
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21 hours ago, Winterthrust said:

I think the main problem is you talk about historical accuracy to justify things but you are happy to ignore it when its convenient to you.

I kinda wish we could drop the whole historical accuracy argument.  This whole game is a mix of accuracy vs playability.  Have you ever seen an actual square rigged ship sail into the wind??  This sort of nit picking just muddies the discussion.  If you want to make an argument against a decision by the Devs, make it based on how it affects the game play.  Who gives a Sh** about whether teak grew in the Caribbean or whether the original vessel was made of oak or fir?  If the Devs didn't ignore historical accuracy when they felt they needed to, the game would be unplayable.

Edited by Angus MacDuff
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5 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

I'm not sure why seasoned woods have been introduced, seasoned wood is the default building material for ships of the period.

 

Navies built ships from green wood too. When they needed something fast. It is written across all literature (i am sure you have some of those books)
Navies always preferred to built them with seasoned woods. 
Which are now in the game

Unrelated
I also got the book on Nelson ships from private owner (its not on sale officially) and you made several mistakes when copying speeds data from them when replying on our speed improvements ideas. You can contact me in private if you want to talk about it. 

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5 hours ago, Navalus Magnus said:

 

The way seasoned woods are now add to thier early leaving imo!

We do not plan to change anything about seasoned woods.
Their bonuses are much lower than historical hardness and weight benefits, and time to season is much lower than historical. 
We know what these woods will achieve and are happy with starting this process

Costs of power growth will no longer be gradual and will be exponential. This is the only way to balance power in MMOs.
 

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

We do not plan to change anything about seasoned woods.
Their bonuses are much lower than historical hardness and weight benefits, and time to season is much lower than historical. 
 

I'm completely fine with the seasoned woods approach.  My only concern is the ability for all players to gain access to it at approximately the same time.  Apparently the Russians attended the PB at Morgan's Bluff in Seasoned wood ships (and lost).  It's really all about perception.  If players perceive that they are at a disadvantage, they are unhappy and we see that here and on Global (many tears on Global).  It's a good idea whose implementation SEEMs to be unfair.  The seasoning Shed (at the moment) seems to be very difficult to get and it would have been nice if you had implemented an upgrade/refit option for all of our old ships which are now perceived to be obsolete.

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49 minutes ago, admin said:

We do not plan to change anything about seasoned woods.
Their bonuses are much lower than historical hardness and weight benefits, and time to season is much lower than historical. 
We know what these woods will achieve and are happy with starting this process

Costs of power growth will no longer be gradual and will be exponential. This is the only way to balance power in MMOs.
 

And why do we need this hut and permit stuff for it?

At best it will give a temporary incentive for more ow traveling, as far as I can tell.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

We do not plan to change anything about seasoned woods.
Their bonuses are much lower than historical hardness and weight benefits, and time to season is much lower than historical. 
We know what these woods will achieve and are happy with starting this process

Costs of power growth will no longer be gradual and will be exponential. This is the only way to balance power in MMOs.
 

Like I said, I don't see a problem with the idea. Seasoned/aged/cured wood is a real thing. And, an earlier post was absolutely right - a significant portion of the wood set aside would end up warped or damaged.

With that being said, isn't there a better mechanism for implementation? Why not have a simulated timer on the woods in your warehouse, where you can tag it for seasoning, and wait for a "real world" month (or whatever) before using it? Or a timer on a ship built out of it?

What I'm saying is - anything to reduce the grind. Anything to reduce the potential that this elite upgrade is only for elite players/clans/nations.

But...the idea is sound in theory and in history.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Costs of power growth will no longer be gradual and will be exponential. This is the only way to balance power in MMOs.
 

Well, I disagree. First, you should have a working, dynamic economy. The economy we have is static and resources are available without limitation. It will end up in inflation no matter what. 

Adding another tier of gear bonus won't help with balancing. The opposite is true. You do not level the slope, but increase its length. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Costs of power growth will no longer be gradual and will be exponential. This is the only way to balance power in MMOs.

We'll see how much balance that creates ...

 

But lets just assume that it won't have the long term effect you want; lets assume, that the use of seasoned woods becomes the meta of ow pvp and rvr, or to put it differently the standard of shipbuilding - like it ironically was, back in the days, at least in a navy worth it's salt.

What would you do than? Would you just raise the costs or conduct other measures that set new standards and diminish the quality of the former best gear - like it has been with the last patch of yours?

Or do you have other things in mind as a plan B?

I ask because It was utterly frustrating for me, to have my favourite ship being downgraded, by your move even without warning!

That is no good manner imo; even more so, since the game has (officially) left early access months ago!

It almost felt like the wipe you promised not to do.

If such thing would happen again I'm certain, that i quit the game for good.

Don't get me wrong: It is not my intention to blackmail or even threaten you, but i want you to recognize how some other players too, might have felt when your last patch hit the live server.

 

To all others: Sorry for me being sort of relentless and maybe annoying with my posts! I try to stop commenting on this behalf from now on. Please be lenient with me, if i fail to do so.

Edited by Navalus Magnus
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41 minutes ago, Obi-Heed Kenobi said:

 Why not have a simulated timer on the woods in your warehouse, where you can tag it for seasoning, and wait for a "real world" month (or whatever) before using it? 

A timer on wood while they "rot" / season in the warehouse is even worse and benefits alts even more.

A timer on every piece of wood might even to be to database heavy.

____________________

Go out hunt some privateer fleets with friends. Anyone can do that if he really wants to. I dont see any issue here. Its endgame content/gear. Havent seen that wow for example gives the newest tier of gear away for free. Go/sail to the dungeon and beat the monster/privateer fleet to get/craft the best gear.

but ofc mimimi give best gear for free is way easier. I do understand....

Edited by z4ys

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1 hour ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I'm completely fine with the seasoned woods approach.  My only concern is the ability for all players to gain access to it at approximately the same time.  Apparently the Russians attended the PB at Morgan's Bluff in Seasoned wood ships (and lost).  It's really all about perception.  If players perceive that they are at a disadvantage, they are unhappy and we see that here and on Global (many tears on Global).  It's a good idea whose implementation SEEMs to be unfair.  The seasoning Shed (at the moment) seems to be very difficult to get and it would have been nice if you had implemented an upgrade/refit option for all of our old ships which are now perceived to be obsolete.

If you watched the battle, the seasoned woods didn’t play much of a factor.  They dove the forts.  You will see a significant snowball effect in brawling fights.  They are just that much better.  

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1 hour ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I'm completely fine with the seasoned woods approach.  My only concern is the ability for all players to gain access to it at approximately the same time.  Apparently the Russians attended the PB at Morgan's Bluff in Seasoned wood ships (and lost).  It's really all about perception.  If players perceive that they are at a disadvantage, they are unhappy and we see that here and on Global (many tears on Global).  It's a good idea whose implementation SEEMs to be unfair.  The seasoning Shed (at the moment) seems to be very difficult to get and it would have been nice if you had implemented an upgrade/refit option for all of our old ships which are now perceived to be obsolete.

You can't base an opinion on seasoned woods based on a shallow PB where the forts have 42p guns. Off course to a 42p square fort what kind of wood small 6th or 5th rate is made of is not too relevant. 

Edited by Never
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14 minutes ago, Stars and Stripes said:

Ps. The numbers are up.....

Depend on from where you make the cut. One month dosent make the Numbers rice. Lets see in a couple of months. 
For me personally the around 15 ppl I played with, 1 is left. Me, Well last week I guess around 4 hours in the game.

But admin said stable around where we are now is fine. Think the game can hold Numbers like that.

Edited by Bryan Von Gyldenloeve

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20 minutes ago, Stars and Stripes said:

 

Ps. The numbers are up.....

I would guess this is why the numbers are up, it hasn't been like this for a long time. Recently it's changed and I hope it stays like this. But 'moaning' or 'crying' crowds (or as Admin likes to call them 'trolls'; tend to write bad reviews. 

Naval.jpg

Edited by Never
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