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Seasoned Woods poll

Do you like the addition of seasoned woods?  

231 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the addition of seasoned woods?

    • Yes
    • No
    • I like the general idea but would (slightly) adjust them, by.. (post below)
  2. 2. Do you believe it will create an imbalance?



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are making the game unplayable gentlemen want us from the game to close it.. no longer sold and we are a hassle indefensible AI battles new absurd woods etc and the game is supposed to be finished and released.. they want to make and close it just  

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take 25 grap npc first rates , put fire ship fittings on it and than drive to russian season wood first rate fleet and bomb them.ūüėāmonths of work, broken into a single battle, who wants to have fun with this game is my question?

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9 minutes ago, Real Pit Pinsel said:

take 25 grap npc first rates , put fire ship fittings on it and than drive to russian season wood first rate fleet and bomb them.ūüėāmonths of work, broken into a single battle, who wants to have fun with this game is my question?

Next year update... explosion proof super seasoned wood! 

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Seasoned woods are a first step in the proper multiplayer progression systems.
There will be more a lot more interesting and exciting ways to spend money added every week in part 2 of development roadmap. 

Having old systems (based on weight or historical prices) were naive and just led to frustration and upset.
Previously 10% increase in power had 10% increase in cost (sometimes less - we were so stupid). This systems never worked without real life risks and real life limit in player life, health, limits in resources and human power. It was good for a lobby based game but was bad for a massively multiplayer sandbox. 

New systems are solving this and any increase in power will come with much bigger increases in cost or effort. 
It was announced long ago (17th of July) and will come in one large free expansion called  "Unfinished Business

 

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1 hour ago, Snoopy said:

Please don't do a MMO like classic WoW. The grind to stay at the sharp end was unbearable.

We will give you a simple example of cost projection

Original prices based on displacement (numbers for example only)
heavy 5th rate cost index - 1000 (based on 1000 tons)
1st rate cost index - 3000 (based on 3000 tons)

If nobody is running 1v1
Chances for 5th rate to sink 1st rate = 5%
Chances for 1st rate to sink 5th rate = 95%

You get the idea of the old problem. cost growth 3x - power growth 19x. Which means in that example cost index should be 1000x versus 19,000x 

It was partially corrected before release during cannon rebalance (with introduction of doubloons) - but its unfinished and is still weak.
Power is too cheap for groups and too expensive for solo player , BUT the proper design gives equal power per player. 

Thats why seasoning is amazing (well maybe not amazing but a great first step to giving more power for individual effort).

  • It reduces the power of logging in and clicking (ridiculously expensive click for seasoned woods) - you cant ask just¬†25 players to login and click as it is STILL too expensive
  • increases power to sailing and fighting (free seasoned woods from chests for effort per player) - you can sail and sink privateers and get the woods for free

 2-3 haters who say seasoned woods are the push to sell more DLC are just blind - as you can get seasoned woods in game FOR FREE as free drop from fleets. 


 

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57 minutes ago, admin said:

We will give you a simple example of cost projection

Original prices based on displacement (numbers for example only)
heavy 5th rate cost index - 1000 (based on 1000 tons)
1st rate cost index - 3000 (based on 3000 tons)

If nobody is running 1v1
Chances for 5th rate to sink 1st rate = 5%
Chances for 1st rate to sink 5th rate = 95%

You get the idea of the old problem.
It was partially corrected before release during cannon rebalance (with introduction of doubloons) - but its unfinished and is still weak. Power is too cheap for groups and too expensive for solo players, BUT the proper design is that power cost should be equal per player.
 

Changes to the price/power curve I don't mind, I encourage you.. but I fear you are going to add layers on top rather than rebalance and escalate player time sinks to attain the top. This will not help solo players and only make the game more miserable for well organized crowds. The current level really is the max that is sustainable. (imho ofc).

BTW, a brainwave for something that adds grind and money sink but will perhaps make the seasoned woods bearable: bring back the old ship crafting notes (i forgot the name). The ones that were crafted using gold trade goods and added ship quality level per note to crafting results. Invest Gold => less RNG.

 

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14 minutes ago, Snoopy said:

but I fear you are going to add layers on top rather than rebalance and escalate player time sinks to attain the top. .

 

Thats exactly what we are doing. Layers on top

As we found by trial and error - DO NOT TOUCH WHAT PLAYERS ALREADY HAVE. It does not work - we tried twice.
So expect very very expensive historical 68lb carronades HMS Glatton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Glatton_(1795)  refit ;) and 42lb light Rainbow refits - which wont be available by organized clicking on building buttons. 

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I'll rephrase: Layers on top in terms of new mechanics = ok in my book, perhaps you can concoct something fun. :)

But the overall grind needs to come down for old stuff to keep the time requirement stable.. otherwise you have a tiny minority of people on the server sailing Glatton/X..  which makes the time you have to invest to code a feature/ship model that only ever a handful of people will see less efficient.

There is a danger you trap yourself in that power creep.

The first hardcore crafting revamp (fine woods) did cost a lot of players, myself included.
Hardcore MMO progress just isn't fun long term.. which is why it has gone out of fashion in games.

I beg of you don't crank the grind up too much.

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5 hours ago, admin said:

Thats why seasoning is amazing (well maybe not amazing but a great first step to giving more power for individual effort).

  • It reduces the power of logging in and clicking (ridiculously expensive click for seasoned woods) - you cant ask just¬†25 players to login and click as it is STILL too expensive
  • increases power to sailing and fighting (free seasoned woods from chests for effort per player) - you can sail and sink privateers and get the woods for free

 2-3 haters who say seasoned woods are the push to sell more DLC are just blind - as you can get seasoned woods in game FOR FREE as free drop from fleets. 

I believe you believe it, however there's one more effect seasoned woods have:

  • they increase the power of DLC's, as by logging in every day and clicking to break up yous ships, on average you can get the same amount, or more of GOOD seasoned wood of your choosing, as from sailing and crafting

The effect - people with DLC's have the advantage, and clans of people with DLC have even more advantage. You should remove drops of S wood from breaking DLC ships, then game will stop being "pay to win".

Edited by vazco
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5 minutes ago, vazco said:
  • they increase the power of DLC's, as by logging in every day and breaking up yous ships, on average you can get the same amount of GOOD seasoned wood of your choosing, as from sailing, or clicling

I’ve been breaking Teak(S)/Teak(S) ships for the 4 day and received only 54 woods. I have all DLC ships. I'm tired. I won’t do it anymore.

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Just now, Yettie said:

I’ve been breaking Teak(S)/Teak(S) ships for the 4 day and received only 54 woods. I have all DLC ships. I'm tired. I won’t do it anymore.

Good :) It gives us an advantage over you, as we had better success rate as a whole clan.

Big numbers reduce the luck factor.

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4 minutes ago, Yettie said:

I’ve been breaking Teak(S)/Teak(S) ships for the 4 day and received only 54 woods. I have all DLC ships. I'm tired. I won’t do it anymore.

Pure (un)luck. In a week after introducing Seasoned Woods I have around 150-200 Fir(S), 50 Teak(S), some Bermuda(S) and White Oak(S) purely from DLC and Admiralty ships (Admiralty are selling some ships built from Seasoned Wood sometimes). And I have just 2 DLC ships
 

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18 minutes ago, Malcolm3 said:

Pure (un)luck. In a week after introducing Seasoned Woods I have around 150-200 Fir(S), 50 Teak(S), some Bermuda(S) and White Oak(S) purely from DLC and Admiralty ships (Admiralty are selling some ships built from Seasoned Wood sometimes). And I have just 2 DLC ships
 

As a clan we have ~3000 S white oak from breaking up DLC ships, and ~3000 S from hunting privateer ships. That's about it when it comes to stats.

 

The second was only possible because we found a way to do privateer missions alone. In case of a less skilled people, or those who don't want to risk, we do them in groups of two.

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23 minutes ago, vazco said:

As a clan we have ~3000 S white oak from breaking up DLC ships, and ~3000 S from hunting privateer ships. That's about it when it comes to stats.

 

The second was only possible because we found a way to do privateer missions alone. In case of a less skilled people, or those who don't want to risk, we do them in groups of two.

Privateer fleets? Successfully alone?¬†Bloody hell¬†ūüĎć

I thought I was good at PVE :(

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10 hours ago, Custard said:

Privateer fleets? Successfully alone?¬†Bloody hell¬†ūüĎć

I thought I was good at PVE :(

Kinda want to see this in video.  I bet they use up the whole clock and spread them out big time?

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Because 8 guys who have no life and play naval action way more than its healthy can do it, doesn’t mean the rest of the player base has to deal with it

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3 minutes ago, Simon Cadete said:

Because 8 guys who have no life and play naval action way more than its healthy can do it, doesn’t mean the rest of the player base has to deal with it

This casual vs no life card has been overused so much - it does not work anymore here. 
The battle lasts 1h 30 mins for EVERYONE. If you are casual or no lifer. If someone can do it you can do it. 

ps.. having said that i cant still beat the final exam record and demasting record 


 

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fireship detonations make wood type in general irrelevant (and individual skill, tactics, and overall strategy) anyway, so whats the big deal?

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I dislike the seasoned woods as they will enlarge the gap between the casual and the full time players further.

What we need in this game are equal ships, no mods or such stuff. Maybe slightly improved stats with a trained crew (which has to be kept alive, else the bonus dies with the crew).

No one should sail "super ships", that will win a battle due to their superior stats, when the captain's skills are equal.

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10 hours ago, admin said:

This casual vs no life card has been overused so much - it does not work anymore here. 
The battle lasts 1h 30 mins for EVERYONE. If you are casual or no lifer. If someone can do it you can do it. 

ps.. having said that i cant still beat the final exam record and demasting record 


 

Perhaps it's "overused" for a reason? Maybe the concerns are still the same?

More layers are ok. But please stop adding more layers of gear and bonus. It throws the game out of balance even more.

We do not need more loot drop mechanics. The loot drop is unrealistic and that alienates people. It is perceived as "hard grind", because it does not make any sense. The only purpose for this features is the loot. This is illogic. It feels wrong, dull and gets boring quickly. Give things a purpose and it will be perceived differently. 

The seasoned woods are a prime example of illogics. 

  • Why do seasoned woods drop from "privateer fleets"
  • Why are the stats of seasoned woods so incredibly better, where is the balance?
  • Why are these privateer fleets only at certain locations?¬†
  • Why do these privateers have agreesive AI?
  • Why do these privateers have insane open world speed bonus?
  • Why do privateers drop permits for sheds?
  • Why do players need a permit for a shed building, but none for an academy or a shipyard?
  • Why does putting woods into a shed cost so many doubloons, whereas building a complete 5th rate costs zero?¬†
  • What do privateers have to do with seasoning woods in the first place?¬†

If I could find answers to 50% of these questions, I'd buy it as "yea, makes sense somehow". Perhaps I am the only one, but to me it is important that what you do in a game makes sense. I mean, I can accept magic if magic is part of the game. But it's not in NA. Therefore, I have serious troubles with Loki runes in a game that claims to be "realistic" and "hardcore". To me, the Loki is just a trolling thing. It deceives players. The opponent you are fighting is not the one you think it is. Deceiving players is the worst idea you could have in my point of view. 

The open world speed boost points are not better. They create situations in which one player has a great advantage over another one in the same spot. Why is a wind boost timer bound? Why does it continue to work even when you are far away from the strong wind zone? Illogic. 

It seems that newly implemented features drift further and further away from logic. In the past, there have been new features that actually made sense somehow. Sunken fleet for instance. Player port raids are also understandable. Please do not lose touch of your game scenario. 

Perhaps seasoned woods can actually be carried by ships. For instance, every now and then there is a supply fleet to supply building materials from Europe to the shipyards in the Caribbean. Then, you could let them sail through the caribbean and players could try and catch it? I'd buy that. The sheds are still illogic, so they'd have to be removed altogether or given away for free without permit. 

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13 hours ago, admin said:

This casual vs no life card has been overused so much - it does not work anymore here. 
The battle lasts 1h 30 mins for EVERYONE. If you are casual or no lifer. If someone can do it you can do it. 

I am neither of those (I get a few hours per working day and somewhat more on weekends).  It's not that I CAN'T do it, although I don't really practice mass AI destruction.  It's that I don't WANT to fight AI Fleets.  If I wanted to fight AI fleets, I would live on the Peace server.  Those guys have made destroying multiple 1st Rates in a row boat into an art form.  The problem is, that it is becoming compulsory to fight AI on the War server.  I feel that this is an unnatural culture change on the PVP side with AI attacking players (OW or AI PB).  Soon, everyone will have their Seasoning sheds (the price is dropping) and then the roving AI fleets will just be a nuisance. Noobs can be protected by increasing the size of the Capitol zones.

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btw, although i crafted a few seasoned wood ships by now, i did not yet sail any, since i did not get the variants i wanted (very fast/ 4/5 or better). i was not willing to burn a set of elite mods on "standard" seasoned ships. should i loose some of my normal ships, i might do that to replace them. it might take some time tho untill you get a seasoned wood build thats actually better then your normal ships, considering upgrade slots and special trim. and it is soooo expensive to build them, you really have to get lucky since you cant simply roll and roll out builds until you get something worthwhile (at least i cant afford that)

this is just to show that even if you have access to seasoned wood, it doesnt mean you are sailing better ships ;D

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19 hours ago, admin said:

ps.. having said that i cant still beat the final exam record and demasting record 

 

its because players know the game better than developers :p

This is one of the best videos ive seen in a long time. The real time reaction of a 2 devs watching players "abuse" the game. 

Can you tell us a secret please??? What was the most extreme case of players in naval action abusing a system you did not expect after implementing it? 

 

 

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On 12/8/2019 at 5:43 AM, admin said:

...

- as you can get seasoned woods in game FOR FREE as free drop from fleets.

However, not everyone enjoy the given choice to either sail around the whole days in groups of 1rst rates, or build ships which are from the beginning of inferior material.
There are a lot of players who prefer to sail in smaller ships. And that maybe not in large groups.
(due the "farm"-style, it has a different dimension than for RvR matters from time to time sail in a 1st rate)

By this way, we are again forced to do something over a long time, what we perhaps not like to do. Not just the best way in a game ....

Edited by Holm Hansen
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