Seasoned Woods poll

[z4ys]

29 minutes ago, admin said:

 

We balance for light breeze that's why rattlesnake is faster currently. If and when we implement wind power it will become more varied, and there will be cases where 1st rates catch everyone.

 

Will we get proper sailing profiles as well?

[Slim McSauce]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

We balance for light breeze that's why rattlesnake is faster currently. If and when we implement wind power it will become more varied, and there will be cases where 1st rates catch everyone.

You did not balance for any type of wind except the one we have. If you did balance for a "light breeze" a 3rd rate's sails would not fill completely as they do. The ship would have a max speed of 14kts but only reach 10. Light ships would be using all their performance and not even be measured in performance the same way as ships of the line.

A light ship speed would be determined how strong it's masts are, and how stable it's shape is from capsize in heavy gusts, where it's performance is strained.
A heavy ship would not have to worry about it's mast breaking or capsize as much, and would be a more straight forward measurement.

If you ever did decide to go the wind route. It would be almost too late. You've filled all performance niches with gear bonuses.
Your gear determines how fast your ship goes, not the wind or the conditions of battle.
 

[William Death]

2 hours ago, admin said:

If and when we implement wind power it will become more varied, and there will be cases where 1st rates catch everyone.

I look forward to variable wind speeds.

Can you tie in mast HP to wind speed? 

So if you set too many sails and the wind is too strong, your masts might carry away (or be shot away very very easily)?

I think this could be good for depth of combat. If you sail a ship and set all sails, you might be faster than the ship sailing more conservatively, but turn your yards too hard into the wind or have a cannonball hit your mast and it falls.

The chase scene from Patrick O'Brian's Desolation Island comes to mind. I've quoted the relevant part here:

[Context: the Leopard has been stalked by the Waakzaamheid for quite some time. In rough weather in the roaring 40s, the Waakzaamheid is closing in. Jack has just pointed a stern chaser and it fired...]

Quote

 

But for a moment he could not understand the cheering that filled the cabin, deafening his ears: then through the shattered deadlights he saw the Dutchman’s foremast lurch, lurch again, the stays part, the mast and sail carry away right over the bows.

The Leopard reached the crest. Green water blinded him. It cleared, and through the bloody haze running from his cloth he saw the vast breaking wave with the Waakzaamheid broadside on its curl, on her beam-ends, broached to. An enormous, momentary turmoil of black hull and white water, flying spars, rigging that streamed wild for a second, and then nothing at all but the great hill of green-grey with foam racing upon it.

‘My God, oh my God,’ he said. ‘Six hundred men.’

 

Its fictional....but I think it could probably happen. 

 

Would be cool to see that in the game.

Also, I highly recommend that book. The building suspense as Waakzaamheid chases Leopard through the roaring 40s is top-notch writing, as is the norm with the Aubrey-Maturin series.

[Malcolm3]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Speed fit Bellona cannot compete for speed with long hull frigates in our game and could not catch endymion in reality. But Bellona (properly fitted) can outrun any shorter ships - which is correct and historical. Because main determinant of speed is hull length and sail power to this length and weight. 

A properly built 74 could be faster than any light ship due to hull speed and number of sails (power to weight). 2nd rates quickly died out because they were costly but did not have broadside weight per length). 

PS
We balance for light breeze that's why rattlesnake is faster currently. If and when we implement wind power it will become more varied, and there will be cases where 1st rates catch everyone.

If and when you implement that, then everyone will sail speedfit 3rd rates, because we don't have historical limitations due to needs for crew, upkeep and wear, and because people will always try to sail the best possible ship. So you have to balance it some way, so the frigates and light ships still be usable. And it has to be done not only with raising cost for heavy ships - that just adds more grind and doesn't resolve probled of DLC 3rd rates you are planning to introduce - such ship being able to outrun and catch frigate will rule the sea (good for money, but bad for the game).

P. S. You are trying to make more historical and realistic mechanics for sailing, gunnery and other things very important for tactical battles (instance) - that's good. But everyone lives in OW, and so there you should also introduce more historical and realistic mechanics both for realistic OW sailing (proper storms, shallows, possibility of get wrecked etc) and boring maintenance issues (economy, supply, upkeep, recruiting crew, tropical diseases) etc.

[Rolando]

8 hours ago, admin said:

Those who think 74s cannot out run frigates are mistaken (deeply) 

Naval Action need Montanes

And 3d rate (74), Redutable and Implacable need more speed then 10,6

Edited December 7, 2019 by Rolando

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

10 hours ago, admin said:

Those who think 74s cannot out run frigates are mistaken (deeply) This misconception also influenced us initially. Not anymore. Its incorrect and we suggest everyone to burn this outdated and incorrect standard out of their mind 

If you read any real literature on the age of sail by the end of 1820 only 3 classes left. Building ships longer than 65-70 meters was impossible, building shorter ships was useless. 

Design settled on the best determinant for success of the vessel = max broadside weight per length = which gave best speed and firepower for class.

• Long one deckers (heavy and super frigates) (fastest)
• Long 2 deckers (3rd rates) 
• Long 3 deckers (1st rates) 

Speed fit Bellona cannot compete for speed with long hull frigates in our game and could not catch endymion in reality. But Bellona (properly fitted) can outrun any shorter ships - which is correct and historical. Because main determinant of speed is hull length and sail power to this length and weight. 

A properly built 74 could be faster than any light ship due to hull speed and number of sails (power to weight). 2nd rates quickly died out because they were costly but did not have broadside weight per length). 

PS
We balance for light breeze that's why rattlesnake is faster currently. If and when we implement wind power it will become more varied, and there will be cases where 1st rates catch everyone.

 

could these bellona also repair to 100% sails after a couple of frigates did some chain-work on them? Every 5 min. of course. And recruit new sailors from salt-water? I dearly love your/our game, but you should pay attention with making realism on some sides while keeping fantasy on others. Humbly, Gene

[Navalus Magnus]

@admin I like your ideas of implementing different wind strengths!

Could we also get storms, which wreck ships if the sails aren’t trimmed or the vessels isn’t manoevered properly relative to huge incoming waves?

[Navalus Magnus]

11 hours ago, admin said:

there will be cases where 1st rates catch everyone

I don’t think, that this is a good idea:

Granted, long and heavy ships have an advantage over shorter and lighter vessels, when it comes to strong winds or even storms.

But the difference between a superfrigate and a first rate in terms of hull length is not that much, and should be mitigated by the the differences in width, draught and available area of sails.

That in mind I doubt let’s say the HMS Victory could have caught up with the USS Constitution under any circumstances.

In addition you should think about how you want to balance ships ingame imo - if first rates would be the most tanky, damagedealing and fastest (although limited to certain windconditions), why should we sail anything different?

Edited December 7, 2019 by Navalus Magnus

[Nooop]

They nerfed DLC breakup wood yield! Now you get nothing but trash.

[Malcolm3]

4 minutes ago, Nooop said:

They nerfed DLC breakup wood yield! Now you get nothing but trash.

It depends. Today I received from breaking DLC and Admiralty ships around 150 Seasoned Logs. 

Just RNG... 

[Angus MacDuff]

9 hours ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

could these bellona also repair to 100% sails after a couple of frigates did some chain-work on them? Every 5 min. of course. And recruit new sailors from salt-water? I dearly love your/our game, but you should pay attention with making realism on some sides while keeping fantasy on others. Humbly, Gene

Yeah, leave smaller ships as faster or else the meta will become nothing but 3rd rate and above....#savesomelovefor5thrates 

[Real Pit Pinsel]

People who like to do PVP are forced to PVE and I do not see that. One would have to be able to earn the wood just as much with PVP missions.

[Maol]

the way we collect this new wood and permit is bad. We have enought farm on AI don't add this PLZ.
The rest of the patch is good.

[Capitan Salazar]

My greatest fear is seasoned woods will be used against me and others like me to exclude us from some missions and activities.

I was told in the past "sorry fella, you don't have good ships and/or modifications". Will I suffer from this happening again?

[Angus MacDuff]

1 hour ago, Real Pit Pinsel said:

People who like to do PVP are forced to PVE and I do not see that. One would have to be able to earn the wood just as much with PVP missions.

Much like the Peace server players who hate the thought of forced PVP, we on the PVP server (at least some of us) hate the concept of forced PVE.

[Real Pit Pinsel]

In the past, golden ships were normal and people always fought each other and now you have 20 million gold ships in the harbor like museum pieces if you're lucky enough to get a golden one, I built a good 200 and it was not a golden one How should one remain competitive in the pvp?

[Mouth of Sauron]

technically you're not forced to PVE.  You're just forced to buy the DLCs   🙂

[Real Pit Pinsel]

2 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

technically you're not forced to PVE.  You're just forced to buy the DLCs   🙂

buy and you become your wood xD. randomly

Edited December 8, 2019 by Real Pit Pinsel

[R3volv3R]

are making the game unplayable gentlemen want us from the game to close it.. no longer sold and we are a hassle indefensible AI battles new absurd woods etc and the game is supposed to be finished and released.. they want to make and close it just  

[Real Pit Pinsel]

take 25 grap npc first rates , put fire ship fittings on it and than drive to russian season wood first rate fleet and bomb them.😂months of work, broken into a single battle, who wants to have fun with this game is my question?

[Never]

9 minutes ago, Real Pit Pinsel said:

take 25 grap npc first rates , put fire ship fittings on it and than drive to russian season wood first rate fleet and bomb them.😂months of work, broken into a single battle, who wants to have fun with this game is my question?

Next year update... explosion proof super seasoned wood! 

[admin]

Seasoned woods are a first step in the proper multiplayer progression systems.
There will be more a lot more interesting and exciting ways to spend money added every week in part 2 of development roadmap. 

Having old systems (based on weight or historical prices) were naive and just led to frustration and upset.
Previously 10% increase in power had 10% increase in cost (sometimes less - we were so stupid). This systems never worked without real life risks and real life limit in player life, health, limits in resources and human power. It was good for a lobby based game but was bad for a massively multiplayer sandbox. 

New systems are solving this and any increase in power will come with much bigger increases in cost or effort. 
It was announced long ago (17th of July) and will come in one large free expansion called  "Unfinished Business

 

[Snoopy]

Please don't do a MMO like classic WoW. The grind to stay at the sharp end was unbearable.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Snoopy said:

Please don't do a MMO like classic WoW. The grind to stay at the sharp end was unbearable.

We will give you a simple example of cost projection

Original prices based on displacement (numbers for example only)
heavy 5th rate cost index - 1000 (based on 1000 tons)
1st rate cost index - 3000 (based on 3000 tons)

If nobody is running 1v1
Chances for 5th rate to sink 1st rate = 5%
Chances for 1st rate to sink 5th rate = 95%

You get the idea of the old problem. cost growth 3x - power growth 19x. Which means in that example cost index should be 1000x versus 19,000x 

It was partially corrected before release during cannon rebalance (with introduction of doubloons) - but its unfinished and is still weak.
Power is too cheap for groups and too expensive for solo player , BUT the proper design gives equal power per player. 

Thats why seasoning is amazing (well maybe not amazing but a great first step to giving more power for individual effort).

• It reduces the power of logging in and clicking (ridiculously expensive click for seasoned woods) - you cant ask just 25 players to login and click as it is STILL too expensive
• increases power to sailing and fighting (free seasoned woods from chests for effort per player) - you can sail and sink privateers and get the woods for free

 2-3 haters who say seasoned woods are the push to sell more DLC are just blind - as you can get seasoned woods in game FOR FREE as free drop from fleets. 

 

[Snoopy]

57 minutes ago, admin said:

We will give you a simple example of cost projection

Original prices based on displacement (numbers for example only)
heavy 5th rate cost index - 1000 (based on 1000 tons)
1st rate cost index - 3000 (based on 3000 tons)

If nobody is running 1v1
Chances for 5th rate to sink 1st rate = 5%
Chances for 1st rate to sink 5th rate = 95%

You get the idea of the old problem.
It was partially corrected before release during cannon rebalance (with introduction of doubloons) - but its unfinished and is still weak. Power is too cheap for groups and too expensive for solo players, BUT the proper design is that power cost should be equal per player.
 

Changes to the price/power curve I don't mind, I encourage you.. but I fear you are going to add layers on top rather than rebalance and escalate player time sinks to attain the top. This will not help solo players and only make the game more miserable for well organized crowds. The current level really is the max that is sustainable. (imho ofc).

BTW, a brainwave for something that adds grind and money sink but will perhaps make the seasoned woods bearable: bring back the old ship crafting notes (i forgot the name). The ones that were crafted using gold trade goods and added ship quality level per note to crafting results. Invest Gold => less RNG.