SAFETY OFF - Raiders Start Attacking Ports

[erelkivtuadrater]

1 hour ago, admin said:

You can capture a 1st rate for free  Just like it was long before release. Its how it is supposed to be. All ships except for premium exclusive vessels can now be captured for your own use. Players did not ask for it but the majority actually wanted that.

In terms of crafting the easiness of crafting first rates was always a main concern of players. If you search the forum - there are 100s of posts asking to limit first rates, there are even proposals to limit first rates by 2 per nation. Its ridiculous that we were even reading them seriously and responding to them. Can you imagine if we listened and limited 1st rates to 22 players (earning 22*40 = 880 dollars) locking out all other 150,000 players from the wonderful creations - the carriers or spaceships of the age of sail.

We know first rate can be crafted with just one friend in a reasonable amount of time. Now it is possible to do without hauling (in some ports)

its good that you can craft them with one friend, but i dont think its good that you can sit in a port, login for 2-3 days and collect resources and THEN craft the ship without doing something ingame content, imo the permits for 2nd and 1st rates are to easily obtainable. People are swimming in VM and i've yet to see someone doing epic events and telling me about the awesome loot that player got. I remember before, when it came out and some stuff was obtainable through epic events that made them exciting, it was all about that "Oh where is it?! Lets do it before 4 other guys starts it" But its not like that anymore.

Now we're just waiting for our forests, grass and metal to grow while buying VM from afk trading and then craft a gold LO|WO  l'ocean for maybe? 2 hours gametime?

[Macjimm]

On 11/20/2019 at 1:52 PM, admin said:

 

You should look at it this way. We always (from the start of early prototyping in 2014) stated that the game will have basic crafting and basic trading. It is in game.

Its the best we can do..

• We always say we have the best looking ships and best age of sail combats with leeway and yards. 
• We NEVER said we have the best crafting. We have basic crafting and basic trading just barely enough to support the feature described above. Take a good from a deliver to point b - that's it. Gather resources - click a button - that's it. We never advertised the game as a crafting game. There was no a single ad for naval action which mentioned crafting. Trailer has no workers hitting hammers, or gathering tobacco. Texts say you can build ships and thats it.

This is literally what is said about trading and crafting.

Trading and privateering – Buy trading goods at low prices, haul them to distant places for high profits. Board ships and sell them and their cargo at nearby ports. Use shallow waters at your advantage to escape from larger ships. Shipbuilding and manufacturing - Build ships, upgrades and cannons, supply your clans or your nation or set up shops in free towns to sell to your enemies.

We have 15 detailed paragraphs on combat and 2 sentences on trading and crafting. Better crafting is not there, was not there, was not advertised anywhere. 
This is all we have

• Buy goods at low prices and haul them to distant places = check
• Board ships and sell cargo = check
• Build ships = check
• Supply your clans or your nations with... (repairs, ships, cannons) = check

Crafting was proposed by players in 2015 and added because players requested it (in original pre-launch version you were a naval officer or a pirate, you could only capture ships from others or buy them from the government). When basic buildings and crafting was added players were happy with at least some crafting because previously they had nothing. 

Given the facts stated above - we have basic crafting and advertised basic crafting - why people are unhappy with it??

You can accept it as it is. Or ask for removal. We are focused on new player retention and NPC aggression. Crafting is not on the priority list and will remain as is, with only minor changes. We can remove it if it is annoying everyone. Hope this brings it into proper perspective. We can keep it as is - or cut it. 

I am 100x more interested in fixing battle sails, adding wind shadow, adding non-binary rudder, adding hull leeway, rig entanglement in close counters, wind strength and variety, barometer - to predict wind change and direction ... you get the idea what i am good at, best age of sail combat and best looking ships.

I am also wondering how i can make this combat trading refit into the game without ruining FPS. 
 

Why should I think about crafting? Can someone popularly explain as I am five? From all i read it sucks, trading sucks and if i was a medical doctor i would just amputate and removed the aching leg to stop the gangrene of bad opinions from spreading. No crafting = no problem of bad reviews.

To summarize
Crafting can be improved - probably. Can it be done without research and iteration - No. Are current customers of crafting happy? Based on the forums - No. Is there risk in changing crafting - Yes huge risk. Did those customers bash us, expressed outrage and punish us for risky changes - yes. Based on this answers crafting should not be touched.

We do not believe in changes in crafting because community got tired of experiments. Will it be better if we cut out crafting completely? No. So let it be as is.. Crafting its not the best but its ok and it will be worse without it for those who like it as it is.

I'm very impressed with this response.  It is honest and straightforward.  Thank you very much for sharing this with us.  This plain langage confirms what I suspected, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it simply.  I suspect that the questions that Admin asked in the post above are rhetorical.   But after reading the whole post it seem clear that suggestions to improve trading will not be accepted kindly.  So I will offer no suggestions.

I like trading and sailing.  I have found a way to enjoy it in game.  If Gamelabs felt differently I would be very happy if trading was improved, but it is still fun the way it is.  I find buying and selling Goods in port shops boring, as well as Passengers and Cargo deliveries.  But selling stuff to players is still interesting. 

 

[admin]

4 hours ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

its good that you can craft them with one friend, but i dont think its good that you can sit in a port, login for 2-3 days and collect resources and THEN craft the ship without doing something ingame content, imo the permits for 2nd and 1st rates are to easily obtainable. People are swimming in VM and i've yet to see someone doing epic events and telling me about the awesome loot that player got. I remember before, when it came out and some stuff was obtainable through epic events that made them exciting, it was all about that "Oh where is it?! Lets do it before 4 other guys starts it" But its not like that anymore.

Now we're just waiting for our forests, grass and metal to grow while buying VM from afk trading and then craft a gold LO|WO  l'ocean for maybe? 2 hours gametime?

i agree.

[Macjimm]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

It's simple: Player-production-based economies sell games to certain kinds of players (see EVE, Albion, etc. etc.).

Now, I could argue that more and varied PvE content (missions, raids, exploration, etc.) also sells games, as do tools for more diverse and player-generated opportunities for intrigue ("clan-" or "corp-" or "war company-" based diplomacy, etc.), player-generated PvP (flag-based raid zones, small/large battle duel rooms, etc.), and many other types of content.

But it's your game to develop and I don't think anyone would argue against that.. but like you said, something half implemented, which constrains game play more than it enhances, is far worse than something not implemented at all. But rather than cutting trading, crafting, econ, and the OW as a whole out of the game, you chose to just dumb it down to the extent that it is mostly meaningless, un-fun grind. By doing so you drove out the players who were more into crafting and trading than into PvP, and have thus forced players that would rather do PvP/RvR do the meaningless, un-fun side of the game just to get to the stuff they want, which is a bad feedback cycle.

You said it yourself, you'd rather spend time doing technical sailing and combat development. The answer if you want to sell more copies is to hire people who are better equipped to design an MMO crafting and economy system, or alternatively, eliminate it entirely from the game.

How did put my name on the Admin's words?

 

[Macjimm]

Thanks Wraith. 

I respect the Admin's right to his/her own opinion, but I do not agree with it.  I prefer not to be associated with those statements.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

I'm very impressed with this response.  It is honest and straightforward.  Thank you very much for sharing this with us.  This plain langage confirms what I suspected, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it simply.  I suspect that the questions that Admin asked in the post above are rhetorical.   But after reading the whole post it seem clear that suggestions to improve trading will not be accepted kindly.  So I will offer no suggestions.

I like trading and sailing.  I have found a way to enjoy it in game.  If Gamelabs felt differently I would be very happy if trading was improved, but it is still fun the way it is.  I find buying and selling Goods in port shops boring, as well as Passengers and Cargo deliveries.  But selling stuff to players is still interesting. 

 

Our approach have changed since we started Game - Labs. We no longer are satisfied with just basic implementations.There are 3X better crafting and trading games like X3.  Everything we deliver must worth a stand alone game, this includes crafting.

Minor changes will of course be applied. 
In fact new building is coming live this or next week. 

[Malcolm3]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

You said it yourself, you'd rather spend time doing technical sailing and combat development. The answer if you want to sell more copies is to hire people who are better equipped to design an MMO crafting and economy system, or alternatively, eliminate it entirely from the game.

Yes, either establish workable OW system with proper trading and economy (crafting is more or less OK), or eliminate OW completely. That would be sad, but fair enough for many

Edited November 22, 2019 by Malcolm3
wrong word

[Dalai Lama]

2 hours ago, Malcolm3 said:

Yes, either establish workable OW system with proper trading and economy (crafting is more or less OK), or eliminate OW completely. That would be sad, but fair another for many

I bought Naval Action because its is a sandbox open world game. I agree that trading should be more meaningful, at least profitable and crafting a bit less RNG but I like the open world and would not like to play a lobby based game. NA Legends failed already why should it work now?

[Malcolm3]

14 minutes ago, Henry Durnin said:

I bought Naval Action because its is a sandbox open world game. I agree that trading should be more meaningful, at least profitable and crafting a bit less RNG but I like the open world and would not like to play a lobby based game. NA Legends failed already why should it work now?

Me too

But game now is more and more hanging in between and so alienates both parties (who wants sandbox OW and who wants to fight fight fight)

[huliotkd]

11 hours ago, admin said:

there are 100s of posts asking to limit first rates, there are even proposals to limit first rates by 2 per nation

no, not per nation but 2 per player. every player can store only 1 or 2  1st rates...if he wants the 3rd one he must choose which discard

[Conte D. Catellani]

7 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

no, not per nation but 2 per player. every player can store only 1 or 2  1st rates...if he wants the 3rd one he must choose which discard

what about a tax tonnage? Maybe the models have a weight and for sure devs have data about the real weight of these ships..

That could also be used to balance big nation fleets like the treated after the WWI

 

[huliotkd]

18 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

what about a tax tonnage? Maybe the models have a weight and for sure devs have data about the real weight of these ships..

That could also be used to balance big nation fleets like the treated after the WWI

 

no because earn money is too simple and don't solve the problem of 1st rates spam. look at Vera Cruz daily 3-6kk reals...even if you put a tax on tonnage the clan owning Vera Crux can cover all the expenses of every tonnage thay have so they still can have a spam of 10 1st rate for each account.

a reasonable limit to numbers of ship's tier for each account is the only solution to solve the spam: i suggested many times 1 1st rate , 2 2nd , 3 3rd rate, 4 4th rate and unlimited 5th-6th rates for each account, so even if you have 10 Alt you can store only 11 1st rates that is better than now where some players can store about 30 1st rates or more without consequences

[Conte D. Catellani]

i see, but also link the number of the ship type to the account could push players to use second account or the famous alts to store there the 1 rates

[Chromey]

its not the ship amount that is problem. Devs need to charge 1st place nation 100x price for crew, then 50x for 2nd place, then 20x for 3rd, then so on.

1100 x 400 = alot of grumbling russians!

[Capitan Salazar]

12 hours ago, admin said:

What were your rewards ? 

I'm a bit old to remember everything, many things in my head these days. For that I apologize, Sir.

Although I recall something like four combat medals and five thousand doubloons. I received all the marks of the victory cause they didn't need them.

For comparison purposes, I payed to the admiralty twenty medals for its permission and bought one upgrade worth another ten medals. When I crafted my ship I also had to give seven or eight thousand gold coins or whatever they are called.

I shared my experience with others and they also agreed with me in not going to this kind of dangerous mission again.

 

[huliotkd]

17 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

i see, but also link the number of the ship type to the account could push players to use second account or the famous alts to store there the 1 rates

and the second account will have always 1 slot for 1st rate, 2 for 2nd and so on. 

now, alt account are used to store 25 1st rate....each account...

[huliotkd]

11 minutes ago, Chromey said:

its not the ship amount that is problem. Devs need to charge 1st place nation 100x price for crew, then 50x for 2nd place, then 20x for 3rd, then so on.

1100 x 400 = alot of grumbling russians!

raising money isn't solution. reals are an unlimited resources and if you link the maintenance of ships to an unlimited resource you will have an unlimited maintenance so nothing will change.

the only way to limit things is to limit the slots for each account. the game will still be fun and more stimulating for players.   it is also needed a raise in resource requirements for crafting lineships, as i wrote in this thread

[AeRoTR]

I still think, the bigger the ship, the more repair and maintenance cost it requires. 

Just like bigger tanks in WOT without premium account, may be it should require dubloons for line ships

[qw569😳]

13 hours ago, admin said:

You can capture a 1st rate for free  Just like it was long before release. Its how it is supposed to be. All ships except for premium exclusive vessels can now be captured for your own use. Players did not ask for it but the majority actually wanted that.

In terms of crafting the easiness of crafting first rates was always a main concern of players. If you search the forum - there are 100s of posts asking to limit first rates, there are even proposals to limit first rates by 2 per nation. Its ridiculous that we were even reading them seriously and responding to them. Can you imagine if we listened and limited 1st rates to 22 players (earning 22*40 = 880 dollars) locking out all other 150,000 players from the wonderful creations - the carriers or spaceships of the age of sail.

We know first rate can be crafted with just one friend in a reasonable amount of time. Now it is possible to do without hauling (in some ports)

If I correctly translated the message, then you have no experience crafting the first rate on the War server. This fact makes me sad

Return to topic 

[22-11-2019 11:02 UTC] NPC port battle for port Nueva Barcelona (Verenigde Provinciën) will be started at 24 Nov 2019 12:00 UTC

Nueva Barcelona is not regional capital. So NPC raiders can attack any ports 😎

On 11/16/2019 at 6:56 AM, admin said:

Raiders attack rich ports based on a combinations of factors including investments and tax rate. Which means the attacked port can have zero investments but very high tax rate.

It look like random.

NPC raiders attack Nassau. But this port have low tax then Nouvelle-Orléans or Campeche

 

Russian Empire
Name	LastTax	PortPoints
Nassau	15648	55
Campeche	39517	55
Vera Cruz	2370863	55
Nouvelle-Orléans	3005687	55
Port-au-Prince	26255	50
Basse-Terre	2130	50
Río de la Hacha	563	50
Santa Marta	135435	50
Cartagena de Indias	275775	50
Tolú	0	50
Sisal	1274	50
Saint George's Town	2554036	50

 

It is very bad that there is no chance for a player to help the NPC choose the right port to attack.

Edited November 22, 2019 by qw569

[huliotkd]

8 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

I still think, the bigger the ship, the more repair and maintenance cost it requires. 

Just like bigger tanks in WOT without premium account, may be it should require dubloons for line ships

also.

we are now in the situation where we log in, choose 1 of our 4-5 1st rates, go in battle, log out, bored....so we are now in a Arena game like Wot or WoW.  crafting and trading lost their purpose so they are 2 mechanics for wasting time more than  being necessary for reaching an end game target. 

i understand that human resources of this game are limited (1 programmer) so we must suggest solution using what we already have but changing something like value of some numbers in codeline

[Conte D. Catellani]

using dubloons for repairing first rates  and maybe hire new crew is a good idea 

[huliotkd]

11 minutes ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

using dubloons for repairing first rates  and maybe hire new crew is a good idea 

it can be exploited.

i can cap an AI 1st rates, give it to my alt, attack my alt with main, surrend and sink the alt 1st rate, loot 3k-5k doublons....rinse and repeat

[erelkivtuadrater]

1 hour ago, huliotkd said:

the only way to limit things is to limit the slots for each account. the game will still be fun and more stimulating for players.   it is also needed a raise in resource requirements for crafting lineships, as i wrote in this thread

1 hour ago, huliotkd said:

and the second account will have always 1 slot for 1st rate, 2 for 2nd and so on. 

now, alt account are used to store 25 1st rate....each account...

 

think you countered yourself  @huliotkd

[huliotkd]

43 minutes ago, erelkivtuadrater said:

 

think you countered yourself  @huliotkd

not really, limiting slots for each accounts will limit also Alt account, that are actually a feature (wrong imo, but they are in the game) . so there is nothing by now able to solve the problem of Alt account so the only solution is to limit them limiting slots for ships rate.

today, if i have a main + 2 Alt i can store 30 + 25+25 ships (80 possible 1st rates), if my idea is developed i can have a main + 2 Alt where i can store only 3 1st rates (1 for each account). this is the best simple solution i found to solve the spam of lineships

[erelkivtuadrater]

50 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

not really, limiting slots for each accounts will limit also Alt account, that are actually a feature (wrong imo, but they are in the game) . so there is nothing by now able to solve the problem of Alt account so the only solution is to limit them limiting slots for ships rate.

today, if i have a main + 2 Alt i can store 30 + 25+25 ships (80 possible 1st rates), if my idea is developed i can have a main + 2 Alt where i can store only 3 1st rates (1 for each account). this is the best simple solution i found to solve the spam of lineships

think thats avoiding the problem on wrong therms, if the 1st and 2nd rate permits were dropped from chests from epic events and deadmans chests it would bring more encouragement to do those stuff especially the epic events since those arent notified globally where they are, you as a player have to discover them and it would create a natural limitation to the 1st rates, and also as i said encourage all players to do the epic events, its also something veterans with 10k hours of gametime can directly compete with new players of maybe 100hr gametime.