SAFETY OFF - Raiders Start Attacking Ports

[Liq]

Just now, admin said:

it cant be 3 mins

But

Points for capture zone entry have been slightly increased

• Combat ships now give 15 points instead of 10
• Trading Transports now give 325 points instead of 300

Even then, if 10 1st rates get in Circle its only 150 Points.

But NPC get 1 point per ship in a circle every 2 seconds - 300 pts per Minute

That means it will take 3 ish mins to get the remaining 850 points

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Liq said:

Even then, if 10 1st rates get in Circle its only 150 Points.

But NPC get 1 point per ship in a circle every 2 seconds - 300 pts per Minute

That means it will take 3 ish mins to get the remaining 850 points

i doubt the math you provide - because if it was happening all port battles would be lost on all servers to NPC all the time. 
But letting 10 ships (almost half of the fleet) is dangerous and you should not have let them sail to points

But I cannot check as i am still travelling on the paternal leave and people who work on the game are now sleeping in Europe. 
 

[Despe]

Well, in Nassau PB npcs take the port in 10 minutes aprox. Im not really sure, but not much more...

[Liq]

1 minute ago, admin said:

i doubt the math you provide - because if it was happening all port battles would be lost on all servers to NPC all the time. 
But I cannot check as i am still travelling on the paternal leave and people who work on the game are now sleeping in europe. 
 

I didnt record ours at saint johns - but it was over pretty fast in a few min once the 1st rates got to the circles. Also in the british one they managed to get to 800 pts with only very few 1st rates getting there.

Maybe @Anolytic can provide further info since they had more raids than us.

But i looked at the points counter - i think 1 point per ship in circle every 2 sec id pretty accurate, and if it is, the calculation (see few posts above) is correct

[admin]

9 hours ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

Well, think you are right. No clan would do that. Would proberbly upset ppl if clans started to do such things. Hope admin removed NPC Pb on war. They have no place there.

This feature will always be hated by strong nations. This was exactly the point of adding it. To provide balance and natural strong opponent. 
 It also provides content for many players (even if they do not participate in it directly). Losing Nassau to NPC IS CONTENT to all weaker or downtrodden players in all other nations. 

This feature is also easily avoided by doing multiple things alts already do

• Joining weaker nation (immune to NPC attacks on War server)
• Having a reserve lvl 4 investment port in a weak nation who will be protected by a strong nation
• Having ships built for this event (shallow ports of course require slightly different tactics
• Not have the fully invested port at all?

 

 

[admin]

46 minutes ago, Liq said:

 

But i looked at the points counter - i think 1 point per ship in circle every 2 sec id pretty accurate, and if it is, the calculation (see few posts above) is correct

Bug reports are reliable - A lot of posts are not.

I personally thought losing Nassau was considered impossible (as most of the NPC participants are somewhat vulnerable to OP carronades they do not carry). especially taking into account reports in another thread of the Uber ship SNOW (hms ontario) that can now win ANY fight against any ship at sea and on land, due to its turnrate and 32lb.  

We would check on the 3 mins in logs. But only tomorrow-  not today.

[Liq]

Imagine scenario

Nation X, clan A, gets a raider attack on their main crafting port Z and lose it

Port turns neutral.

Nation Y - at war with nation X - has alt accounts - clan B - ready in port Z to do hostility. 

Clan B captures port Z.

Clan B does not put any other clan on Friendlist.

That port is now unusable for nation X

[admin]

16 minutes ago, Liq said:

Imagine scenario

Nation X, clan A, gets a raider attack on their main crafting port Z and lose it

Port turns neutral.

Nation Y - at war with nation X - has alt accounts - clan B - ready in port Z to do hostility. 

Clan B captures port Z.

Clan B does not put any other clan on Friendlist.

That port is now unusable for nation X

It happens all the time in RL
Syria is now unusable by Nation X because of Nation Y proxy intervention. And vice versa Libya is not usable by Nation Y because of Nation X proxy (alt) intervention. the list of RL examples is endless from Latin america to Africa.

Why our wargame should be different? Should it be?
The ability to take over the port through neutrality or war or other means was proposed by players by the way, and we designed the feature to at least partially incorporate it. Neutral port could be retaken by a hostile clan. It is part of this feature. 
 
Maybe not all player suggestions are actually well thought trough for the long term health of the game and community discovers this over time; sometimes you need to take a fresh view. Maybe RVR is the major source of grief and hate and should be removed like @z4ys suggested. 
 

But this topic is not about the mechanics what happen after the port loss. Please set up a separate topic on this
This thread is about NPC port batttle mechanics, points, ship compositions etc. . Please stay on topic. 

 

[Busterbloodvessel]

54 minutes ago, admin said:

i doubt the math you provide - because if it was happening all port battles would be lost on all servers to NPC all the time. 
But letting 10 ships (almost half of the fleet) is dangerous and you should not have let them sail to points

But I cannot check as i am still travelling on the paternal leave and people who work on the game are now sleeping in Europe. 
 

I appreciate this is an older stream and things may have changed, but this sounds similar to events at Nassau. In this case from first AI points to lost battle took only 105 seconds (video time 13:12 to 14:57), all pretty swift. The shallow pbs look more difficult than the deep ones as sinking an Indiaman with a 1st rate is somewhat easier than the shallow equivalent.

Anyway, congratulations on the paternal news @admin, long life to all!

Buster

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Busterbloodvessel

[Koveras]

40 minutes ago, admin said:

This feature will always be hated by strong nations. This was exactly the point of adding it. To provide balance and natural strong opponent. 
 It also provides content for (even if they do not participate in it directly). Losing Nassau to NPC IS CONTENT to all weaker or downtrodden players in all other nations. 

This feature is also easily avoided by doing multiple things alts already do

• Joining weaker nation (immune to NPC attacks on War server)
• Having a reserve lvl 4 investment port in a weak nation. 
• Having ships built for this event (shallow ports of course require slightly different tactics

 

 

I think this would be easier if the clans, not the server, decided which ports were 55p ports, in short made it dependent on investments.

I'd still argue for the bonus' to be tied to the shipyard/crafter to allow greater diversity of ships/crafters as well as something to grind for when you're the richest man on the server(s).

[Captain2Strong]

10 hours ago, H982 FKL said:

VP is full of players that do not know how to brake using yards, do not know upwind from downwind, at times get confused with left and right, do not follow the order of PB commanders, often refuse to use TS even when in the port battle fleet, are too scared to get stuck in during the battle or just don't speak English. AND that's just the players who are at least willing to show up for RvR. The rest are just useless carebears that do nothing to help but are  the first to complain when they lost their carebear port. El Toco is a great example, while we were struggling to fill the port battle (only four of whom were on TS) outside there were dutch players sitting on the docks in first and second rates wating for AI to come close enough to the square fort for them to tag. We had a fair few half decent captains with potential but they ran off to Sweden because they didn't like being told when they screwed up. Bloody sissies! 

lol, I'm glad that I don't even remember having this kind of experience so far
I knew that VP is awful but didn't expect it to be that bad XD
 

4 hours ago, Koveras said:

As to the use of an alt clan, I couldn't imagine anyone being rude enough to do that!!

you could really get surprised if someone had an opportunity to do that!
 

On 1/26/2020 at 10:53 PM, Anolytic said:

That comment clearly didn't age well. 

I was surprised about Saint John, but figured: It's a hard port layout, and swedes are not used to NPC raids. But after Nassau I inquired with Brits and even in Truxillo AI reached almost 800 points. Previously in our NPC raids if it wasn't bugged (Nassau) or we made some mistake, NPCs would not get any points. 

Now both the speed and pathfinding of NPC raiders have changed so that they are impossible to catch up to, impossible to intercept, impossible to block, and impossible to push out of their route. In Saint John and Truxillo there were clearly the same issues causing the difficulties as for us in Nassau. And since in Nassau the possible spawns are so far apart it makes it even more impossible than ports where all the NPC spawns are relatively closely grouped.

There's no lack of knowledge on our part. We knew that NPCs get points not just from reaching the circle, but from being in it. We knew that it's not enough to sink the traders (even though it has been officially stated that it is enough), but there was just no way of winning the PB.

There's no point in bothering with the NPC PBs if they're a default loss.

 

 

and yet you will buy next DLC regardless!
 

On 1/26/2020 at 10:53 PM, Anolytic said:

We knew that it's not enough to sink the traders (even though it has been officially stated that it is enough)

I'm not surprised about that!

Edited January 27, 2020 by Captain2Strong

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

 

Anyway, congratulations on the paternal news @admin, long life to all!

Buster

 

Thanks for kind wishes

Yes its an old video. Those NPCs had different points which was fixed before Safety was off

[admin]

9 minutes ago, Koveras said:

I think this would be easier if the clans, not the server, decided which ports were 55p ports, in short made it dependent on investments.

I'd still argue for the bonus' to be tied to the shipyard/crafter to allow greater diversity of ships/crafters as well as something to grind for when you're the richest man on the server(s).

We are considering adding another investment card allowing clans to add points themselves. But of course this could create more imbalance than advantages.. but it seems a very good feature on paper.
Which nation lars plays these days? Is the proposal for clan to control the points comes from weak or strong nation?

[Despe]

1 minute ago, admin said:

We are considering adding another investment card allowing clans to add points themselves.

oh interesting. What kind of card is it?

[admin]

5 minutes ago, Despe said:

oh interesting. What kind of card is it?

Just another investment card- investing into it increases the points of the port.

[Mr Pellew]

 

 

3 hours ago, admin said:

Maybe not all player suggestions are actually well thought trough for the long term health of the game and community discovers this over time; sometimes you need to take a fresh view. Maybe RVR is the major source of grief and hate and should be removed like @z4ys suggested. 

I totaly agree that many community suggestions are bad BUT there arte also good ones. Chaninging the frontline system and reducing BRs resulted in way more RvR. 

That being said, I agree with what was said above, sometimes the community suggests things that are not good for the game and if those thingsget implemented in any way shape or form there is no shame in scrapping them again if they do not work out.

2 hours ago, Anolytic said:

This is a completely bullshit idea that should've been dispelled months ago. 

1. If you want to do RvR in this game, you have to do it in a group.

2. Any decently organised group in this game, leaving their big nation to escape NPC port raids would inevitably fail because withing 1-2 months in their new nation - if they were half decent, they would again be a top 3 nation and again face NPC port raids before they could even start on their war goals. 

There is only a small handful of groups in this game that can afford the effort, organisation and immense cost that RvR entails, and these groups are doomed to always face NPC port raids if they want to take active part in RvR. 

I think Sweden is a decent example here, we just about got the nation together and working towards common goals in RvR and we already have players loosing interest in RvR/the game becuase of the NPC raids. 

3 hours ago, admin said:

It happens all the time in RL
Syria is now unusable by Nation X because of Nation Y proxy intervention. And vice versa Libya is not usable by Nation Y because of Nation X proxy (alt) intervention. the list of RL examples is endless from Latin america to Africa.

Why our wargame should be different? Should it be?

Yes, your wargame should be different, because games are played for fun and we already have a lot of freedom in the game which causes players to get upset becuase of gray areas in the rules/mechanics. 

I am NOT saying there should be a strict ruleset, however I think there should be no way a clan can loose it's port to an opposing nations alt clan without that port being taken by another nation in a PB before.

[Dark123]

5 hours ago, admin said:

. Losing Nassau to NPC IS CONTENT to all weaker or downtrodden players in all other nations. 

 

 

 

I play sweden

 

How is that content for me?

[GrubbyZebra]

4 minutes ago, Dark123 said:

I play sweden

 

How is that content for me?

because you have a fight either to defend the port, or recapture it. i.e. content.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Dark123 said:

I play sweden

How is that content for me?

As this is a developer forum we can share some secrets

There is whole list of emotions people can experience and A LOT .. REALLY A LOT of them can be experienced in Naval Action.

• Acceptance
• Affection
• Amusement
• Anger
• Angst
• Anguish
• Annoyance
• Anticipation
• Anxiety
• Apathy
• Arousal
• Awe
• Boredom
• Confidence
• Contempt
• Contentment
• Courage
• Cruelty
• Curiosity
• Depression
• Desire
• Despair
• Disappointment
• Disgust
• Distrust
• Ecstasy
• Embarrassment
• Empathy
• Enthusiasm
• Envy
• Euphoria
• Fear
• Frustration
• Gratification
• Gratitude
• Greed
• Grief
• Guilt
• Happiness
• Hatred
• Hope
• Horror
• Hostility
• Humiliation
• Interest
• Jealousy
• Joy
• Kindness
• Loneliness
• Love
• Lust
• Outrage
• Panic
• Passion
• Pity
• Pleasure
• Pride
• Rage
• Regret
• Rejection
• Remorse
• Resentment
• Sadness
• Saudade
• Schadenfreude
• Self-confidence
• Shame
• Shock
• Shyness
• Social connection
• Sorrow
• Suffering
• Surprise
• Trust
• Wonder
• Worry

That is why many have a love and hate relationship with the game. Strong emotions are good for games. Emotion is the key content. It should be behind every feature (if not feature is boring and is badly done)

The specific emotion a French player will experience when another strong nation (which terrorizes French from time to time) lose a port to NPC Is definitely on the list. 

Some will find this description accurate.

https://www.gamepressure.com/editorials/my-favorite-pain-and-suffering-simulator/zc228

[GrubbyZebra]

3 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

He is in dk. Some would proberbly say a weak nation. But it has nothing with a weak ore a strong nation. He and others have from the start argued for that crafting should be tied to the player, not the nation/clan.  To much power that they will abuse. 
Make a Dual system. A nation/clan can do as now. But Allow a port to be upgraded to 55 by basicly buying the points that are needed in admiralty.

Make it posible for a single player to upgrade his account, at 1/10 cost of what it cost a nation/clan to get the same points.

This would be a start. But personally I think crafting should be a specilaty. You can either make strong, faster. More crew, more agileand do on. Make maybe it so that you can chose maybe 2. Fast and Crew. Strenght and fast. And so on.

The problem with this is that if it cost less for the player to upgrade as a clan, then you will have 10 players that will have upgrades that no-one else can use, instead of a port with upgrades that potentially the entire nation can use. Such a system would be antithetical to the nation-oriented gameplay currently encouraged.

[Malcolm3]

7 hours ago, admin said:

It happens all the time in RL
Syria is now unusable by Nation X because of Nation Y proxy intervention. And vice versa Libya is not usable by Nation Y because of Nation X proxy (alt) intervention. the list of RL examples is endless from Latin america to Africa.

Problem is that IRL Nation X have plenty methods to do something with Nation Y intervention and using them depends only on resources available. In NA when alt clan capture your main crafting port there is almost nothing you can do with that. So @Liq is somehow valid

6 hours ago, admin said:

We are considering adding another investment card allowing clans to add points themselves. But of course this could create more imbalance than advantages.. but it seems a very good feature on paper.

Sounds interesting. But did you consider some of my ideas of Supply and Blockade system described here:

 

[GrubbyZebra]

21 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

It cost more. Unless you only think there is only 10 player in a nation. But then let is cost 25% ore the same. I don't care. 

It may cost more in aggregate, but to the individual player, it costs less, and on average, people tend to look out for themselves, so they will take the "cheaper" option to individually upgrade and be able to "corner" the market for ships or upgrades or whatever.

Quote

Lets take DK. Where I play in. We(Bocar) don't hold the crafting port. But we payed 80 % of the upgrade cost. We fight Sweden, the rest is scared of this. We been told we would be removed if we continoue. So we can continue and lose acces to port bonus.

For some reason somebody likes us, so we could put crafting alts in there clans. We attacked one of there playerd in OW. We where told we couldn’t. We would be kicked. We dob’t make OW deals, so Wupti we where gone from clan roster.

We made an attempt on Nassau. If we had a alt clan on Reds friendlist, you Think we would have stayed in it. We will fight, no matter what. But how many you think will?

The port bonus system have made the strong fight and allmost every one stay in habor, cowarding, hopping for nobody hurting them.

I do understand and like this gameplay. But mostly because I found a groupe of players that give a shit, and just want fun. But does it give more fighting, a more diverse RvR inviroment.

Take a port and invest in it, instead, if you are worried about being kicked from the other port holder's friends list. Or, firm up your alliance with the other clans in your nation through economic incentives (purchasing ships, books, upgrades, cannon, etc) or defense incentives (will defend their ports from attack, escort their traders, etc). The point is, the current system almost forces nations to work together if they want to succeed, instead of reinforcing the "clan" as the core unit of diplomacy. This is completely in line with the stated goals of the RvR game.

[Farrago]

1 hour ago, admin said:

As this is a developer forum we can share some secrets

There is whole list of emotions people can experience and A LOT .. REALLY A LOT of them can be experienced in Naval Action.

• Acceptance
• Affection
• Amusement
• Anger
• Angst
• Anguish
• Annoyance
• Anticipation
• Anxiety
• Apathy
• Arousal
• Awe
• Boredom
• Confidence
• Contempt
• Contentment
• Courage
• Cruelty
• Curiosity
• Depression
• Desire
• Despair
• Disappointment
• Disgust
• Distrust
• Ecstasy
• Embarrassment
• Empathy
• Enthusiasm
• Envy
• Euphoria
• Fear
• Frustration
• Gratification
• Gratitude
• Greed
• Grief
• Guilt
• Happiness
• Hatred
• Hope
• Horror
• Hostility
• Humiliation
• Interest
• Jealousy
• Joy
• Kindness
• Loneliness
• Love
• Lust
• Outrage
• Panic
• Passion
• Pity
• Pleasure
• Pride
• Rage
• Regret
• Rejection
• Remorse
• Resentment
• Sadness
• Saudade
• Schadenfreude
• Self-confidence
• Shame
• Shock
• Shyness
• Social connection
• Sorrow
• Suffering
• Surprise
• Trust
• Wonder
• Worry

That is why many have a love and hate relationship with the game. Strong emotions are good for games. Emotion is the key content. It should be behind every feature (if not feature is boring and is badly done)

The specific emotion a French player will experience when another strong nation (which terrorizes French from time to time) lose a port to NPC Is definitely on the list. 

Some will find this description accurate.

https://www.gamepressure.com/editorials/my-favorite-pain-and-suffering-simulator/zc228

I'm hoping the clans/nations who lost ports to AI Raiders this weekend will feel CONSOLATION by the tens (or even hundreds) of millions they have reaped from those ports over the last few months.

[erelkivtuadrater]

8 hours ago, admin said:

We are considering adding another investment card allowing clans to add points themselves. But of course this could create more imbalance than advantages.. but it seems a very good feature on paper.
Which nation lars plays these days? Is the proposal for clan to control the points comes from weak or strong nation?

suggest to have your port bonuses only specialized in one branch, so if you want port x to specialize in fast ships you have the sailing and rigging line, where you have more sub classes so you're not able to craft these frankenships that we have.

Also on-topic: LOKI rune also works for Raids?  

Edited January 28, 2020 by erelkivtuadrater

[Tiedemann]

On 1/26/2020 at 11:08 PM, Busterbloodvessel said:

Sounds very frustrating, especially when mods and tweaks are implemented without patch notes.

Is there a video of this raid? What ships were you defending with? Were the NPC LGV's faster than a speed built Renomee for example?

 

Buster 

Don had a 14,5+ kn Renommee and was not gaining, I was in a te/wo Renommme and even with the wind we had no chance to intercept all before they entered the circle. Next time I bring fir/fir.