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Definition of exploit

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

 

Is the stacking of hostilitymissions on the same place to hide missions that are ongoing intended by the game designers? @admin @Ink

 

I hereby accuse @Anolytic of using a game system (hostility missions) and it's bug of stacking them to hide the full missions willingly and knowing it is in fact a exploit. 

 

Quote by anolytic in the below thread:

Quote

That being said, the stacking of hostility missions is a bad mechanic. When we saw that Swedes had 25+ players in big ships outside San Juan, we sailed away from our first hostility mission and tried to offer the Danish Swedish a fight under their fort. Instead they sailed back into San Juan, hiding their fleet rather than engaging us, and we decided the only way to get a fight was if we come back tomorrow.

 

I would write this in the tribunal but it got closed.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, rediii said:

I hereby accuse @Anolytic of using a game system (hostility missions) and it's bug of stacking them to hide the full missions willingly and knowing it is in fact a exploit. 

No. I knew it was in fact not an exploit, per tribunal precedent.

Btw. You could have just fought us under the forts at San Juan, and regardless of the battle outcome, we would not have had time to flip the port. You were there, we were there, so we decided not to go for the port and go for the fight instead, but then you ran all the way into port.

Speaking of rules and their application:

Quote

19. Accusations of Exploits or Cheating

Accusing people or groups of cheating, or exploiting in the public forums or in game chat is not permitted with the following exceptions:

  • If you have video or other effective and conclusive proof, you may post that proof along with the accusation in Tribunal.
  • If you do not have video or other effective proof, but instead suspect there may be wrongdoing, you may use F11, or Private Message Ink and/or an active Moderator on the forums.  Please provide as much evidence as possible, and please F11 and note the bug number where applicable.  If you're messaging Ink or the Moderators, it helps to have bug numbers (they look like NAB-12345, but bug numbers are not required) so that your complaint can be properly investigated.

Those who violate this rule in game are to be reported via right clicking the person's name where they made the statement, and selecting Report.  In the forums, please click the "Report" link at the top of the post.  Violation of this rule can result in withdrawal of your in game chat and/or forum posting privileges.

P.P.S. Is it intended by developers to trade ports with yourself in empty port-battles by removing all Danish clans from friendlist when they have a port battle for their only crafting port

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55 minutes ago, rediii said:

 

I would write this in the tribunal but it got closed.

 

It was closed because all tribunals without definitetive proof are closed when the issue is fully understood. Tribunals without proof should be posted as a question. 

Now .. Let me call you out - 
Such posts are not acceptable for veterans like you

Quote

Anyway nothing will change. Dev's continue to not listen to people asking for a fix until enough shit stuff happened and discouraged people to keep playing.
 

Next time you want to post an outraged crap like this remember that you are not a 6 year old girl or not a crying baby. It would be acceptable for a crying baby but not for a grown up national leader. Man up!


We are working on the priorities and will continue to listen to our priority plan. If you want to influence it here are 2 things you can do
1) Request it in calm and persuasive manner
2) Be a member of the community (pretending to be a member or being a passive passer by is NOT being a member). Community members defend other community members. For example in that tribunal there were a couple of comments claiming devs are not mentally capable of fixing it - what did you say to them? Can you pinpoint me what did you respond to those comments?? Or you just ignored them like a passer by? Did you report them?

Always remember that crying babies are not really persuasive.  Outraged whining no longer works here, and threads where community does not act like a community (does not defend other members or even just report shitposters abusing other members of the community) will be ignored. 

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49 minutes ago, ShroudedRecluse said:

 

community members should NOT stick up for other community members if those community members are in general acting in a manner intentionally detrimental to the rest of the community by using exploits and in particular in this case accused of exploiting hostility mechanics in a manner that drive part of the players away from an already shrinking player base that might soon be in need of life support
 

Ah.. you call yourself a community member?
How many shit posts have you reported this week? If you were present in the topic on the exploit - how many reports did you make? Did you say something to protect other community members. 

You should start acting as a community member and not a passer by. Only then you can demand the same in return. When a shitposter calls my programmer mentally incapable after spending thousands of hours in this technically wonderful game about age of sail, you say nothing. If you say nothing - you are not a community member.  You are just a giggling kid in school who watches a fight.  You want a community? Participate. 

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_exploit

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

 

Is the stacking of hostilitymissions on the same place to hide missions that are ongoing intended by the game designers? @admin @Ink

 

Is the removal of every clan from the friends list after a clan switches nation so they get the port for free intended by the game designers?

Ironic then, when HAVOC uses an existing mechanic to get a port for free is not an exploit, but when REDS uses an existing mechanic to flip the same port then it is an exploit.

By your own definition, what you did to take San Juan should be considered an exploit. In both cases however, there is a precedent set in which neither what you did or what REDS did today is considered exploiting. Hypocrite much?

You wanted RVR, that's the reason you switched to Sweden, yet the first thing you do is set a port battle and then make sure no one can join it. The thing is, you would of taken the port battle in a straight up fight so why do you take the cheap way out? This could of been handled diplomatically so many ways, and at least with Sweden you have 2 crafting ports to fall back on if you lose San Juan. The Danes weren't as lucky. Well you reap what you sow.

I would think that you spent enough time with Sveno, who was a great diplomat and pleasure to work with that you would of learned some things. I guess not.

42 minutes ago, ShroudedRecluse said:

The rest abusive content edited out by mods.

community members should NOT stick up for other community members if those community members are in general acting in a manner intentionally detrimental to the rest of the community by using exploits and in particular in this case accused of exploiting hostility mechanics in a manner that drive part of the players away from an already shrinking player base that might soon be in need of life support
 

Yes, community members should stick up for each other.

So when are you going to announce you plan on giving Denmark one of Sweden's 3 crafting ports?

Or is ok for HAVOC to take Denmark's only crafting port, and using Redii's definition, through an exploit?

 

Edited by Redman29
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Oof, this thread might get a little rocky.

I will only say this; If you could do something, that does not mean you should do it.

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13 minutes ago, ShroudedRecluse said:

yes, i call myself a community member

what does the number of shit posts i reported this week have anything to do at all with me being a community member? or the number of reports

as for people bashing on the devs, that is YOUR responsibility to address, not mine

ty

It IS YOUR responsibility to take action if you feel that you can demand something from me i will demand something from you.
If you witness people attacking other community members without any ground and foundation you should act otherwise you are just a passer by

We protect you. We ban people who attack your sisters in chat, who troll, and review requests to close exploits, and close them one by one. Hundreds of exploits were closed over last 25 months.So Reddii statement is just bullshit that we do not care. But if he wants us to take action faster he should act like a community member. 

 you did not act .. Neither you or @rediii even said anything to the asshole to called my programmer mentally incapable to fix this bug. This is not how community members act..

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44 minutes ago, ShroudedRecluse said:

actually if you kept up with what happened there, HAVOC appraised the devs before hand of the situation and consulted with them as to how to go about it

they were moving nation because as far as denmark goes they weren't engaging in any RvR+

HAVOC wasn't going to keep an alt in DANISH nation so the port would have flipped to neutral on a day chosen by HAVOC, who would have immediately raised hostility with knowing ahead of time when it was going to happen

(again far from ideal mechanics)

as for community members sticking up for each other - pot calling kettle black here mate - practice it in game first yourselves before calling others out for it

sad to see the largest faction on the server screw over the smaller factions in this manner through exploits

sadder yet it is to see my comments get modded, which took the exact same language used by admin in his response

double standards all around

Hmm, well that's not entirely how that port was flipped considering it was still Danish when that happened but oh well. Why remove everyone from friends list then?

As for practicing it. What's REDS did today is a bad mechanic, and I dirtied my hands. 

I admit that I don't hold the moral high ground, but I can't stand the hypocrisy coming from the Swedes, because you lost that when you took Denmark's only crafting port. Neither one of us can say we have acted with the best intentions. I mean, you can thank OCEAN for contributing to developing Arecibo, and making up a good portion of HAVOC's fleet when they were Denmark but oh well, screw them too right?

We're killing the game but you killed Denmark. And the sad thing is that this could of been handled so much better diplomatically. HAVOC dropped the ball and chose the worst way to handle this by running rough shot over the Danes and antagonizing the most people possible. 

As for double standards. I call North Viking and others out all the time on some of the stuff they comes up with. I call out hypocrisy when I see it. 

Edited by Redman29
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besides all the hurf blurf.

the fact of the matter is that we should absolutely NOT be able to "hide" a battle under another battle.

fine, don't call it an exploit, but lets call it a huge problem.

two ways I think this can be "fixed."

1. IF a battle stacks on top of each other, each "sword" in the OW should also stack on top of each other so everyone CLEARLY knows how many battles are there and so they can CLEARLY choose which battle they want to join.

OR

2. if a battle starts at a point, another battle can NEVER also be on the exact same point. If a battle for whatever reason happens to be close by, the swords never "stack" and will spawn in a different point close by so as any and every player can CLEARLY see the battle and get into the one they want to join.

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30 minutes ago, ShroudedRecluse said:

actually if you kept up with what happened there, HAVOC appraised the devs before hand of the situation and consulted with them as to how to go about it
So as you say they didn’t exploite any mechanic ore rule. Neither did the Russians. The mechanic of stacking missions have been tribunaled before, and was not an exploite. The Russians just followed the ruling set by admin I guess.
they were moving nation because as far as denmark goes they weren't engaging in any RvR+

Nobody says anything is wrong in changing nation, ppl just point out Havoc to is using mechanic to Dodge a fight, witch they say Russia should not do. Some think it might be a bit dobbelstandard.

HAVOC wasn't going to keep an alt in DANISH nation so the port would have flipped to neutral on a day chosen by HAVOC, who would have immediately raised hostility with knowing ahead of time when it was going to happen

No alt in dk. Are you sure abouth that? Setting it to neutral and have had a real fight, would imo have let them Sound better when they complaint abouth Russia use mechanic to Dodge a fight.

(again far from ideal mechanics)

as for community members sticking up for each other - pot calling kettle black here mate - practice it in game first yourselves before calling others out for it

sad to see the largest faction on the server screw over the smaller factions in this manner through exploits

More sad then see a strong clan screw ppl that have helped invest in the port, and fought along side in portbattles, trough use of a mechanic to Dodge a fight?

sadder yet it is to see my comments get modded, which took the exact same language used by admin in his response

double standards all around

We all have double standards. You defend Havoc’s actions, but attack Russia for the same. Using the game mechanic to get a Pb. Neither is an exploite.both have been accepted by devs as legal. 
 

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3 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

besides all the hurf blurf.

the fact of the matter is that we should absolutely NOT be able to "hide" a battle under another battle.

fine, don't call it an exploit, but lets call it a huge problem.

two ways I think this can be "fixed."

1. IF a battle stacks on top of each other, each "sword" in the OW should also stack on top of each other so everyone CLEARLY knows how many battles are there and so they can CLEARLY choose which battle they want to join.

OR

2. if a battle starts at a point, another battle can NEVER also be on the exact same point. If a battle for whatever reason happens to be close by, the swords never "stack" and will spawn in a different point close by so as any and every player can CLEARLY see the battle and get into the one they want to join.

But when doing that, should should we not also fix the free hand over of ports. What nation would say, oh we have a squadron sailing under a new flag, Well lets us not defend any port that nation wants.

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41 minutes ago, admin said:

It IS YOUR responsibility to take action if you fell that you can demand something from me i will demand something from you.
If you witness people attacking other community members without any ground and foundation you should act otherwise you are just a passer by

We protect you. We ban people who attack your sisters in chat, who troll, and review requests to close exploits. But you did not .. Neither you or @rediii even say anything to the asshole to called my programmer mentally incapable to fix this bug. This is not how community members behave.
 

ah, professionalism as always my dear @admin.  I do find it amusing how you revere members of this forum while they agree with your decisions and don't criticize development choices....but the moment they do....as we just witnessed with @rediii here, he's a child and not really a member of this community.  Disregard the fact that players like @rediii have streamed countless battles for "the community" and made countless suggestion posts to help improve the game.  I don't even like the guy or even agree with his current exploit whining....but damn.  

It's a little sad how most of the vets on this forum slowly gave up or got banned over time for disagreeing with various game design issues.  There used to be healthy debate and strong suggestions coming daily on these boards.  Along with the usual salt.  Not so much anymore.  You alienate yet another vet in this thread.  Congrats.

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Pretty much all I am seeing here is embarrassing.

Grown men acting like this is real life and resorting to screwing up a fantastic game because they don't know how to act responsible.

Use to be at one time words like honor and respect use to be used here now its just bitter people screwing up a good game because they are asshats.

People I use to play with acting like ignorant pricks when once they were excited players having FUN. Now your just trying to destroy this game you idiots.

Take a minute and actually reflect on what you have become and are resorting to here.

Use to be we came here to enjoy and relax and play with others. This is now just something ugly. SHAME ON YOU ! You know better and are better than this.

You let total asshats wreck your game and find excuses why they should continue ..Grow up.

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11 minutes ago, Redman29 said:

We're killing the game but you killed Denmark. And the sad thing is that this could of been handled so much better diplomatically. HAVOC dropped the ball and chose the worst way to handle this by running rough shot over the Danes and antagonizing the most people possible. 

Danes are not dead. Still a small group playing. I don’t agree on what they have desided to do as a nation, but I respect it. They do theres and I just don’t play with them. Minding my own buisness.

Yes Havoc leaving made some ppl hot, on both sides. But it is was it was. No doubt most danes left in the nation think abouth whats next to come. I surgested we helped the Russian to flip SJ the first time. But they where scared of what Sweden would do, same as some in the nation have convinsed the rest that Russia is the enemy of dk and not Sweden.
Ppl should not worry so much abouth dk. This is a war game, and it seams we now might actually getting a little god war going. Thats just good for the game.

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17 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

 

It's a little sad how most of the vets on this forum slowly gave up or got banned over time for disagreeing with various game design issues.  There used to be healthy debate and strong suggestions coming daily on these boards.  Along with the usual salt.  Not so much anymore.  You alienate yet another vet in this thread.  Congrats.

Nobody was ever banned for disagreeing with various design issues. All who were banned were banned because they broke the rules. We do not tolerate fake pixel based outrage and breaking the rules. But we give everyone second chances to an extent which your presence here kind of proves. Your post completely disagrees with what we ask for, and yet is there and you are getting responded to.
 
+ We do not consider calling out alienation. Reddii is a vet and if he ignores his national member shitting on my programmer he will be held responsible for inaction. He holds us responsible for how this feature works. We demand the same in return and hold him responsible how the conversation on this feature goes. Its a community and he is not a passive onlooker. 

Every member of this community is responsible for the state of this community. People should report abuse and hold other members to the standard the want everyone to adhere to. 

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40 minutes ago, admin said:

called my programmer mentally incapable to fix this bug

Just reading this and remembered in another topic that you said there is only 1 programmer working on the game. Not taking shots but who is it? Will they interact with us aswell? Just so we know who we should direct our queries to when we have them. Is Ink the only one working on the game, is it another person? 

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15 minutes ago, admin said:

Nobody was ever banned for disagreeing with various design issues. Almost all were banned for shitposting of sorts. We give everyone second chances to an extent which your presense here kind of proves. 

+ We do not consider calling out alienation. Reddii is a vet and if he ignores his national member shitting on my programmer he will be held responsible for inaction. He holds us responsible. We demand the same in return. Its a community and he is not a passive onlooker. 

Props for bringing my post back.  

Real talk here.  Why do you feel it's our job to police these boards?  Especially being held responsible for inaction.  You have made it abundantly clear that the game and the boards are full steam ahead regardless of our input.  By this same metric should the community hold you accountable for many tribunals that go unanswered?  This is the community trying to police your game is it not?

Also real talk.  Why is there only 1 programmer working on this game?  Surely the amount of DLC money collected can and should have supported more 6 months out of release?

Edited by Mouth of Sauron
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All communication goes through this forum. 
The development plans are fixed and there is very slim potential for movement. Currently we are focused on limited agression on the OW and new player experience mission, and new ships

  • Critical issues will of course force us to reshuffle the tasks, IF they are really critical issues that are  blocking or limiting gameplay for our customers and community members. 
  • For example - if all ships suddenly start sailing upside down - this would be considered a critical blocking bug and all work would be stopped to fix it. 


If some active and valuable community members want us to escalate certain feature higher - they should make sure people discuss it nicely in their topics. The creators of topics - like  @rediii 's request to fix mission sword spawn on each other can and should take the role of the community police - because when devs reach that topic they might not see anything except trash and abuse. Moving on to other issues. 

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2 hours ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

.... 

It's a little sad how most of the vets on this forum slowly gave up or got banned over time for disagreeing with various game design issues.  ...

Its not disagreeing per se. Its the way how people disagree. Mostly in a passive aggressive way or just in pure aggressive manner.

Being part of the community for a long time doesn't give anybody the right to attack people. But for some they think its a licence to behave like dicks and get away with that.

 

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5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Its not disagreeing per se. Its the way how people disagree. Mostly in a passive aggressive way or just in pure aggressive manner.

Being part of the community for a long time doesn't give anybody the right to attack people. But for some they think its a licence to behave like dicks and get away with that.

 

Well my experience is most that I know have been banned, just have replyed in the same tone, as they have been spoken to.

To me is seams if you are on the right side, you more ore less can say what you want. 
Calling somebody a 6 year old Girl and a cry baby is ok for some ppl, but others for sure would get a ban for doing it.

I do think there is a double standard in what somebody can do and others can’t.

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18 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

...

I do think there is a double standard in what somebody can do and others can’t.

What seems to be forgotten is that what goes around comes around. And here is where you are right. Better would be to ban hammer mark the reason why for everyone so they cant come up with their Reddit lies and no more questions. Like it was announced i believe. Then wait for apologies (everyone should get a 2nd chance) and reintegrate or perma ban.

Edited by z4ys

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24 minutes ago, z4ys said:

What seems to be forgotten is that what goes around comes around. 

But dosen’t that count for both side of an argument, but to me it seams only one side get the ban hammer.

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56 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:


Calling somebody a 6 year old Girl and a cry baby is ok for some ppl, but others for sure would get a ban for doing it.

 

Dont twist my words. I did not call somebody a 6 year old Girl.
I called out @rediiifor his statement which was inappropriate for a vet who actually pushed a lot of changes through. I reminded him that he is not a baby and not a girl to make up things.  He said we do not care even though he know we implemented a lot of proposals coming from him and his friends + fixed a lot of exploits coming from him or his friends (for example one of the exploits found by Liq was fixed in 2 hours and servers were even stopped). In addition to that if he demands things the way he does - he should not suddenly turn into silent bystander when other community members are abused. He demands things - we demand certain things as well. Its a community and community is always a two way street.

We will continue calling out people who say they are interested in this community and the game, if we do not like how they act. Just like they call us out when they do not like how we do things in game and how fast we fix them.

Next time you see someone abuses other community members - better report them as we don't need members who cannot grasp basic rules of respect and such. And if you see someone posting shit on one programmer we have, maybe lift your ass or fingers and say something to call toxic people out and report them as if this programmer leaves because accidentally stumbles on the post about him you might get NO features in 6 months as replacing a good quality programmer can take that long.

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