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Thread closed. Discussion moved to: Update 26/11/2019:  

I think being able to target secondary guns on a second target is very important.

Hello all, Just wanted to give you a small update on our current progress of work. We have added many more extra improvements than those already announced. The update is planned to finish next we

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11 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I think being able to target secondary guns on a second target is very important.

As well as torpedoes. A cruiser with 8in guns, 5in secondaries, and a couple 21in tubes should be able to sail around with its torps setting up a solution on an enemy battleship, its 5in guns aiming for those torpedo boats, and the main guns focusing on an enemy cruiser simultaneously. Probably with automaneuvering based on the main guns for anything that isn’t a destroyer or torpedo boat. 

 

Perhaps more importantly, hard points should honestly be removed from ship designer entirely except for superstructure gun mounts (like the various points on the modern bb forward) and casemate mounts. 

 

Additionally, the accuracy penalty for having multiple large, similar caliber guns should probably be stiffened to further disincentivize strange gun combinations. 

 

Also, any news on ship pathfinding AI?

Edited by AnonymousPepper
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I'd love for the UI to make it clearer what the your gun arcs are in battle (also for torpedo's). Also, useful to see on other ships.

I'd also second the separate targeting for different weapons suggestion. Also different ammo types for different weapons - I often want my mains firing AP, but my secondaries firing HE. Being able to point you guns/torpedo's in a desired direction, ready for firing would also be excellent.

I'd also like to see the handling of automatic avoidance steering either vastly improved, or just remove altogether. Right now, I find when ships get close the auto-avoidance steering usually makes things worse.

But overall sounds like a solid update - looking forward to it!

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Add modified medium barbette that is a little bit higher than the standard medium barbette.

Like here:

j44XUeh.png

Front barbette with 155mm gun is a little bit higher than the rear one, of course the turret nr 1 is lower than superstructure because of the deck that starts to go lower from secondary turret nr 1 to main turret nr 1.

Also you could add more spaces for barbettes.
And why we do not have access in the late missions to medium barbette? :D (example: Destroy Full Fleet, Modern Battleship)

 

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It would be nice if we could setup our own custom battle. That would be good for practice and trying different configurations as well. Just an idea.

Also, in terms of the visual work, are you considering removing what appears as a support below the lifeboats when a ship is sunk?

Edited by comrade_admiral
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thank you for all your work and keeping us updated... I do agree though it is important to beable to separate targeting with mains and secondaires and torpedo's..... I hope this is in the works for future updates.... there should be no reason when a target is locked that you waste secondary ammo on a target you cannot penatrate and concentrate fire on smaller ships and not have to use your 16 inch guns on a DD for no reason 

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Awesome changes! Agree with all who want to be able to target secondary guns and torpedoes, though. Or at least change their priorities. Five inch guns should have TBs, DDs and LCs as their top priority, wolf in the hen-house, mortal danger, must-kill priority! Ignore that battleship, there¨s a DD nearby! Keep up the good work!

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Besides independent secondary targeting, I'd also like ability for secondary ammo choice to not be tied to primary gun's ammo choice. 

Formation AI also need serious rework at the moment, while I don't know if its appropriate to ask it to be fit into this patch given the amount of work that seems to be already on the table, it should be tackled sooner than later.

My other pressing concerns, namely incredibly durable ship near death, underpowered secondary, and poor torpedo warfare seems to be worked on in that patch, so I look forward to see how things turn out.

Lastly, I personally think it will be best to either release campaign in limited scope, or some kind of custom battle that places everything on a more even tech level rather than the current bouns we get from Academy. It will help us better gauge the balancing change if ships can actually engage each other at comparatively tech levels. 

For example, having very modern guns in the attacking armed convoy mission may skew our perception about effectiveness of those weapons, likewise being able to put very heavy guns on pre-dread in "power of dreadnoughts" may also give a false impression. 

This patch note is looking good so far, keep up the good work!

Edited by Mycophobia
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I assume it's covered under

9 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Ship steering/acceleration slight rebalance for more realistic maneuvering. This balance addressed additionally the over-effectiveness in evading torpedoes and the unnaturally very tight turning circles of small ships, which causes also issues in formation and evasion logic.

but having larger ships (IE BB, CA, etc) not having to make a u-turn to allow a destroyer pass by would be nice. I have had far too many formations be ruined by a screen that got a little too close by. Basically just give some sort of priority for what ships should make an effort to get out of the way first.

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Lots in this update that sounds great, so won't say more about general things other than very happy to see them. As an aside, I don't believe I've ever had a crash, although the game does cause my 6GB GTX 1060 to get pretty hot even with my manual fan profile running.

As others have mentioned their ideas, thought I'd put mine in even though some are repeats of those above.

Again, however, thanks for the news and ongoing work to make improvements. All very promising.

Cheers

1. Torpedo Warning.

Great to see you're adding it, as I was one who asked about it. Once the torpedoes have been "indicated by a visual warning for a short period of time", however, then what? Do they revert to not being particularly visible? I do not think it's a good idea for a warning to be given but then nothing after that.

Could I suggest an icon somewhere (a red torpedo icon bottom left of screen or wherever) that remains there for so long as there are torpedoes heading in directions that make them potentially threats to your ships, and that clicking ON that icon will jump the screen to the torpedoes?

I can understand not wanting to clutter the screen with a constant, obvious flashing message, yet this would still stand out once we know about it and allow us to check on them IF they aren't going to be any other means used to make them more visible than usual.

I think this would be an elegant solution to the real world fact that no ship is going to 'forget/lose track of' any torpedoes known to be heading their way once alerted, although obviously that's just one possible way of doing it.

2. Separate Targets and Shells for Different Batteries

Need to be able to designate a target at least for main v secondary/casemate guns. Ideally could also give separate shell orders by battery, too. In other words, create an ability to select all/primary/secondary and give target and ammo selection orders for whatever is selected. Obviously selections made under 'all' would need to override any separate orders standing at the time. If separate shell selection is too much, separate targeting is the "must have", please.

The fact you're taking steps to make secondary/casemate guns more effective means it's even more important to have them shooting at relevant targets.

Absolutely agree with everyone else. If I have secondary/casemate guns that can be far better used against a closer, small target, it's rather annoying having to hope the AI will switch those guns to them. As it stands, to do that we have to direct ALL guns at a target.

As soon as we select a target manually, however, that tends to mean everything fires at that target until either it sinks or the AI 'decides' to reallocate guns, and there are times it does that in ways that are also less than ideal.

The AI isn't too bad with ammo choice, unless it's the main guns firing at something heavily angled, although perhaps the details in the next topic might alter that a bit. Either way, being able to order different shells for different batteries would be nice, but nowhere near as important as separate targeting.

3. Penetration and Damage Model Changes etc

Great to see some alterations here, and that the tooltip will be more 'real time specific' in providing info.

Would like a clear explanation of the penetration mechanics of AP and HE, plus how the armour model works.

I think one of the issues we have is we're somewhat guessing at what ought to work and how. I sometimes see damage applied to my own ship and see the event in the log and it leaves me scratching my head as to how that can happen when, by looking at the gun that hit me and the range, it appears such a penetration (or even partial) ought not be possible.

If a gun has a deck pen of 1" at the range and my deck is 3" of +80% Krupp, that ought to be 1" pen v (3 x 1.8=) 5.4" effective armour, correct? How does that do damage? Does mid-deck represent between main deck and belt? What about upper superstructure, or is that just counted as "tower" (main and secondary) and do they get any armour at all? If so, what armour area applies? How does HE work v AP? Is it like other games I might mention where HE applies a basic value against the equivalent armour counted as flat, and can do damage even when it doesn't pen/partial pen? I've seen HE generate a small value and an armour symbol pop up, which suggests a bounce, but it does damage even when an AP with same symbol doesn't? So many questions, lol.

I am one who is of the opinion keeping details of important mechanics from players is not a good game design philosophy. Better in my mind for a player to have all the info necessary to understand how things ought to turn out, especially while we're supposedly helping to test. The more we know about how things ought to be, the more we can see how things are compare with expectations and alert you to differences. It also would help greatly in understanding the impact of where and how much armour we choose in our designs, as right now it's not always clear.

 

Edited by Steeltrap
minor additions/amendments
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looking very good, can't wait to try it.

i second most people here that a skirmish or custom battle mode or something like that, that lets us choose tech levels as well, not just design the ships, and throw in any fleet composition, and also possibly design the enemy ships too, whould be very helpful to test stuff out, and keep us interested a while longer than just replaying the same missions!

it's probably too much work for next update i know that. but if campaign doesnt come soon, then this at least should come as soon as possible, whenever it's ready.

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Ok... one major suggestion here, currently when the game says "smoke spotted to x" it shows nothing on the horizon in that direction please add this as a visual cue its something that captains IRL would have used extensively, thanks and have a good day.

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Omg, omg, omg. i can't wait and theres MORE changes and additions to come? Thats insane.

Didn't even notice some of the issues above too be honest (am bad alpha tester lol) but nice they are being fixed.

And YES finally we get to name our own ships!

7 minutes ago, Absolute0CA said:

Ok... one major suggestion here, currently when the game says "smoke spotted to x" it shows nothing on the horizon in that direction please add this as a visual cue its something that captains IRL would have used extensively, thanks and have a good day.

Also to further expand on yer point you can even have little silloutes slowly pop-up as they cross over the horizon line and get bigger, so like pre-rendering or something, that should give an even better idea of what to expect and also where the enemy is. Also should help with rendering as well since your pc doesn't need to render the full ship from nothing but from a pre-rendered image or model.

Im expecting in alpha 4 to see custom battles, maybe that Admirals Academy for historical battles i keep banging on about and also i would like to see ships have signal flags which provide some bonuses (only small) to help with formations and also a few other things.

Another thing i would like to see eventually probs in alpha 4 or alpha 5 (which im gonna predict is when the campaign will drop in full) is captains and maybe voiceovers as well, so that way you can hear crew members and the captain speaking (such as fire, taking fire, aim! we are hit! enemy dreadnought on the horizon!) that sort of thing but not spammy doe.

My final suggestion would be to have different Shell types, ranging from Semi-Armour pierecing, High Velocity Armour Piercing, APBC, APCBC, APHE, Palliser Projectiles, Sankaidan, Splash colour shells, HE-I, HE-T, Special common, Shellite as well plus TNA for different charges.

Oh and you could also have different fuzes like nose fuzes, delay fuzes, base fuzes, Proximity fuzes, Time fuzes.

Plus illumination rounds and smokes rounds like ILLUM and ILLUM-MT and for powders maybe prismatic and Nitroguanidine.

Cheers.

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48 minutes ago, Cptbarney said:

Omg, omg, omg. i can't wait and theres MORE changes and additions to come? Thats insane.

Didn't even notice some of the issues above too be honest (am bad alpha tester lol) but nice they are being fixed.

And YES finally we get to name our own ships!

Also to further expand on yer point you can even have little silloutes slowly pop-up as they cross over the horizon line and get bigger, so like pre-rendering or something, that should give an even better idea of what to expect and also where the enemy is. Also should help with rendering as well since your pc doesn't need to render the full ship from nothing but from a pre-rendered image or model.

Im expecting in alpha 4 to see custom battles, maybe that Admirals Academy for historical battles i keep banging on about and also i would like to see ships have signal flags which provide some bonuses (only small) to help with formations and also a few other things.

Another thing i would like to see eventually probs in alpha 4 or alpha 5 (which im gonna predict is when the campaign will drop in full) is captains and maybe voiceovers as well, so that way you can hear crew members and the captain speaking (such as fire, taking fire, aim! we are hit! enemy dreadnought on the horizon!) that sort of thing but not spammy doe.

My final suggestion would be to have different Shell types, ranging from Semi-Armour pierecing, High Velocity Armour Piercing, APBC, APCBC, APHE, Palliser Projectiles, Sankaidan, Splash colour shells, HE-I, HE-T, Special common, Shellite as well plus TNA for different charges.

Oh and you could also have different fuzes like nose fuzes, delay fuzes, base fuzes, Proximity fuzes, Time fuzes.

Plus illumination rounds and smokes rounds like ILLUM and ILLUM-MT and for powders maybe prismatic and Nitroguanidine.

Cheers.

Yeesh breath between your buckets of ideas... :P Seconded... :D 

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Looking at this I think the citadel mechanic along with the barbette mechanic need to go back to the drawing board. It is a manifestation of the same redundancy of mechanics that the shipyard placement scheme suffers: that there are two game functions trying to solve the same problem at the same time and they're getting in each other's way. I think that the citadel armor mechanic should define the how many regions we have to apportion armor to and where in the vessel those regions are. For example the current scheme of deck, belt, their extended variants, turret, and conning tower armor zones is a great start for the the second armor scheme. The first one should at most be hull, deck, turret, and superstructure zones. As the player progresses to new citadel techs like turtle-back and all-or-nothing schemes more regions for armor placement should become available with either an armor viewer like certain MMO naval games or some sort of schematic viewer styled after the historical schematics that lets us see where the armor is relative to our ship's internal components along with some loading screen tips explaining that an all or nothing ship can still be sunk by flooding in the unarmored zones and other such important advice.

For barbettes just make them an armor zone. That and/or maybe rename it to ammo storage scheme or something to define this setting as having to do with the internal structure of the barbette including blast doors, wet ammo storage, and so on.

Edited by phsylent
improved explaination
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