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Seasonal Update: Treacherous Waters - Preliminary information

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1 minute ago, admin said:

You should stop thinking about delivery missions as a main way to make money. They were always to give a head start and that's it.
Nerf was long overdue. 

Real trading is buying trading goods and new wind gusts make them more lucrative. Delivery missions ARE not to make money for the lvl 3 shipyard. PVE is. Find a hunting spot and just rob combat and trading ships. Its much easier to find targets now. And travel is finally a bit more exciting. 

Okey... lets see for couple of weeks and get general mood from the player base.
I still have my concerns though

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Just now, admin said:

Real trading is buying trading goods and new wind gusts make them more lucrative. Delivery missions ARE not to make money for the lvl 3 shipyard. PVE is. Find a hunting spot and just rob combat and trading ships. Its much easier to find targets now. And travel is finally a bit more exciting. 

Are you referring to 5 cargos at 100 tonnes a piece, worth 3,000 reals each, that I capped after a 10 minute battle and 20 minutes of sailing?

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Just now, DreadPirateBob said:

Are you referring to 5 cargos at 100 tonnes a piece, worth 3,000 reals each, that I capped after a 10 minute battle and 20 minutes of sailing?

I guess so

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3 minutes ago, DreadPirateBob said:

Are you referring to 5 cargos at 100 tonnes a piece, worth 3,000 reals each, that I capped after a 10 minute battle and 20 minutes of sailing?

no.
buying goods in some regional capitals and hauling them to other regional capitals. like it was before delivery quests
Top 1-2 hours (old time) haul makes 500k -600k per trip
NPC traders are only for doubloons (some carry expensive goods), but in general npc traders are not a good target for a high roller, just like one hand machines for a high stake card player.

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7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

So... this patch hasn't changed anything about that. Let's get this straight, you're arguing that numbers in a sandbox MMO shouldn't matter? We should be propping up small nations and players that can't fend for themselves because they refuse to play the game, game the meta, and work angles to be competitive?

1. I play for GB.

2. Numbers should matter, but this isn't like EVE.  You can't just pack your station up and move to a new alliance.

3. We SHOULD be propping up smaller nations because this game is losing players fast enough as it is.  Players = content.

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Look, it's not that I'm not sympathetic but if you want to play an impossible nation then you're putting yourself at risk. If you commit to playing in a small nation or a small clan with few friends then you simply are going to limit yourself to competing in a certain subset of the game.  You shouldn't expect as a one-man clan to have access to first rates as easily as a clan with 70 active players who are simply more efficient at working the game systems.

I'm not playing an impossible nation, but the people who are already here shouldn't be punished further.

Edited by DreadPirateBob
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4 minutes ago, admin said:

buying goods in some regional capitals and hauling them to other regional capitals. like it was before delivery quests

Which (kind of) works for GB, RU and VP.

Again, I'm pointing out that this patch is a HUGE relative nerf to the small nations, and a small one for the big nations.

Edited by DreadPirateBob
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7 minutes ago, admin said:

no.
buying goods in some regional capitals and hauling them to other regional capitals. like it was before delivery quests
Top 1-2 hours (old time) haul makes 500k -600k per trip
NPC traders are only for doubloons (some carry expensive goods), but in general npc traders are not a good target for a high roller, just like one hand machines for a high stake card player.

With the exception that now it will be player spent money to buy goods (as they are not simple delivery missions), which means unavoidably he is gonna loose some and this number will be reduced.

I guess what I'm trying to communicate here is that even before the patch people complained about how much time they had to sink using 1 account in order to be competitive. Lots of players who lost their investments in ports that were captured just cant be asked to play again and grind all over.
This patch did not make it any easier. Only harder and THAT is my concern - player retention.

But as I said. Lets get the feedback for couple of weeks and have better view of the situation.

Edited by koltes
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4 minutes ago, koltes said:

With the exception that now it will be player spent money to buy goods (as they are not simple delivery missions), which means unavoidably he is gonna loose some and this number will be reduced.

Occasional loss of assets is an inevitable state of things on the War server. 
For those who cannot accept any loss whatsoever there is Peace server. 

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Just now, admin said:

Peace server?

Doesn't answer his point that it's not a clear gain of 500-600k when you factor in losses.  Which will be very frequent for any small nation trader and less frequent (but still a factor) for larger nation traders.

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14 minutes ago, admin said:

Real trading is buying trading goods and new wind gusts make them more lucrative.

This does not work as the hunters can also get the wind gusts and catch you easier. I had a Wasa going faster than my Trader Lynx because he had a better wind gust than I had. Previously there was no chance of being caught in my Trader Lynx by a Wasa and now there is. All he needs is a good tag and prepared and I am demasted before I get out from the loading screen.

The wind gusts do help to make the journey faster but also put you at more risk and the risk vs reward trade off makes it not worth doing normal trade runs.

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3 minutes ago, DreadPirateBob said:

Doesn't answer his point that it's not a clear gain of 500-600k when you factor in losses.  Which will be very frequent for any small nation trader and less frequent (but still a factor) for larger nation traders.

Of course it is not clear. It depends on your loss ratio over a number of trips 
But remember you always lose goods at cost.. and distant ports pay a lot more. allowing you to break even - even if you lose 4 out of 5 ships. (some distant ports can pay 5-6x on your purchase price)

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I play pve for a reason, I don't have a ton of time. If I lose my shipyard and warehouse, I'm out permanently. Used to live sailing a fleet of Indiamen full of tobacco down to Cuba, I could afk in between chores. Usually some battles of I had time on weekend. Make it more fun guys please not this. Kinda scared to play now oh boy

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2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This does not work as the hunters can also get the wind gusts and catch you easier. I had a Wasa going faster than my Trader Lynx because he had a better wind gust than I had. Previously there was no chance of being caught in my Trader Lynx by a Wasa and now there is. All he needs is a good tag and prepared and I am demasted before I get out from the loading screen.

I was going 9 knots with a max gust (boost) at 15 degrees to wind in HMS Leopard just this morning. 
Are you sure trader lynx is slower than 9 knots at 15 degrees (even unfitted). 

 

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PB hostility noob question: Do acquired hostility percent survive maintenance so I can continue tomorrow or have to start all over again? From zero?

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2 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

PB hostility noob question: Do acquired hostility percent survive maintenance so I can continue tomorrow or have to start all over again? From zero?

resets at 0 to stop prepping for next day. 
 

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Just now, admin said:

Of course it is not clear. It depends on your loss ratio over a number of trips 
But remember you always lose goods at cost.. and distant ports pay a lot more. allowing you to break even - even if you lose 4 out of 5 ships. (some distant ports can pay 5-6x on your purchase price)

Once again: Smaller nations, which are already struggling, are getting hit disproportionately hard in this patch.

Please stop playing on an RU account, make a French, Swedish, or Prussian one.  Then go out and sail and test your income.  THEN go back to your RU main and compare the results.

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9 minutes ago, admin said:

I was going 9 knots with a max gust (boost) at 15 degrees to wind in HMS Leopard just this morning. 
Are you sure trader lynx is slower than 9 knots at 15 degrees (even unfitted). 

 

But this is not the point. The point is, using your example, that a Leopard with a max gust boost can go faster than a T.Lynx without it at the T.Lynxes best point of sail, while before this was impossible. So trading is now even more risky. Previousy in my gold speed modded T. Lynx I only had to worry about Princes or Privateers catching me, while now I have to worry about much larger ships catching me because they have found a wind gust before me.

If the position of the wind gusts remains constant then the hunters will camp the gusts ready to activate it when they see a trader approaching but before a trader can get to the gust.

For example, today there was two gusts outside Tumbado on east and one west of the port. All you need to do is have a spotter on the dock and a hunter on one of the gusts and when a trader leaves the hunter is told to activate and swoop in to catch the trader well before they reach the gust.

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2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

For example, today there was two gusts outside Tumbado on east and one west of the port. All you need to do is have a spotter on the dock and a hunter on one of the gusts and when a trader leaves the hunter is told to activate and swoop in to catch the trader well before they reach the gust.

Hey! Damn it! Stop giving away pirate pactics! We already made this happen today few times :D

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5 hours ago, Dread Pirate West said:

4k reals for a T-brig
Is that... Buying all your resources from the market? Or Producing each one for your own use?
Are you accounting for the labor hours used with that run?

What about the cost of a normal battle, two players enter one player leaves, say solo Patrol? Two snows, each one about 5k to build, between 4k and 30k for guns (depending on your preferred loadout) and 3 mods. Each mod was about 20k, some cheaper, some more expensive. A loadout of repairs was about 20/10/40, each about 200 reals per

On the mid end, thats about 96k of reals worth for a snow fight.

Grab a trinc, do the math, what is the replacement cost for that trincomalee?

Your high end mission should cover the cost of getting into a fighting ship, not a percentage of one. We want more combat, not less. If the issue is doubloons being too lucrative for missions, directly convert them into reals for use rather than mixing them. Have passenger only missions which are worth 50 doubloons, and cargo missions worth 200k reals.

The economy was fine, rare mods were expensive and took investment to get. Cheap mods were plentiful. Building your own mods and selling them to the market was a good source of income. Now the available cash reserves of most players will have significantly dropped, which really does mean less overall flow. Less mods being built, less ships sailing the significantly less rewarding missions, and overall decreased economy.

Its not like the cost of production has gone down similarly to the average pocket book after all.

I buy trader's brigs at 8k from open market.

4k is base resource costs.

what terrible market you are trying to buy from?

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14 minutes ago, Archaos said:

But this is not the point. The point is, using your example, that a Leopard with a max gust boost can go faster than a T.Lynx without it at the T.Lynxes best point of sail, while before this was impossible.

You have not answered the question. What is the speed of lynx at 20-15 degrees to wind (its best point?) in OW.
 

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Just now, Wraith said:

Actually, in fact you can.  The forger is there for a reason, no?

 

The forger moves your shipyard and farm facilities now?  And why are players paying extra to get away from the consequences of terrible game design?

Edited by DreadPirateBob
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18 minutes ago, admin said:

You have not answered the question. What is the speed of lynx at 20-15 degrees to wind (its best point?) in OW.
 

I do not know what the actual speed should be, as I do not have all the data to calculate what it should be, but I do know that with the current patch much larger ships with the speed boost from gusts can catch ships without the speed boost that they should never be able to catch when at their best point of sail.

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