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Seasonal Update: Treacherous Waters - Preliminary information

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21 minutes ago, Destraex said:

That is a shame. US Military playing pirates is also a bit strange . I guess sometimes you have to play the bad guys.  But that is not a conversation for here. I understood thr pirates were collapsing anyways. So I doubt even if they say, that it was just these game changes.

Not sure what you are on about pirates man. Some of you forgetting that pirates are just another nation and all the same players as everybody else doing exact same gameplay as everyone else 😏  

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11 hours ago, admin said:

@van der Clam

OVERLOAD WORKAROUND!

Switch to enemy ship
Split the cargo
Drop to your ship
Switch back. 

This do not work if ennemy ship is sunk.

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10 hours ago, Wraith said:

This is the foundation of a more sane economy

I don't understand how your answer as an explanation of the issue(s) with AFK sailing.

How do I hurt others by sailing while making a cup of tea.  If I have NA on a second monitor while working, why is that negative to others.  Some of my journeys are long and I like to imagine I am the ship's commander and i have retired to my cabin.

Look, I trade.  I like the long sails, and even when I am actively playing I am often looking the chart (Recluse's map) or writing in the ship's log.  I don't do delivery (econ) missions very often, usually just a passenger, or two, when I am making a trip for another reason.  The trade I prefer is to supply resources to other players, or establish repairs at reasonable prices.  Trading shop goods and delivering econ missions become boring very quickly. 

But it seems that the @admin is against the idea of AFK sailing, and I don't understand why.  If I knew the reason why I might stop doing it so that I would not be contributing to a problem.  But, I suspect that when I am AFK I am not hurting anyone.

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11 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I don't understand how your answer as an explanation of the issue(s) with AFK sailing.

How do I hurt others by sailing while making a cup of tea.  If I have NA on a second monitor while working, why is that negative to others.  Some of my journeys are long and I like to imagine I am the ship's commander and i have retired to my cabin.

Look, I trade.  I like the long sails, and even when I am actively playing I am often looking the chart (Recluse's map) or writing in the ship's log.  I don't do delivery (econ) missions very often, usually just a passenger, or two, when I am making a trip for another reason.  The trade I prefer is to supply resources to other players, or establish repairs at reasonable prices.  Trading shop goods and delivering econ missions become boring very quickly. 

But it seems that the @admin is against the idea of AFK sailing, and I don't understand why.  If I knew the reason why I might stop doing it so that I would not be contributing to a problem.  But, I suspect that when I am AFK I am not hurting anyone.

From what I have seen over the last few years of the game it seems that the issue is not that there is a problem with AFK sailing but that the general outlook is against trading in general. A while back trading was a good way to generate funds for those players that did not like to pvp all the time. This was when trade goods had different weights and you had to actually think about what to carry and to where. This was outright killed when all trade goods went to 100 (this also removed any reason for a raider to actually board a ship and grab the cargo, it led to them just sinking the trade ship outright) and the profit per ton allocated went down and the sailing distance actually had very little effect on the profit to be gained. Next was the nerf to turn rates (the only real tactic that a trader could use to avoid getting their masts shot off) and this allows raiders to achieve more hits on a trader. Next we have delivery missions and the general opinion that they are cost free, that is a rather short sighted view. Nothing in this game is without some cost. Even a trader that loses a trader has to now spend time either building a new trader or going out to capture one (which usually are crap and could not outrun a 90 year old with a walker). Now we have wind gusts that will make it easier for a raider to catch a trader and now instead of having 20 seconds to identify WHERE the attacker is and adjust course to evade the target has only 8 seconds. This permits the trader just about enough time to say oh crap before the battle starts. Heaven forbid they might be using chat to discuss things or might be looking at the map or as one person said, getting a cup of tea. Next we will see limited ammo which I am sure traders will carry the smallest percentage of all classes of ships. I would not be surprised to see that trading disappears in the future.

 

TLDR: Basically, the game has always been focused on warship to warship/trader combat. Trading was a thing a while ago but the primary method of generating funds is through pvp combat. 

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16 hours ago, koltes said:

Well... we just lost the entire clan in pirate nation.
I'm in contact with most clan leaders in pirates.
Very active clan who was constantly recruiting players.
They have very large US based gaming community with lots of potential to intro more players to NA.
And  now they are gone...
 

Yep.  Before this update came along and absolutely crushed our Clan's morale, we were actually ramping up to do a big giveaway during the upcoming Steam Halloween Sale, to bring in more new players by handing out copies of the game to our members who had it on their Steam Wishlist.  We might be a large community by most standards, but we're a non-profit entity, so we try to sync up our giveaways with Steam Sales.  The MG XO--my second-in-command, who assists me with overseeing the MG community--was also very active in Naval Action.  He owns a chain of game stores in Texas, and in recent months, he's been branching his business out to include selling game keys, and I know he was very interested in reaching out to the publishers of this game to start selling Naval Action Steam keys, and hopefully get it distributed to more players in the US, all because he believed in its potential.  As to whether he is still interested in that, I can't say, but in light of this game branch literally becoming almost nonexistent within the last few days, we definitely won't be doing a giveaway.

The primary causes for this sudden turn of events are the drastic, untested changes to the game mechanics resulting from this latest update, and the way admin chose to respond to any kind of constructive criticism regarding these issues.  Those responses crushed any hope any of our members might have been clinging to for these changes to be reverted.  Those issues, were the final straw for us.

Now, I've been here since the earliest days of this game, and a member of these forums for even longer, and I've weathered all kinds of crazy changes to the game the same as a lot of you have, but that was also during development, when it was to be expected.  These extreme changes to what is supposed to be a fully-released game broke the core game mechanics, and it dropped the bottom out of the already struggling player-driven economy, so much so that even our most-dedicated Naval Action Clan members decided that they had finally had enough, and were stepping back from the game.  As more of them continued to voice their disappointment at the direction the game has taken with this update, it made me realize that I, too, no longer found the game to be rewarding for the time investment it requires.  After making our big post-release push to get our members back into Naval Action, and personally averaging between 4 to 8 hours a day in this game for the past 3 months straight, building our Clan into a competitive organization in a shorter amount of time than most, I've finally hit the wall, too.  It's becoming more and more clear to me that this game is being developed to cater to a hardcore, vocal minority within the playerbase.

I can't say for certain that our community is done with Naval Action for good, but after having spent years now working to get our community members engaged in this game, striving against the odds to keep them engaged in spite of the game's shortcomings, and having watched so many of them leave in favor of games that are more rewarding to them for their time, I would say the outlook is anything but great.

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2 hours ago, Bluetooth said:

Do you still lose all your ship knowledge when you do this ?

Would be crazy if you do ??

I tested this little switch/split/switch idea and yes it will get the cargo to your ship, but at a cost. Your knowledge slots remain unchanged while in the battle but once you leave they are lost.

I enabled expert carpenter on my surprise, this increased the hull repair usage to 4. I captured a ship, switched. Exited the inventory screen to access the cargo (required) and split the cargo. Then hit x to interact with my original ship to switch back and moved the cargo. Checked repair and it was still at 4. Upon returning to port though I checked and all knowledge slots were blank.

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I would like to suggest two additions. First a player that leaves a PvP battle should have a wind bonus for at least 5 minutes to avoid being tagged over and over again by wind bonused ships waiting outside the battle. There must be a chance to escape from a gank. This would promote PvP. Second the time for the wind bonus for trader ships should be doubled to promote trading activities.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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2 hours ago, WilsonMG said:

I can't say for certain that our community is done with Naval Action for good, but after having spent years now working to get our community members engaged in this game, striving against the odds to keep them engaged in spite of the game's shortcomings, and having watched so many of them leave in favor of games that are more rewarding to them for their time, I would say the outlook is anything but great.

Sad day nevertheless 🙁
Regardless whether you are a pirate or an enemy player I'm sad to see you go man. I know for a fact that you done much and truly well for your community and for this game community.
We need more sane people like yourself.

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8 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I would like to suggest two additions. First a player that leaves a PvP battle should have a wind bonus for at least 5 minutes to avoid being tagged over and over again by wind bonused ships waiting outside the battle. There must be a chance to escape from a gank. This would promote PvP. Second the time for the wind bonus for trader ships should be doubled to promote trading activities.

muhaha. tell me, why has there to be a chance to escape a counter-gank? because it suits your playstyle. overwhelming force against a weak target and run like hell from serious opposition. aren´t there any hard-balled raiders here anymore?? :)

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14 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

muhaha. tell me, why has there to be a chance to escape a counter-gank? because it suits your playstyle. overwhelming force against a weak target and run like hell from serious opposition. aren´t there any hard-balled raiders here anymore?? :)

There are some left. 😉 Sadly there are way more soft balled gankers here (and I except you because I fought against you many times and I know you are an excellent player). To answers your question: otherwise lone hunters will disappear in a long run as traders will. And who should be ganked than with super wind bonuses Christians catching Trinkos that left battles recently. Bad for all.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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3 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

There are some left. 😉 Sadly there are way more soft balled gankers here (and I except you because I fought against you many times and I know you are an excellent player). 

far from excellent but humble thanks. my opinion is that we already have way too overpowered ships with all the upgrades and books and repair stuff . so my dear friend, I am and will be against more possibilities to escape from battles unscathed. best wishes, Gene

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2 hours ago, WilsonMG said:

Yep.  Before this update came along and absolutely crushed our Clan's morale, we were actually ramping up to do a big giveaway during the upcoming Steam Halloween Sale, to bring in more new players by handing out copies of the game to our members who had it on their Steam Wishlist.  We might be a large community by most standards, but we're a non-profit entity, so we try to sync up our giveaways with Steam Sales.  The MG XO--my second-in-command, who assists me with overseeing the MG community--was also very active in Naval Action.  He owns a chain of game stores in Texas, and in recent months, he's been branching his business out to include selling game keys, and I know he was very interested in reaching out to the publishers of this game to start selling Naval Action Steam keys, and hopefully get it distributed to more players in the US, all because he believed in its potential.  As to whether he is still interested in that, I can't say, but in light of this game branch literally becoming almost nonexistent within the last few days, we definitely won't be doing a giveaway.

The primary causes for this sudden turn of events are the drastic, untested changes to the game mechanics resulting from this latest update, and the way admin chose to respond to any kind of constructive criticism regarding these issues.  Those responses crushed any hope any of our members might have been clinging to for these changes to be reverted.  Those issues, were the final straw for us.

Now, I've been here since the earliest days of this game, and a member of these forums for even longer, and I've weathered all kinds of crazy changes to the game the same as a lot of you have, but that was also during development, when it was to be expected.  These extreme changes to what is supposed to be a fully-released game broke the core game mechanics, and it dropped the bottom out of the already struggling player-driven economy, so much so that even our most-dedicated Naval Action Clan members decided that they had finally had enough, and were stepping back from the game.  As more them continued to voice their disappointment at the direction the game has taken with this update, it made me realize that I, too, no longer found the game to be rewarding for the time investment it requires.  After making our big post-release push to get our members back into Naval Action, and personally averaging between 4 to 8 hours a day in this game for the past 3 months straight, building our Clan into a competitive organization in a shorter amount of time than most, I've finally hit the wall, too.  It's becoming more and more clear to me that this game is being developed to cater to a hardcore, vocal minority within the playerbase.

I can't say for certain that our community is done with Naval Action for good, but after having spent years now working to get our community members engaged in this game, striving against the odds to keep them engaged in spite of the game's shortcomings, and having watched so many of them leave in favor of games that are more rewarding to them for their time, I would say the outlook is anything but great.

Totally agree. It's supposed to be a released game, I even think it could be a reason for refund, this is not what I bought 

Edited by zaba
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7 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

my opinion is that we already have way too overpowered ships with all the upgrades and books and repair stuff . so my dear friend, I am and will be against more possibilities to escape from battles unscathed. best wishes, Gene

I agree on that. A Trincomalee should never been catched by a Wasa speedwise. But look at the facts. I can take a lone hunting fitted ship which will be very expensive. I sail to a hot spot. I fight. I have to be fast because 90% of the players run. Also I need to be fast to escape from specialized gankers like Signore M. who sail speed modded Christians in large groups with smaller ships. With luck I can escape some times but now guess what will happen if they just catch the wind bonus and wait outside. They can do this repeatingly and I was reported by clan mates that this is happening already. So what do you guess will happen? But again, I am also completely against all the upgrade magic. Every Trincomalee should be faster than a Wasa and every Wasa should be faster than a Christian. 

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1 minute ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I agree on that. A Trincomalee should never been catched by a Wasa speedwise. But look at the facts. I can take a lone hunting fitted ship which will be very expensive. I sail to a hot spot. I fight. I have to be fast because 90% of the players run. Also I need to be fast to escape from specialized gankers like Signore M. who sail speed modded Christians in large groups with smaller ships. With luck I can escape some times but now guess what will happen if they just catch the wind bonus and wait outside. They can do this repeatingly and I was reported by clan mates that this is happening already. So what do you guess will happen? But again, I am also completely against all the upgrade magic. Every Trincomalee should be faster than a Wasa and every Wasa should be faster than a Christian. 

I totally agree!

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Not sure that the nerf at the delivery mission work against the alts: yesterday i made a trip to the secret island in the  ocean ad i saw 8 basic cutter  traveling in a conga line  from  Rum Cove to kidd..

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40 minutes ago, zaba said:

Totally agree. It's supposed to be a released game, I even think it could be a reason for refund, this is not what I bought 

Many released games have added new content after release.  Release just means all the core mechanics are done and aren't going to be changed. Nothing about the core mechanics was changed.  Hell the only thing they did was added more content.   Something the game needs.  

I mean I'll use a prime big example of how games changed over time from original....just look at WoW and how much different it was from the start that they actually came back with WoW Classic cause of all the changes.  Not that I ever played WoW but it's just an example to show how games do change after release.   So exactly what isn't what you bought?  The core rules and mechanics is still a Naval age of sailing MMO sandbox?  As much as I don't like some of the things the dev teams do at times, that still hasn't changed.  

 

Now if I can just get this stupid graphical stutter in my game to stop or figured out I'll be a happy camper.......

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14 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

I seem to be the one that actually enjoys the faster travel times and finding people quicker. Shock, horror, Naval Action has more action.

+1

btw, wind boost should be dynamic...they have to move with clouds or storm or something that cannot be ''activated'' by a click. you have to sail in that area to have the wind boost, not sailing always to the same point to have a boost...it isn't a warp-gate.

now you have to improve again trading. PVE'rs will enjoy the wind boost cause they can study the best route to travel from A to B and you will never get ganked even if you have an enemy on your tail. just aim for a boost and activate it some seconds before the enemy so you gain distance until the next boost. 

same for PVP'er. they have to study most populated trading route and where can they attack using the boost.

good introduction, loki is really fun and logbook a bit OP but it's only for few minutes.  Neutral Raids looks a little too hard but never tried yet.

 

best solution should be dynamic wind boost following clouds, btw.  and maybe some kind of item like ''forecast news'' that everyone can collect discovering boost (moving ones)around the map while sailing and selling it. those news will deplete soon due to moving boost but it's the first introduction to EXPLORATION in naval action

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4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Release just means all the core mechanics are done and aren't going to be changed

Well, this is exactly what is happening here

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3 hours ago, Raekur said:

I tested this little switch/split/switch idea and yes it will get the cargo to your ship, but at a cost. Your knowledge slots remain unchanged while in the battle but once you leave they are lost.

I enabled expert carpenter on my surprise, this increased the hull repair usage to 4. I captured a ship, switched. Exited the inventory screen to access the cargo (required) and split the cargo. Then hit x to interact with my original ship to switch back and moved the cargo. Checked repair and it was still at 4. Upon returning to port though I checked and all knowledge slots were blank.

Thsnks for the reply. I hought so. So you end up in the OW with no ship knowledge. Not a good move. 

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Did a test of the wind boost.

Built a T/WO Rattisvan. Left Aves. Found a 54% wind boost for 12min duration.

Came and sailed circles round aves at up to 40 knots lol.

A pirate frigate left port.

Still boosted, I chased him at nearly 40 knots. Directly behind him.

Tagged him and fired a couple of test chain shots at him.

I explained what I was doing and we parted ways.

This was no gust or trade wind.

It was a jet engine and took away all feelings of age of sail.

I hope this arcade style of play is removed.

It used to feel like a big map and a long sail to get somewhere. It had scope and depth. Places seemed a long way off. I liked that.

 

Edited by Bluetooth
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14 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

I seem to be the one that actually enjoys the faster travel times and finding people quicker. Shock, horror, Naval Action has more action.

Nope, i like the windboost a lot. Way more action, im being sunk more often and I get to fight more 😁

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8 minutes ago, Bluetooth said:

Did a test of the wind boost.

Built a T/WO Rattisvan. Left Aves. Found a 54% wind boost for 12min duration.

Came and sailed circles round aves at up to 40 knots lol.

A pirate frigate left port.

Still boosted, I chased him at nearly 40 knots. Directly behind him.

Tagged him and fired a couple of test chain shots at him.

I explained what I was doing and we parted ways.

This was no gust or trade wind.

It was a jet engine and took away all feelings of age of sail.

I hope this arcade style of play is removed.

It used to feel like a big map and a long sail to get somewhere. It had scope and depth. Places seemed a long way off. I liked that.

 

Pirfrigate could've outturned (Rattvisans and bigger ships that are speedboosted have a turning circle of a frigging Truck) you easily and you would have had a shit tag, he would have been able to escape and your windboost is gone ;)

Edited by Je maintiendrai

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16 hours ago, koltes said:

My follow up feedback based on yesterday play.

 

WINDS

Wind gasp is good to have, but it is a fantasy that two ships in one location and time have different wind speed. I will be fine with OW proposed weather system or trade winds. I will even be fine if specific areas just give speed boosts (quite a bit away from the shore) or they can be directional. But they have to be SAME for all ships in that given location. 
I sailed for 20 years. Wind gasps are not some point in the ocean where it suddenly blows. Its a continues wind channel and anyone entering that channel will experience A SERIES of wind gasps because wind in that channel is wild.

The way the wind mechanic was implemented is not a wind gasp, but more of a wind slingshot. And that is far from being realistic. 
 

OPEN WORLD

I sailed for 5 hours yesterday. I have been around KPR, I jumped to Tombado and sailed from there to Russian territory. I used my alt to sail from Rio Seco up to US. In overall I found about 95% less teaders. I dont know why. Or what was the reason behind it. But its a fact. Normally I would get 10+ easy averaging 3 per hour. Yesterday I got 2 for 5 hours sailing with server population been higher than usual. I will test more, but if this going to be continues business this tells me that there will be drastic reduction of trader targets in OW.

I’ll let you decide if this is a bad or a good thing

Great summary  @koltes +1

I agree, Wind Gusts WOULD be fine, if there WOULD be defined areas in OW where EVERYONE get a boost !!

At best only in a certain direction and when he leaves this specified area, the boost is gone...but i could live temporarily for all directions

...but the idea that, as you pointed out, 2 ships at the same spot at the same time, have different wind speeds is just ridiculous at heart and defies EVERY principle of this game being realistic :( 

 

Now, as we learnend, you have good relations to @admin, for the sake of us all and the welfare of NA, you should do your best to convince him about the completly wrong direction the game has taken with the Gusts are implimented now...good luck, Mate :) 

 

Edited by Sir Max Magic
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4 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

Now, as we learnend, you have good relations to @admin, for the sake of us all and the welfare of NA, you should do your best to convince him about the completly wrong direction the game has taken with the Gusts are implimented now...good luck, Mate :) 

I honestly don't know where you got this idea from mate. I'm just another player lol
I have no connection or ties to the dev team 

Edited by koltes

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