Upcoming patch Alpha-2 v62

[Absolute0CA]

Secondaries are categorically useless, or damn near so anyways.

[Angus MacDuff]

20 minutes ago, Absolute0CA said:

Secondaries are categorically useless, or damn near so anyways.

I'm only beginning on this, but I have found that secondaries firing HE rounds generate fire...and fire sinks ships before structural damage.  Once they can be designated to a separate target, they will become very important.

[Skeksis]

2 hours ago, Absolute0CA said:

Secondaries are categorically useless, or damn near so anyways.

They shouldn’t be, I tried multiple secondaries designs to destroy the unescorted cargo ship mission but to no avail, eventually gave in and used the big guns.

I think there’s a real importance to keep the game’s combat interesting, lately I’ve been playing at x5 game speed (feedback), since there’s simply nothing else to do but to plot a course.

Importance should include effective secondaries, along with micromanagement of damage control and modal/independent targeting. By nerfing secondaries, it means there no need for independent targeting, no need for micromanagement. By just having a big gun’s game and by clicking on the Auto-AI-Captain there’s are real danger of players just sitting back and watching the combat. Designer tool will be the game.

Dev’s might not realize it yet but I think they’re at an important cross-roads in there development (that is without any campaign info).

Edited October 21, 2019 by Skeksis

[Shaun]

26 minutes ago, Skeksis said:

They shouldn’t be, I try multiple secondaries designs to destroy the unescorted cargo ship mission but to no avail, eventually gave in and used the big guns.

I think there’s a real importance to keep the game’s combat interesting, lately I’ve been playing at x5 game speed (feedback), since there’s simply nothing else to do but to plot a course.

Importance should include effective secondaries, along with micromanagement of damage control and modal/independent targeting. By nerfing secondaries, it means there no need for independent targeting, no need for micromanagement. By just having a big gun’s game and by clicking on the Auto-AI-Captain there’s are real danger of players just sitting back and watching the combat. Designer tool will be the game.

Dev’s might not realize it yet but I think they’re at an important cross-roads in there development (that is without any campaign info).

I find the enemy convoy missions easy with secondaries if you use Lyddite lmao

[Skeksis]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

I find the enemy convoy missions easy with secondaries if you use Lyddite lmao

But are you also saying that you agree with nerfing secondaries.

Edited October 21, 2019 by Skeksis

[Shaun]

1 hour ago, Skeksis said:

But are you also saying that you agree with nerfing secondaries.

 

No because without Lyddite they're pretty much pointless.

[ColonelHenry]

I am seriously unhappy with the nerf to small guns. They are extremely useless as of now. I know that there are others balancing factors being changed thus I will reserve my judgement until the patch drops. However, if it still takes 20 mins to kill a destroyer 2km away with 10 2'', 4 5'', 6 6'' then I think you guys are driving this game toward the wrong direction.

[Tousansons]

I too find concerning to see a nerf of small guns (main and secondaries) while there is already report of them being inacurate and too weak damage wise.

They look good but cost money and weight. Why invest in something like that when I can put another triple 18inch turret in the modern battleship scenario for example, they hit DD's far more often than the constant shower of fire of secondary guns.

 

[Cptbarney]

Hope the devs read our concerns, secondaries need better accuracy mods and base's compared to main guns since they are smaller, lighter and easier to aim with plus not as complex and require less crew, so after a few volleys secondaries should get increasingly accurate as time goes on. Even in world of warships where secondaries are kinda useless the ones with decent range and also gud accuracy (loike miss georgia!) happen to have very good and usable secondaries.

Also buffing them (not going widly though), will make the modelling and coding worth while but also allows for a greater opportunity of designs in general.

I didnt actually notice the nerf untill others pointed it out too be honest.

sorry if this sounds repeatitive.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Cptbarney
Grammar mistakes

[RedParadize]

@Cptbarney I agree with secondaries being useless. However I am not sure if they should have a specific accuracy buff compared to main. You see I worry about the cruiser class. If only secondary get buffed then there wont be much point to them.

I think the the best way would be to have both main and secondary being more accurate at mid and close range as it become straight and less ballistic. On top of it I would nerf bug turret rotation time or have it kind of delayed. That would make the smaller caliber more quick and accurate against fast small boat. 
 

Edited October 22, 2019 by RedParadize

[Merc_]

56 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

@Cptbarney I agree with secondaries being useless. However I am not sure if they should have a specific accuracy buff compared to main. You see I worry about the cruiser class. If only secondary get buffed then there wont be much point to them.

I think the the best way would be to have both main and secondary being more accurate at mid and close range as it become straight and less ballistic. On top of it I would nerf bug turret rotation time or have it kind of delayed. That would make the smaller caliber more quick and accurate against fast small boat. 
 

According to the change log all guns will be more accurate at close  ranges 

[Latur Husky]

Maybe instead of balancing reload times of Main guns/secondaries they should make automatic reload more attractive. Right now it's best to stick with standard reload considering all the sacrifices you have to make to get that bonus to reload.

[RedParadize]

@Merc_

I have seen it. But if its for all gun then the small gun and secondary will not become more relevant.

[Merc_]

19 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

@Merc_

I have seen it. But if its for all gun then the small gun and secondary will not become more relevant.

Depends on how that mechanic works specifically I would presume 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I have noticed secondaries to be all but useless too.

Most of the time I don't even add secondary guns to my capital ships, a BB size shell almost one hit salvo's a destroyer, and you hit with about the same amount of time as secondaries would take to get a hit.

Logically a battery of 5-10 5 inch guns would make short work of a pesky torpedo boat, but instead they just...Miss...Miss...Miss...Damage a single compartment...Miss.

[DeadlyWalrus]

Accuracy seems to scale pretty heavily with gun size, so main guns and large secondaries are often more effective despite their lower rate of fire.  However, tech level also has a pretty big impact, so it's not always the case that the smaller guns are completely useless.

[Absolute0CA]

1 hour ago, DeadlyWalrus said:

Accuracy seems to scale pretty heavily with gun size, so main guns and large secondaries are often more effective despite their lower rate of fire.  However, tech level also has a pretty big impact, so it's not always the case that the smaller guns are completely useless.

As I said in another thread just because it’s bigger doesn’t mean it’s better. Take a look at some a Mark 3 of an inch smaller is often better than a Mark 2 the size above, and a Mark 1 Two sizes above.

[RedParadize]

@Absolute0CA
Yes, but take the "destroy a full fleet". Even with the gun grade there is still no point opting for the 15inch over the 17inch (17 is indeed better than 18). You can forget anything lower than that.

Edited October 22, 2019 by RedParadize

[Absolute0CA]

6 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

@Absolute0CA
Yes, but take the "destroy a full fleet". Even with the gun grade there is still no point opting for the 15inch over the 17inch (17 is indeed better than 18). You can forget anything lower than that.

To be honest that’s a perfect showcase of the historical going up 1” isn’t worth it but going up 2” is.

[RedParadize]

Yes and no. I originally trough 15" was the best compromise in that scenario. On paper it seem to be but 16" is still better than it in practice. The 17" is by a long shot better, on all ship and against anything.

[ThatZenoGuy]

7 hours ago, DeadlyWalrus said:

Accuracy seems to scale pretty heavily with gun size, so main guns and large secondaries are often more effective despite their lower rate of fire.  However, tech level also has a pretty big impact, so it's not always the case that the smaller guns are completely useless.

I used a huge cluster of triple 5 inch guns in the 'modern battleship' mission, and they killed absolutely zero destroyers, in fact the huge clumsy 18 inchers did a much better job at it.

[Purgato]

2 hours ago, ThatZenoGuy said:

I used a huge cluster of triple 5 inch guns in the 'modern battleship' mission, and they killed absolutely zero destroyers, in fact the huge clumsy 18 inchers did a much better job at it.

I'd have to agree, secondary guns really need to have a bit more of a tweak. They're oddly useless against the smaller ships, even unarmored ones. 

Of course a 18 inch shell would be able to one shot most ships of a smaller class, but the fact that secondaries fail to function effectively is rather silly.

[ThatZenoGuy]

7 hours ago, Purgato said:

I'd have to agree, secondary guns really need to have a bit more of a tweak. They're oddly useless against the smaller ships, even unarmored ones. 

Of course a 18 inch shell would be able to one shot most ships of a smaller class, but the fact that secondaries fail to function effectively is rather silly.

Considering ROF and turret traverse on fast moving targets, a 18 inch gun should be much less capable of killing a DD even when damage is factored into it.

For every shot of a 18 inch gun, a 5 inch gun historically could fire, what? 30-60 rounds? 

[Absolute0CA]

4 hours ago, ThatZenoGuy said:

Considering ROF and turret traverse on fast moving targets, a 18 inch gun should be much less capable of killing a DD even when damage is factored into it.

For every shot of a 18 inch gun, a 5 inch gun historically could fire, what? 30-60 rounds? 

Only 10-12, the big thing is though there is a lot more of them and they engage at much shorter distances.

[mcmurphy man]

Awesome news! I'm very eager to see this patch drop. One thing I noticed that wasn't on the list, but I hope will be in a future update is that the player can manually set targets for main guns apart from the secondary guns.