>>>Combat Feedback<<<

[Latur Husky]

9 hours ago, Eblingus said:

+1

Just bought the game, and must say, am quite disappointed. This page https://www.dreadnoughts.ultimateadmiral.com/post/deep-battle-system claims thirteen times that the game uses "realistic" mechanics, but the game is even less realistic than world of warships. What is the benchmark the developers are using, Pokemon?  All guns in this game have pathetically short effective range due to unrealistic inaccuracy. I had hopes of recreating great dreadnought battles, but instead am forced to slug it out at a few thousand meters.  Lame

If we're talking about WWI Era Dreadnoughts their accuracy was questionable at most. I do agree though that some values needs tweaking and adjusting (more or less). Also the game is in early Alpha stage what did you expect buying it? 

[Finnwolf88]

In the pursuit mission I had two battlecruisers that targeted one enemy battleship. It got stuck to ladder aiming and didnt get the cruising speed accuracy modifier at all for some reason when i had tight formation selected. In normal formation it locked on after two salvos, but when i tried tight again with the other BB it got stuck to ladder aiming again until i set it to normal. Tight is supposed to give you a 5% accuracy buff ( which it did) but losing the speed and locked buffs render it kinda useless. 

[Latur Husky]

55 minutes ago, Finnwolf88 said:

In the pursuit mission I had two battlecruisers that targeted one enemy battleship. It got stuck to ladder aiming and didnt get the cruising speed accuracy modifier at all for some reason when i had tight formation selected. In normal formation it locked on after two salvos, but when i tried tight again with the other BB it got stuck to ladder aiming again until i set it to normal. Tight is supposed to give you a 5% accuracy buff ( which it did) but losing the speed and locked buffs render it kinda useless. 

First of all, don't use formation, they're absolutely useless. However is you use them, you should use the correct one for the situation. In this mission you'll be chasing your target so best set up would be Abreast formation with Tight setting this way your vessels won't get in each others way while aiming and shooting.... That is if they won't decide to do something stupid like turn around for some weird reason.

Secondly for that mission you need high speed battleship, with good long range accuracy. Go for reconnaissance tech and install best Rangefinder and Radar II. 406mm Guns (16") in double or triple barrel configuration and top speed of 30knt at least (you can easily go for 33knt which is max for the hull). If needed reduce armor a bit and play with other things to balance weight and cost so you can get up to 2 Battleships in 3 x 3 16" configuration.

For Battle cruisers yo can try this configuration:

Edited October 26, 2019 by Asthaven

[sarrumac]

On 10/17/2019 at 12:53 AM, imeoin01 said:

How can you complete the WIP Dreadnought mission. I've tried ships with a bunch of 14 inch guns, a fast dreadnought with 12 inch guns as well as many different combinations, Close combat and long distance combat. However no matter what options I chose or what weapons I have, the mission is completely impossible unless I'm very lucky.

 

Even when I bombard with pre-dreadnoughts with AP and HE shells, they can apparently take like a hundred hits before they eventually sink because pre dreadnoughts were well know for their strong armor.

I honestly have now idea how to use my guns effectively. The game gives no hints and trying to figure it out is frustrating. I was able to figure other issues I has like customizing ships and using torpedo tubes. But this is a different situation and is causing my more frustration.

I would advise for the american hull, use 13 inch guns and a lot of armor. At the sacrifice of speed.

[G777GUN]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:37 PM, Asthaven said:

Small caliber guns still have blind gunners. 

16% Hit chance, that's how much I got while being 200m away from enemy ship. Not to mention that enemy was nearly stationary and so did Helena.

During 5 minutes, Battleship that was 4 km away managed to score more hits from main battery than these two cruisers all together

 Agreed. Small caliber guns are just too inacurate. Within 500 meters all negative figures that make the gunners innacurate should be lifted. Its even worse against TB's especially on a rough day because they spend most of the time sailing like bloomin submarines.

[Nick Thomadis]

I have to remind that small damage  is not shown in floating info. Secondaries might hit often, making small structural damage, igniting fires and flooding, but this is now not visible in UI. You can check the ship damage window and it should include the full update of damage according to sections being hit.

[G777GUN]

Can the Devs plz make the parts of the ships just go anywhere the player wants?

I want to be able to build a Nelson class BB instead of the generic usual ships.

[G777GUN]

I have noticed improvements in the gunnery. Still though just because you dont have the best tower still dont mean that it should miss at point blank range. Which is what he is on about. Its just not hitting the target that can be frustrating.

5 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

I have to remind that small damage  is not shown in floating info. Secondaries might hit often, making small structural damage, igniting fires and flooding, but this is now not visible in UI. You can check the ship damage window and it should include the full update of damage according to sections being hit.

 

[RedParadize]

I had a very interesting match today. The scenario was "destroy a full fleet". I was designing a long range BC interceptor, for the fun of it. And interestingly the enemy fleet decided to collaborate. After damaging the two BBs all the fleet disengaged and turned away. Lucky for me my 3 BC were fast, 34kn. So they could not outrun me. Anyways, I chased and skirmished with it for a good 40 min, one of my BC got engine crited and could not keep up. So I took my two intact BC and go around them the other way around to force them to turn back. It worked. I managed to turn them back almost toward my damaged BC. I sink all exept 2 DDs. Was very fun!

[Steeltrap]

There does appear to be a significant mismatch between the accuracy of main guns and secondary/casemate guns.

All other factors being equal, the main determinants of accuracy ought to be range and fire control. By all other factors I'm including the gun type and RoF. Change those and you change the accuracy, obviously, but I think it's far too extreme between guns classed as main calibre and those of secondary/casemate guns for vessels with relatively crude fire control.

That's a major reason for having multiple calibres before sophisticated centralised fire control was a thing. Without better fire control, rate of fire was also a significant contributor as it allowed more opportunities to hit (duh) but also more information (splashes) on which to base corrections.

I had a battle on the new patch where my CA with a bunch of 5" casemate guns was blazing away at an enemy TB travelling parallel with me at about the same speed (~16kts)  at 200m. Proved to be all but useless.

I can't help but feel that either the smaller guns need a different rate of change of accuracy based on range (the base accuracy for those guns was 40% to 1km), or suffer less of a penalty for firing at a small target, or get a higher bonus for being 'locked on' for every group of 'x' shots they take (5, or 10, whatever), or have extra range bands (0-500m, 501-1km, although I expect that would be a hassle for the UI etc).

Regardless, SOMETHING so that the best strategy for killing TBs isn't stuffing your hull with as many 9-11" guns you can and forgetting casemate guns entirely.

It's a different matter once you start getting better fire control, although of course ultimately you start getting secondary fire control, too.

But technology up to and including WW1 meant that RoF was important, and smaller gun calibres weren't pointless. I had the report set on the most detailed it could be, and I was often jumping to the enemy ship to watch, and I did win that scenario eventually with a largely casemate gunned ship (I was curious). But I know I could have done it more quickly and simply jamming as many main calibre guns on a hull as possible and I do not believe that ought to be the case for early ships, even those with early rangefinder tech.

Mind you, deadeye secondary/casemate guns make the viability of TBs/DDs an issue, too, so clearly it's a fine point of balance. But if they get within crazy ranges to nail you with torps there ought to be a price to pay beyond that of the main guns.

I appreciate the balance is a tricky issue, and it's early in the piece, so I'm not at all having a whinge. Just concurring that I still think the importance of secondary/casemate batteries in earlier tech ships are being undersold. I also know others have mentioned it, but I wanted to add my voice to that feedback.

Cheers

p.s. I've seen some "numbers don't matter" YT videos, and I think the accuracy of those main guns are nuts, but that's an entirely different conversation.

 

[Tankaxe]

Ladder aiming is still in a loop and they wont lock on to the target even when it reaches %100. this bad for triple turrets as ladder aiming forces them to fire two shots and if you entertain a panzerschiffe a ladder loop would cripple a 3rd of your firepower.

[Absolute0CA]

6 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

I have to remind that small damage  is not shown in floating info. Secondaries might hit often, making small structural damage, igniting fires and flooding, but this is now not visible in UI. You can check the ship damage window and it should include the full update of damage according to sections being hit.

I understand this... its just and even when we select the enemy ship the hit rate is just pathetic, like I had a battleship with damn near countless 6",5",3" guns and 3x2 9" on that torpedo boat mission, the torpedo boats were all mostly damaged and killed by the 9" guns not the 20+ casemates a side that I had.

[Cptbarney]

7 hours ago, G777GUN said:

Can the Devs plz make the parts of the ships just go anywhere the player wants?

I want to be able to build a Nelson class BB instead of the generic usual ships.

Yes pls, izumo, nelson, dunkerque and other funky styles would be really cool to have, plus gives more interesting ways to play.

That ship there looks like the izmail, such an awkward turret scheme for angling lol.

[G777GUN]

5 minutes ago, Cptbarney said:

Yes pls, izumo, nelson, dunkerque and other funky styles would be really cool to have, plus gives more interesting ways to play.

That ship there looks like the izmail, such an awkward turret scheme for angling lol.

 

I think its the Gangut. Or suppose to be. Never heard of the Izmail. Will look it up later.

The turret design is actually not a bad idea. Just means your ship can be shorter and better armour protected around the vitals. One big downside is you cant mount any deck decondary guns. So in WW2 it might be a problem. Because planes.

Another thing is that the game does not take into consideration top weight. This russian ship would be far more stable than others.
Not to mention that angling is something this shiip could do well while engaging or retreating. Stay at 45 degrees of your target and that armour give an effective thickness of 300mm's or more. 

[Scullmer]

Loving the game. I have noticed two issues for me so far while in combat. One is, I do not notice torpedoes that have been fired at me, is there any visible indication on the screen? as there is torpedo spotting from the bridges but it is not until I have no time to avoid or I get hit, If not, could we have a tracking icon on the torpedoes if it is spotted by the towers?

Point Two,  the main gun accuracy for under 10K, example, while playing “Sink a fleet” I could hit ships using 15” guns out to 15k regularly, but as soon as the range gets below about 10k the projectiles cross paths and is purely spray and pray, hits only being lucky. The rear turrets arch of fire overlaps the front guns arch of fire and the projectiles go everywhere but on target, I’m talking full ship lengths of inaccuracy below 10k. The rear guns splash in front of the ship and the forward guns splash to the rear of the ship.  As soon as the gun elevation angle and rotation angle meet at a curtain point, and I know the degree of angle is different between the rear and forward guns, but they should still meet at a point of impact, not crisscross way before the impact point. This is what I have noticed, and straggly it only seems to be in this scenario, so far. My ship has the highest Radar and range finder/ control tower installed and I am normally at cruise speed and steady when testing.    

[Cptbarney]

6 minutes ago, G777GUN said:

 

I think its the Gangut. Or suppose to be. Never heard of the Izmail. Will look it up later.

The turret design is actually not a bad idea. Just means your ship can be shorter and better armour protected around the vitals. One big downside is you cant mount any deck decondary guns. So in WW2 it might be a problem. Because planes.

Another thing is that the game does not take into consideration top weight. This russian ship would be far more stable than others.
Not to mention that angling is something this shiip could do well while engaging or retreating. Stay at 45 degrees of your target and that armour give an effective thickness of 300mm's or more. 

Ahh i forgot about miss gangut, was thinking of wows's tier6 russian izmail, although i doubt you will be able to find it since im not sure it actually existed (it might actually be the famed supergangut). Om not sure what the best angling degree is atm, probs is 45 degrees, i might try 30 degrees and 20 degrees (although turrets will need to be more spaced out, sigh this is were a nelson, izumo and dunkerque design would be perfect for this).

hope they include top weight in the later patches doe!

can't wait for the campaign.

[Zanaduz]

@G777GUN The “Izmail” is generally more commonly referred to as the Borodino-class battlecruisers (laid down but incomplete due to the Russian Revolution).

 

On-topic: I had an issue with the semi-dreadnought mission in that I can usually sink the semi-dreadnought itself with little problem, but her escort cruisers will then hightail away and go invisible, at which point my fleet is unable to catch them, failing the mission. The AI built cruisers I get are always slower than the opposing cruisers (and most of the time my own battleship!), making them useless for chasing down the cruisers to force the engagement. I do wish I had more ability to build the allied ships in larger fleet engagements such as this scenario. The AI designs tend to be overly focused on firepower to the detriment of speed and survivability.

[Fishyfish]

I haven't had much time to play since the update, swamped with other less warship related responsibilities but in the limited time I have been able to play I've noticed a glaring change. Pre patch I could actually hit enemy warships. Now it seems as though my main battery accuracy is wholly nonexistent. Infact I got into the "Defeat the semi-dreadnought" battle last night and got entirely devastated. Despite sailing up to about 1k and mongering around at that range my main battery 12in guns couldn't hit the enemy. Not when I was standing still, not when they were standing still, tangled up on their own cruiser and happily ignoring my BB to delete my one of my cruisers. My 5in guns were gleefully glancing, popping and dinking away to no avail, while Ray Charles directed my main battery.. 

 

Love the new hulls though, can't wait to sink my teeth into that semi dreadnought hull.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Fishyfish

[Steeltrap]

20 hours ago, Absolute0CA said:

I understand this... its just and even when we select the enemy ship the hit rate is just pathetic, like I had a battleship with damn near countless 6",5",3" guns and 3x2 9" on that torpedo boat mission, the torpedo boats were all mostly damaged and killed by the 9" guns not the 20+ casemates a side that I had.

This is what I was getting at, too.

The casemate guns can be quite effective against CLs etc. It seems the penalty for the size of the TB is such, however, they just aren't effective against it. Which, as I pointed out, is rather ironic as those guns were sometimes referred to as anti-torpedo boat defence/guns.

I also knew the 3" guns don't show on the screen other than the specific target's log, and they can add up against unarmoured targets, but the 4-6" casemate guns missing constantly at 200m is more the issue.

I think you might have said it, and I did, but it might be they need a 'minimum range' within which those guns become pretty damn accurate. Furthermore, the big guns ought to become affected by training and aiming difficulties on quickly moving small targets at close range, kind of the way games give long arms a penalty at point blank but not pistols or SMGs.

Nobody gets within 500m of an enemy capital gunship of the day covered in casemate guns and even 3" on the superstructure unless they have no choice or are completely crazy, lol.

[sarrumac]

Targetting:

-I would like a way to assign a target independentely for each ship in a division.

-I would like the ability to give an attack order that CANNOT under any circumstances be overrun by the AI. I understand that the AI targeting system is pretty good, but sometimes the best target is still the half crippled light cruiser with his dangerously close torpedoes.

-This may sound silly but i would like a way to force launch torpedoes. Sometimes the ennemy LC+DD form a swarm of smoke and sending a volley of random torpedoes in there is very tempting.

Edited October 28, 2019 by sarrumac

[Latur Husky]

3 hours ago, sarrumac said:

Targetting:

-I would like a way to assign a target independentely for each ship in a division.

-I would like the ability to give an attack order that CANNOT under any circumstances be overrun by the AI. I understand that the AI targeting system is pretty good, but sometimes the best target is still the half crippled light cruiser with his dangerously close torpedoes.

-This may sound silly but i would like a way to force launch torpedoes. Sometimes the ennemy LC+DD form a swarm of smoke and sending a volley of random torpedoes in there is very tempting.

Hold Ctrl while assigning target to order only one of your ships to shoot at it.

AI auto changing targets is indeed annoying and there is no good solution for that at the moment.

You can force launch torpedoes, technically. If you have them set to safe or off, just switch them to aggressive whenever you want them to be fired. Bear in mind that your ships will have to take time to aim them if you had them turned off.

[sarrumac]

11 minutes ago, Asthaven said:

Hold Ctrl while assigning target to order only one of your ships to shoot at it.

AI auto changing targets is indeed annoying and there is no good solution for that at the moment.

You can force launch torpedoes, technically. If you have them set to safe or off, just switch them to aggressive whenever you want them to be fired. Bear in mind that your ships will have to take time to aim them if you had them turned off.

Thank you for the shortcut. About the tops i meant, firing blind in a selected area. (just at smoke for instance, with no ennemy visible).

[Latur Husky]

29 minutes ago, sarrumac said:

Thank you for the shortcut. About the tops i meant, firing blind in a selected area. (just at smoke for instance, with no ennemy visible).

But enemy is always visible in the smoke, it just gives you some negative modifiers to accuracy.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Asthaven

[sarrumac]

No, no, look again often they can't be seen and only a cloud is present.

[RedParadize]

I must have spent 500 16" shell on it just to get it from 12% to 6%, not even exaggerating. That ship only have a barbette and few casemate guns left above the waterline, but because I can't get on his side his engine and middle hull can't get hit. This is a bit annoying.